Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential

Schutzengel · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Maenad said:
So what you are saying is that Poughkeepsie is the only place the dead vote. Groovy!

no, I am saying that just in that one spot 2600 dead voted... sorry, you can't hear tone I agree with you

BWG · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Maenad said:
Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

From footnote 1 in your article...

The numbers do not indicate how much fraud is the result of dead voters in New York, only the potential for it. Typically, records of votes by the dead are the result of bookkeeping errors and do not result in the casting of extra ballots. The Journal did not find any fraud in the local matches it investigated.
[...]
In most cases, instances of dead voters can be attributed to database mismatches and clerical errors.

mike2810 · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

I personally have no problem with showing an ID to vote. States issue non driving ID's for those that don't drive.

For those that say requiring an ID would keep thousands from voting. Can you answer why the voting turnout is so pathetic in the US? Why do so many that could vote don't. Seems requring an ID, would make very little difference in the turnout.

BWG · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Kal'Stang said:
Someone took the time to register those names...why wouldn't they use them?

They originally register themselves. There is not a system in place to remove them after they die. They stay on the rolls because overzealous purging can result in legitimate voters being removed. Would you raise hell if you went to vote and were denied because you were mistakenly removed because your name might be similar or like someone who died? It's not some nefarious plot to subvert the system.

The logistics just aren't there to game the system with in person vote fraud.

BWG · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

mike2810 said:
I personally have no problem with showing an ID to vote. States issue non driving ID's for those that don't drive.

For those that say requiring an ID would keep thousands from voting. Can you answer why the voting turnout is so pathetic in the US? Why do so many that could vote don't. Seems requring an ID, would make very little difference in the turnout.

Exactly!!!

Why throw up unnecessary roadblocks to deter voting?

We should be spending all this time, money and effort to encourage people to turnout and vote. Not putting restrictions on 'get out the vote' drives or cutting back on early voting times or voiding certain types of ID.

Expand early voting to 5 days a week (Tue. - Sat) for two weeks, a month before the election, then 7 days a week the two weeks before the election. Everybody else that can't make those dates, let them vote absentee.

You want photo ID? Phase it in by the 2014 mid-term election or the next presidential election in 2016. In the mean time have people in place at the polls this year to take photos of those that don't have one, tie it to their voter registration card, verify them and send them to those peoples homes - free of charge. Through out the coming years you could have someone visit the local community centers, churchs or schools to get photos of the ones that missed going to the polls or new voters. There is no legitimate reason for one to declare photo IDs for this election "Emergency Legislation' - none.

frogloe · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

AliHajiSheik said:
Pretty remarkable that there are only 100 children in Florida. I remembered a lot of old people in Florida, and their parents, from when I lived there, but the demographics have clearly shifted.

Apparently my brain was only half functioning when I wrote that. :lamo

Kal'Stang · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

BWG said:
They originally register themselves. There is not a system in place to remove them after they die. They stay on the rolls because overzealous purging can result in legitimate voters being removed. Would you raise hell if you went to vote and were denied because you were mistakenly removed because your name might be similar or like someone who died? It's not some nefarious plot to subvert the system.

The logistics just aren't there to game the system with in person vote fraud.

Again I'm not sure about other states but in my state you have to register every election season. IE its not renewed each and every season. So sorry but your explanation doesn't hold any water.

Kal'Stang · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

BWG said:
No, but a sensationalized 'news investigator' had time to show himself knocking on a bunch of doors. If he really had some thing he could have shown just as many blurbs of 'I voted' - if he had had them.

All he had was jury summons saying they were ineligible to serve because they were non-citizens and their name also appeared on the voter rolls - NOT THAT ALL 100 VOTED.

Again...why register the names if they weren't going to vote? And you can't exactly use the "purge" explanation here since they never should have been registered in the first place. So whether those particular people voted or not is really irrelevent. The fact that thier names were registered to vote shows that fraud is going on.

BWG said:
I've read on these very pages as well as news sources that this would keep illegals from diluting my vote. They didn't give a percentage, so one would naturally default to 100%, though I didn't claim anyone said it would be 100% effective. In fact many have pointed out a flaw in requiring photo ID, is that it can be easily forged, if one is determined to cast an illegal ballot.

Easily yes...expensive though.

BWG said:
I merely pointed out that many of the voter registration were done during the process of getting an acceptable photo ID, as per the article.

What state allows you to register at the same time that you get an ID card? Much less done automatically without the knowledge of the people getting the ID. After all..if they are not truely wanting to vote then surely they know nothing about getting registered when they get their ID?

BWG said:
LOL...What was that you were just saying about strawmen? No one is saying it doesn't happen at all, just that that it is so small that it's statistically nil.

And his statement implied that it just doesn't happen at all.

Mason66 · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
I have absolutely no problem presenting my D/L to cash checks, open bank accounts, fly on a commercial airliner, enter my municipal swimming pool or golf course, withdraw money or any of the myriad ways my D/L allows me access.

So it stands to reason I would have no problem at all presenting a photo i.d. to vote. If people don't have D/L's, they should be provided state i.d.'s for free. I did not have to present my birth certificate to get my D/L. Nor to register to vote. My mom didn't have to present her birth certificate to get a state i.d.

It's not difficult. It's not unreasonable. And, frankly? If one isn't smart enough to get a photo i.d.? They probably shouldn't be voting anyway. And, guess what? They probably don't.

I have seen on this board and others that when the ID is offered for free then the argument shanges to the fact that the person has to wait in line.

I don't think it is too much to ask for somebody to go to the government office, no matter how far it is away from their house, and get the ID.

Mason66 · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Wiggen said:
This has always been a solution in search of a problem. Voila! We now have identified the problem - it's those sneaky damned Canadians playing games with our elections!:lamo

Do you think nothing should be done until after damage is done?

Can't an intelligent person see the potential for damage and try to prevent it?

I would like to close the barn door before the cow gets out rather than after.

Mason66 · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Republic Now! said:
Not even a student ID??

If you are a college student and don't have a student id, you had better stay in your room.

Mason66 · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Middleground said:
I dunno. But what I do know is that approx. 15% of Americans do not possess photo ID. That is fact, Jack.
Voter ID | Brennan Center for Justice

How many of that 15% are eligible to vote?

Wiggen · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Mason66 said:
Do you think nothing should be done until after damage is done?

Can't an intelligent person see the potential for damage and try to prevent it?

I would like to close the barn door before the cow gets out rather than after.

A solution in search of a problem, but a great way to disenfranchise the poor and minorities. Which, of course, is the point. Republicans don't even pretend otherwise.

Wiggen · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Mason66 said:
If you are a college student and don't have a student id, you had better stay in your room.

I'm guessing you'd be all in favor of a national identity card, so that bureaucrats could ask at any time to 'see your papers'. Kind of like one of those old movies about the Nazis, isn't it?

BWG · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Kal'Stang said:
Again I'm not sure about other states but in my state you have to register every election season. IE its not renewed each and every season. So sorry but your explanation doesn't hold any water.

Your state must be an anomaly. I'm not looking up every state, but a sampling...

Massachusetts

4. Do I have to re-register every year?

No.

.

Colorado

4. "DO I HAVE TO REGISTER EVERY YEAR?"

No

.

Texas

Don’t I just stay registered?

New certificates are mailed out every two years to the most recent address you gave to the voter registrar.

.

Alabama

Do I have to register for each election?

No.

.

New York

Once registered to vote, do I have to re-register every year?
No.

*Note - In each case there is more than a 'no', but basically, if your status doesn't change you don't have to re-register.

BWG · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Kal'Stang said:
Again...why register the names if they weren't going to vote? And you can't exactly use the "purge" explanation here since they never should have been registered in the first place. So whether those particular people voted or not is really irrelevent. The fact that thier names were registered to vote shows that fraud is going on.

Who knows why they filled out a voter registration form. Perhaps when they were getting their photo ID the form was in a pile of paper work and not knowing any better, they just filled out everything that was put in front of them.

Being registered and actually voting are two separate, independent actions.

Kal'Stang said:
Easily yes...expensive though.

I don't know the expense, but easily is the key, if someone's purpose is to commit fraud under penalty of the law.

Kal'Stang said:
What state allows you to register at the same time that you get an ID card? Much less done automatically without the knowledge of the people getting the ID. After all..if they are not truely wanting to vote then surely they know nothing about getting registered when they get their ID?

The National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA) (42 U.S.C. § 1973gg), also known as The Motor Voter Act, was signed into effect by United States President Bill Clinton on May 20, 1993, however, compliance did not become mandatory until 1995. The legislation required state governments to allow for registration when a qualifying voter applied for or renewed their driver's license or applied for social services.

Kal'Stang said:
And his statement implied that it just doesn't happen at all.

Implied? He pretty much said what I said - it is so small that it's statistically nil.

notquiteright · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Oklahoma doesn't require re-registering. Once is good enough for life as long as you keep the same home of record and vote either in person or absentee at the same polling station. (rural counties use the county seat, don't know about the 'big cities')

Now I KNEW those damn 'gun' loving Canucks were coming down here, buying weapons illegally and subverting our political system. :roll:

I see my RIGHT to vote the same way some strong willed 2nd A supporters feel the Constitution says they don't need permits to exercise their RIGHT to bear arms.

I don't see the Constitution having much to say about checking accounts, driving on public roads, fly on a commercial airline or the other crap some claim validates requiring ID to vote.

For some the Right to vote maybe the equivalent of cashing a check, I don't see it that way.

Mason66 · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Wiggen said:
A solution in search of a problem, but a great way to disenfranchise the poor and minorities. Which, of course, is the point. Republicans don't even pretend otherwise.

There is no proof that an ID card disenfranchises anybody. It is an excuse to not implement this program.

Mason66 · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Wiggen said:
I'm guessing you'd be all in favor of a national identity card, so that bureaucrats could ask at any time to 'see your papers'. Kind of like one of those old movies about the Nazis, isn't it?

Why does one equal the other.

If there was a national voting card, like in Mexico, why do you think the country would become like Nazi Germany?

Can't the police ask you for your ID now?

If you don't have a valid ID, do you know what happens?

notquiteright · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Mason-
most of those who back a voter ID program in THIS country don't have much nice to say about how Mexico does things.

The police do not have the right to just stop citizens and demand ID. They can fudge it a bit and say illegal lane change or walking the wrong way down a street, but first they have to have probable cause. Wanting to vote ain't it.

What they can do if they have probable cause a crime was committed and the suspect can produce no ID is hold the suspect for 72 hours.

But your argument is flawed, I don't need an ID to walk the streets, it isn't illegal. IF the cop wants to hold me, failure to produce an ID can hold me, but I have committed no crime.

Personally I don't see how anyone who holds the Constitution as a literal document claiming requiring a Government issued ID is what the Founders would have agreed to in order to vote.

Mason66 · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

notquiteright said:
Mason-
most of those who back a voter ID program in THIS country don't have much nice to say about how Mexico does things.

The police do not have the right to just stop citizens and demand ID. They can fudge it a bit and say illegal lane change or walking the wrong way down a street, but first they have to have probable cause. Wanting to vote ain't it.

What they can do if they have probable cause a crime was committed and the suspect can produce no ID is hold the suspect for 72 hours.

But your argument is flawed, I don't need an ID to walk the streets, it isn't illegal. IF the cop wants to hold me, failure to produce an ID can hold me, but I have committed no crime.

Personally I don't see how anyone who holds the Constitution as a literal document claiming requiring a Government issued ID is what the Founders would have agreed to in order to vote.

Did you see anywhere in my post where I said anything about a crime?

A police officer can ask you for your ID at any time for any reason. If you do not produce it they can take you in to verify your identity.

You stated that if the federal government issued IDs, in place of the states, the country would become like Nazi Germany.

Please explain why there is a difference between somebody having a state issued ID or a federal ID, and how that would make a police officer ask you for ID more.

notquiteright · Sep 3, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

I don't recall ever saying anything about Nazi Germany, did say I don't see where the Founders made a Government ID a requirement to vote.

Washington State law does not require giving an ID to police, merely name and address.

Nevada law only requires the giving of your name, not ID card.

There is no law requiring a citizen to carry ID.

A cop can detain if he has reasonable suspicion you engaged in a criminal act, and the devil loves that vague detail. Depends on the bail procedure, the court and how well the cop can articulate a reason for his suspicion.

Wiggen · Sep 4, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Mason66 said:
Why does one equal the other.

If there was a national voting card, like in Mexico, why do you think the country would become like Nazi Germany?

Can't the police ask you for your ID now?

If you don't have a valid ID, do you know what happens?

And people wonder how fascism could survive in a country with an educated population.

Mason66 · Sep 4, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

notquiteright said:
I don't recall ever saying anything about Nazi Germany, did say I don't see where the Founders made a Government ID a requirement to vote.

Washington State law does not require giving an ID to police, merely name and address.

Nevada law only requires the giving of your name, not ID card.

There is no law requiring a citizen to carry ID.

A cop can detain if he has reasonable suspicion you engaged in a criminal act, and the devil loves that vague detail. Depends on the bail procedure, the court and how well the cop can articulate a reason for his suspicion.

This is your quote "I'm guessing you'd be all in favor of a national identity card, so that bureaucrats could ask at any time to 'see your papers'. Kind of like one of those old movies about the Nazis, isn't it?"

That looks like a referrence to Nazi, granted I assumed the Germany part, to me.

notquiteright · Sep 4, 2012

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Mason-

My bad, now please address the state laws I posted about cops, IDs, and when they can require you produce them.

Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential

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