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Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential

AdamT

AdamT

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Hey, how about that! Governor Rick Scott has got his man: an Austrian-born Canadian gun afficianado. Out of the 180,000 "suspicious" Floridians scrutizined in the state's purge of voter rolls, ONE person has been recommended for prosecution in connection with voter fraud. Would a photo ID law have prevented this Canadian from voting? I suspect not, as he's also being charged with buying two guns from licensed firearms dealers, and lying on his application for a concealed carry permit. The former requires photo ID and the latter even requires finger printing!

TALLAHASSEE -- As the debate continues over whether or not to purge Florida’s voting rolls of potential non-citizens before the November elections, at least one person faces possible time in prison for voting illegally in 2008.Josef Sever, 52, a Canadian citizen born in Austria, pleaded guilty Thursday to illegally voting in the November 4, 2008, presidential election as a non-U.S. citizen, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. He also pleaded guilty to obtaining a firearms license by falsely claiming he was a U.S. citizen.

Sever, who lives in Plantation, faces up to five years in prison for the voting and gun-related offenses. Though his case offers evidence that immigrant voter fraud does exist in Florida, it is the only such case that has been investigated by state law enforcement this year.

“Sever stated that he was not a U.S. citizen and admitted that he had registered and voted in at least two U.S. presidential elections despite not being a U.S. citizen,” court documents show.
In court, Sever admitted that four different times, between 2007 and 2010, he bought firearms from a licensed dealer in Hialeah while claiming U.S. citizenship. He repeated the U.S. citizenship claim in 2010 when he renewed his Florida concealed weapons and firearm permit.

In early 2008, Sever registered to vote in Broward County, again stating he was a U.S. citizen and voted in the November 4, 2008, presidential election. He registered with “no party affiliation” on March 8, 2008. The statute of limitation for the federal offense of so-called “alien voting” is five years.

According to court records, Sever’s illegal voting was discovered during Gov. Rick Scott’s controversial push to identify potential non-citizens on voting rolls using information from the state motor vehicle agency. Though the Department of State amassed a list of 180,000 potential non-citizens registered to vote, it only sent one name —Sever’s — to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate criminally.

FDLE says it is currently investigating six total cases of voter fraud in a state of more than 11 million voters. Lawmakers, citing a widespread voter fraud problem, passed several measures to change voting processes last year. Critics bashed the changes — including a crackdown on voter registration drives and shortened early voting — as “voter suppression” and federal judges have blocked many of them.
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So it appears that these photo ID laws will prevent thousands of legitimate citizens from casting ballots, in order to snare ONE Canadian guy who probably would have voted anyway with the ID laws in place. So why are we doing this again? Florida's former Republican Party chairman has an idea....

In the debate over new laws meant to curb voter fraud in places like Florida, Democrats always charge that Republicans are trying to suppress the vote of liberal voting blocs like blacks and young people, while Republicans just laugh at such ludicrous and offensive accusations. That is, every Republican except for Florida’s former Republican Party chairman Jim Greer, who, scorned by his party and in deep legal trouble, blew the lid off what he claims was a systemic effort to suppress the black vote. In a 630-page deposition recorded over two days in late May, Greer, who is on trial for corruption charges, unloaded a litany of charges against the “whack-a-do, right-wing crazies” in his party, including the effort to suppress the black vote.

Fla. Republican: We wanted to suppress black votes - Salon.com
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Greer -- not the most trustorthy source of all time, but he was testifying under oath....
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

AdamT said:
So why are we doing this again?
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Hopefully we are doing it. And we're doing it because it makes sense.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
Hopefully we are doing it. And we're doing it because it makes sense.
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It makes sense, in your opinion, to prevent thousands of legitimate voters from casting ballots, in order to catch, in all probability, ZERO illegitimate voters? Could you explain your logic?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

AdamT said:
It makes sense, in your opinion, to prevent thousands of legitimate voters from casting ballots, in order to catch, in all probability, ZERO illegitimate voters? Could you explain your logic?
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I have absolutely no problem presenting my D/L to cash checks, open bank accounts, fly on a commercial airliner, enter my municipal swimming pool or golf course, withdraw money or any of the myriad ways my D/L allows me access.

So it stands to reason I would have no problem at all presenting a photo i.d. to vote. If people don't have D/L's, they should be provided state i.d.'s for free. I did not have to present my birth certificate to get my D/L. Nor to register to vote. My mom didn't have to present her birth certificate to get a state i.d.

It's not difficult. It's not unreasonable. And, frankly? If one isn't smart enough to get a photo i.d.? They probably shouldn't be voting anyway. And, guess what? They probably don't.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
Hopefully we are doing it. And we're doing it because it makes sense.
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This has always been a solution in search of a problem. Voila! We now have identified the problem - it's those sneaky damned Canadians playing games with our elections!:lamo
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

AdamT said:
It makes sense, in your opinion, to prevent thousands of legitimate voters from casting ballots, in order to catch, in all probability, ZERO illegitimate voters? Could you explain your logic?
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It does if those voters are - you know - Democrats!
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Wiggen said:
This has always been a solution in search of a problem. Voila! We now have identified the problem - it's those sneaky damned Canadians playing games with our elections!:lamo
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Your ass is going to fall off.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
I have absolutely no problem presenting my D/L to cash checks, open bank accounts, fly on a commercial airliner, enter my municipal swimming pool or golf course, withdraw money or any of the myriad ways my D/L allows me access.

So it stands to reason I would have no problem at all presenting a photo i.d. to vote. If people don't have D/L's, they should be provided state i.d.'s for free. I did not have to present my birth certificate to get my D/L. Nor to register to vote. My mom didn't have to present her birth certificate to get a state i.d.

It's not difficult. It's not unreasonable. And, frankly? If one isn't smart enough to get a photo i.d.? They probably shouldn't be voting anyway. And, guess what? They probably don't.
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That is not the point. The point is that the laws are supposedly intended to address a problem that is all but nonexistent, and that can be expected to prevent thousands of legitimate people from voting. The fact that YOU find it necessary or conventient to have a photo ID doesn't justify mandating that EVERYONE must have one.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Wow, one guy! Maybe if we get ID in all 50 states, we can prevent, like 70 illegal votes!

Interstingly, asa a gun afficionado, what were the chances of him voting for Obama? There goes that theory...
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

What are the arguments that make the case for voter ID laws being discriminatory and/or of a suppressing nature?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

I find it incredibly ironic that those who are crying and whining about unnecessary spending have no issue with forking out millions (billions?) for this voter ID card, just because since the year 2000, there's been a incidence of .000001 of documented voter fraud. Please, gimme a freakin' break. Amazing how gullible people are... :roll:
 
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Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Gonzo Rodeo said:
What are the arguments that make the case for voter ID laws being discriminatory and/or of a suppressing nature?
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Those pushing for these ID laws know full well that the elderly, the poor and the students will most likely not vote because of it. That is the sole reason. It has absolutely ZERO to do with voter fraud because voter fraud is about as common as a pig flying.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Gonzo Rodeo said:
What are the arguments that make the case for voter ID laws being discriminatory and/or of a suppressing nature?
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I don't necessarily buy into the discrimnatory nature. I think most people on both sides make the possibly mistaken assumption that most of these votes will go Democratic.

I'm against it because I think it's unnecessary. It's not very likely to prevent voter fraud, because the real issue is more likely with absentee ballots. Nobody checks those IDs.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Ok, why would this law discourage or prevent the elderly, the poor, and students from voting?
 
I don't want voter fraud but I don't obsess over it. I'd be ok if they phased in voter ID over 2 years. My understanding is that even a blatant fraud can still vote provisionally.

If any of the elections are close, I'm sure that person would have any number of citizens who would help convert their provisional ballot to a full one by helping to get the correct documentation. What are we talking about, maybe a dozen people in a few districts?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Middleground said:
Voter suppression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Where in that article does it detail exactly HOW voter ID laws target and suppress certain groups? I saw how these laws are commonplace in Europe, how some people claim it is a minor inconvenience that we already deal with for everything else, and how others claim it is discriminatory to some groups.... but no HOW. HOW is it discriminatory?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Sometimes, these discussions are very enlightening.

My initial reaction was that anybody can and should get ID. It's part of "responsible citizenship". But, maybe voting isn't relevant to responsibility and I see how this could be a partisan issue.

The only people with no ID are really generally the homeless. I know this is correct because I lived in SF for 18 months and got to know quite a few park (Golden Gate) junkies, hippies etc. They always lost their ID and other possessions.

If you're going to round up a busload of losers and take them to the polls for a free lunch in exchange for them voting, it's more of a Democrap tactic than a Repugnantcan tactic. So, it probably gives an advantage to the Democraps. As long as they really are US citizens, I suppose they are entitled to vote even if it's meaningless to them.

Since I'm a responsible (elderly) citizen, I have tons of IDs and I suppose I expect that of everyone. This year, when I go to vote, I will conduct a test by claiming I don't have ID but I'll insist on voting and see what happens to me. I've always been asked for ID but I always had ID. I'll report back here. I'm not poor BTW but I dress poor (cheapskate with 30 year old T-Shirts) so this should be an education.

I do think that ID should be free and easy to get just on GP. But that's another topic.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
I have absolutely no problem presenting my D/L to cash checks, open bank accounts, fly on a commercial airliner, enter my municipal swimming pool or golf course, withdraw money or any of the myriad ways my D/L allows me access.

So it stands to reason I would have no problem at all presenting a photo i.d. to vote. If people don't have D/L's, they should be provided state i.d.'s for free. I did not have to present my birth certificate to get my D/L. Nor to register to vote. My mom didn't have to present her birth certificate to get a state i.d.

It's not difficult. It's not unreasonable. And, frankly? If one isn't smart enough to get a photo i.d.? They probably shouldn't be voting anyway. And, guess what? They probably don't.
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What you've admitted to is disenfranchising people, that's the end of your argument right there. You don't get to decide under our system who's worthy of being able to vote.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Gonzo Rodeo said:
Where in that article does it detail exactly HOW voter ID laws target and suppress certain groups? I saw how these laws are commonplace in Europe, how some people claim it is a minor inconvenience that we already deal with for everything else, and how others claim it is discriminatory to some groups.... but no HOW. HOW is it discriminatory?
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Not everyone has a photo ID.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Gonzo Rodeo said:
Where in that article does it detail exactly HOW voter ID laws target and suppress certain groups? I saw how these laws are commonplace in Europe, how some people claim it is a minor inconvenience that we already deal with for everything else, and how others claim it is discriminatory to some groups.... but no HOW. HOW is it discriminatory?
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Selective reading, my friend.

Opponents argue that photo ID requirements disproportionately affect minority, handicapped and elderly voters who don't normally maintain driver's licenses, and therefore that requiring such groups to obtain and keep track of photo IDs that are otherwise unneeded is a suppression tactic aimed at those groups.[5]
Indiana's photo ID law barred twelve retired nuns in South Bend, Indiana from voting in that state's 2008 Democratic primary election. The women lacked the photo IDs required under a state law that was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in April 2008. John Borkowski, a South Bend lawyer volunteering as an election watchdog for the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, said, "This law was passed supposedly to prevent and deter voter fraud, even though there was no real record of serious voter fraud in Indiana."[6][7]
Proponents of a similar law proposed for Texas in March 2009 also argued that photo identification was necessary to prevent widespread voter fraud. Opponents respond that there is no evidence of such voter fraud in Texas, so no remedy is required, especially if such a remedy would decrease voting by senior citizens, the disabled, and lower-income residents. Opponents cited a study asserting that 1 million of the state's 13.5 million registered voters do not have a photo ID.[4]
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Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Gonzo Rodeo said:
What are the arguments that make the case for voter ID laws being discriminatory and/or of a suppressing nature?
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Because democrats say they are... Just like critisizing Obama makes you a racist.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Grim17 said:
Because democrats say they are... Just like critisizing Obama makes you a racist.
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Always the victim Grim.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Wiseone said:
Not everyone has a photo ID.
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The argument put forth was that it was specifically discriminatory to the poor, the elderly, and to students. Since the poor, the elderly, and students all have the same access to ID that I have, as well as fall under all the same laws that I do concerning requirement for ID (cashing a check, buying alcohol, entry to certain places, etc....), how, exactly, is requiring ID to vote in any way discriminatory?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Gonzo Rodeo said:
The argument put forth was that it was specifically discriminatory to the poor, the elderly, and to students. Since the poor, the elderly, and students all have the same access to ID that I have, as well as fall under all the same laws that I do concerning requirement for ID (cashing a check, buying alcohol, entry to certain places, etc....), how, exactly, is requiring ID to vote in any way discriminatory?
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Do you not think the poor, elderly and students are less likely than the rest of the population to have:
1) A driver's license
2) A passport

???
 
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