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Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
If one isn't smart enough to get a photo i.d.? They probably shouldn't be voting anyway.
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This is the entire defense of the ID movement, right there. The assertion that only stupid people don't have IDs. That somehow having ID is a necessary part of life that any competent person must have to get by. And over and over again, it's proven untrue. Plenty of competent, intelligent people simply have no need for IDs and don't get them. You cannot have a requirement to vote that says "you must live a similar lifestyle to mine." It's insane, it's unconstitutional, and it's just plain dishonest.

Also, don't forget that a lot of these laws require a valid ID from the state the person wants to vote in. Out of state IDs get turned away. So what about the sheer number of college students who go to school out of state but maintain their legal residence in their home state and thus have IDs from there? What have they done to deserve disenfranchisement?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Paschendale said:
This is the entire defense of the ID movement, right there. The assertion that only stupid people don't have IDs. That somehow having ID is a necessary part of life that any competent person must have to get by. And over and over again, it's proven untrue. Plenty of competent, intelligent people simply have no need for IDs and don't get them. You cannot have a requirement to vote that says "you must live a similar lifestyle to mine." It's insane, it's unconstitutional, and it's just plain dishonest.

Also, don't forget that a lot of these laws require a valid ID from the state the person wants to vote in. Out of state IDs get turned away. So what about the sheer number of college students who go to school out of state but maintain their legal residence in their home state and thus have IDs from there? What have they done to deserve disenfranchisement?
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First of all, before I forget, I don't know what the rules are, but if you keep your main residence in one state and live in another? You are supposed to vote in the state where you're registered as a main residence. Anything else is, or should be, illegal. Second, voter i.d.'s have not been shown to be unconstitutional across the board.

Who ARE?? these people who don't have state i.d.'s? How do they cash their paychecks? How do they drawn money out of the bank. Oh! You say. They don't have bank accounts. That still leaves an unanswered question: how do they cash their paychecks? Their Social Security checks? Their welfare checks? And how do they obtain welfare in the first place? And sign up for their Social Security benefits?

I'm seriously asking you: Who are all these people who don't have state i.d.'s??
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Schutzengel said:
there is a marked difference between no problem, and not being able to prove there is a problem... why would the DoJ fight to keep 182,000 illegals on the books in florida?
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You don't create regulations until you can prove there is a problem. What kind of libertarian are you? Not a very good one if you are advocating regulation without transgression.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

BWG said:
I don't believe the video shows what voter obstructionists believes it shows...:)

From the video, 100 was the number that was supposedly registered, NOT the number that admitted to actually voting, that number was 2.

The registration process seems to be the problem.
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So the news media has enough time to air all 100 people showing that they admit to voting? For those that deny it would they even be telingl the truth? Do you really expect them to find ALL the people that are not suppose to be voting? This is just ONE news station and ONE man that did the investigation. Yet he was able to find what several hundred other people apparently missed.

And no one is saying that a photo ID is 100% effective so you might as well just drop that strawman here and now. One of my favorite motto's is "What one man builds another can tear down". This applies to anything and everything.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

upsideguy said:
You don't create regulations until you can prove there is a problem. What kind of libertarian are you? Not a very good one if you are advocating regulation without transgression.
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I just showed you a video with the transgression happening.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

upsideguy said:
You don't create regulations until you can prove there is a problem. What kind of libertarian are you? Not a very good one if you are advocating regulation without transgression.
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I dunno I am trying to protect the integrity of the most important institution we have... I guess I get a little defensive about it.
 
frogloe said:
Florida has 18 million people living in it and only 100 were found to be unregistered? That is a staggering .000006% of the population. Sounds like an epidemic.
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Pretty remarkable that there are only 100 children in Florida. I remembered a lot of old people in Florida, and their parents, from when I lived there, but the demographics have clearly shifted.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

frogloe said:
Florida has 18 million people living in it and only 100 were found to be unregistered? That is a staggering .000006% of the population. Sounds like an epidemic.
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You dont get it do you ... in at least two of those cases they said they didnt vote, and one said he didnt know HOW to vote... which means someone registered him, and then voted FOR him... the dead vote... it has been documented,

Dead People Receive Ballots in NH Primary - YouTube

NC Non-Citizens Voting, Dead Offered Ballots, UNC Officials Embrace Voter Fraud - YouTube

No there is no voter fraud...

I mean this thread started with a case of actual voter fraud, EVERY citizen should be outraged at that.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

How many illegal Canadians do you think we have living in the US?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Middleground said:
I can bet you that many college students do not have any type of photo ID.
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Only those who don't drive and whose schools don't require them for library use, or for test purposes. I was require to have a photo ID when I took the MAT and the LSAT. The ACT was so long ago I don't recall if I had to have one or not.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Gonzo Rodeo said:
Do "minority, handicapped and elderly voters who don't normally maintain driver's licenses" ever cash checks or use a credit card? Do they make purchases of cigarettes, alcohol, or pornography? Do they literally have no situations in their lives that require the use of ID in any way?

Further, why is it only the minorities, elderly, and students who are discriminated against? What about the white, middle-aged males who don't drive?

In short, it's not a specific demographic that is "discriminated" against, if you can even use that word. Life in this country is exponentially harder without photo ID, and photo ID is ridiculously easy to obtain.



You are intentionally leaving off just regular old photo ID cards, issued by the same agency that issues drivers licenses. But that's really beside the point.

The poor - if they qualify for programs such as food stamps or welfare... don't they need photo ID to obtain those entitlements?

The elderly - they may not be eligible to drive anymore, or maybe never drove in the first place, but do they claim social security benefits? Don't they need photo ID for that? If they are Medicare consumers, don't they need photo ID at the hospital?

Students - assuming they do not drive, which is a vast minority of them, do they not have to cash checks, either from school aid, student loans, or mommy and daddy? And don't they have to have ID to enroll in school? Don't they have to have a state issued photo ID to get their school issued ID? I had to show my driver's license to get both my student ID and my parking pass. Mind you, they weren't checking to see if I was an eligible driver, they were checking to see if I was who I said I was so I could get the pass, because the pass is included in the price of tuition. Back when I had two cars, I was never ID'd for my second pass; it was simply a $10 fee.
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And then there is the under 21 set in colleges who get photo IDs to buy alcohol!
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Middleground said:
If you think that voter ID is the answer to preserving freedom, democracy and the sound American foundation, I have a bridge to sell you. For instance, do you realize how easy it is to hack a voting machine? LOL
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How many have you hacked?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

upsideguy said:
All nice, but entering your swimming pool is not a constitutional right. Moreover, there is a real reason for you to show ID to go you to pool, golf course or library, with the reason likely related to validating you as a taxpayer entitled to the preferred rate. Though I think the whole notion of showing ID to get on an airplane is silliness, it exists as a solution to a known and serious problem.

But, with voting, there is no problem. It is shocking to me that so many people have bought this bill of goods hook, line and sinker without any real evidence the problem exists in the first place. This is just voter suppression designed to help one political party as everyone knows is severely impacts the other party.

I also don't buy this argument that "if I can do it, anyone can/should do it". This is just narrow ego-centric thinking. You are but a data point of one, not representative of all members of each socio-economic group. There are lots of people that do not have (have zero reason to have) a picture ID.... they do not drive or fly or have any other reason ever to get driver's license. Curiously, they generally live in the city and may not participate in our economy the same way you or I do. They are often poor, elderly, minorities or disabled. They are often the people that are least able to go downtown to get the required ID, yet their right to vote is not less or greater than your or mine. This group also tends to vote democrat.

A real republican would loathe this as it is 1) unnecessary regulation (a solution for which there is no known problem) and 2) it is restriction fundamental Constitutional rights. Instead, they embrace it because they know it is targeted voter suppression and they are fundamentally hypocrites.

Sorry, but the idea of depriving someone of their Constitutional rights is appalling to me. It is shocking to me that so many people have bought the goods on this issue. What is voter fraud is the systemic repression of the citizen's right to vote just because they might not vote your way.
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They have to 'go downtown' to sign up for welfare. Living in the city, 'going downtown' isn't a real issue. Oh wait, the drug dealer makes house calls.

BTW: Did you know that in the wake of HIPAA anyone who goes to a doctor or hospital has to have two IDs? LOL. I just had a heart cath, and had to have two IDs to check in. One of my doctors even takes a picture of you while you are standing at the window. The camera is desguised as a little round decoration. LOL.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7213552_patient-identifying-information.html
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
You are easily appalled. On the other hand, I am appalled that someone can simply walk into a polling place, introduce themselves as John Smith and exercise the most important right our country offers. Those poor people you talk about? How do you think they get on entitlement programs? Just show up and say, "Hi, I'm John Doe. When can you start sending my checks?"

And if you are naive enough (which no one is) to believe that there is no voter fraud going on whereby people vote in the names of other people? I don't know what to say. If there is a way to cheat, people will cheat. Our politicians have proven time and again they cannot be trusted. Over and over again! To think that our Democratic politicians so radically oppose something as simple as a voter i.d. just proves they cannot be trusted. Again.
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Dead men don't wear plaid, but they DO vote! Report: 1.8M dead registered to vote - Mackenzie Weinger - POLITICO.com
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Fruityfact said:
Using your logic we shouldn't let people into the stores without I.D.
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The only way you can purchase anything in a store using anything but cash is to have proper ID.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Even if it were true that the number of illegal voters is very small you have to look at elections lately where the margin of victory is also very small. Every vote counts, let's make sure every vote is a legal vote. Do you people even remember the Florida vote controversy?

The study showed that if the two limited recounts had not been short-circuited -- the first by Florida county and state election officials and the second by the U.S. Supreme Court -- Bush would have held his lead over Gore, with margins ranging from 225 to 493 votes, depending on the standard. But the study also found that whether dimples are counted or amore restrictive standard is used, a statewide tally favored Gore by 60 to 171 votes."

Florida Recounts Would Have Favored Bush (washingtonpost.com)
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Maenad said:
Only those who don't drive and whose schools don't require them for library use, or for test purposes. I was require to have a photo ID when I took the MAT and the LSAT. The ACT was so long ago I don't recall if I had to have one or not.
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Hmmmm... I don't know about your college but the one I work at requires a photo ID and proof of residency to register... hhmmmmmm... I doubt many college students are without photo ID and if they dont have one, student services at least at my school issues them for free...
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Serenity said:
Their names are still in the registries but that doesn't mean anyone actually votes in their name.

Curious as to how many of them actually vote?
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The Wiki Maenad Linked to said:
When the Poughkeepsie Journal in New York did a 2006 analysis of how names of deceased people were still on New York's official list of registered voters, it conducted the assessment by matching "the names, dates of birth and ZIP codes of all listed voters in New York's database of 11.7 million voter registration records against the same information in the Social Security Administration's 'Death Master File,' a database of 77 million records of deaths dating to 1937." That study resulted in a final estimate of as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and that as many as 2,600 of them had cast votes from the grave.[1]
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thats 2600 votes from the grave, that's plenty to throw a close election one way or another... and that is just in Poughkeepsie...
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Serenity said:
Their names are still in the registries but that doesn't mean anyone actually votes in their name.

Curious as to how many of them actually vote?
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Someone took the time to register those names...why wouldn't they use them?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Kal'Stang said:
Someone took the time to register those names...why wouldn't they use them?
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I am genuinely interested Kal. We do things a little different down here in Australia and trying to understand both sides of the argument. I can see pros and cons for both.

When you say "someone took the time to register those names" is it not something that you would only do as a once off? Do you have to register each year?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Maenad said:
How many have you hacked?
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None. What's your point? Just because I have not, then it's impossible that others can't?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Maenad said:
The only way you can purchase anything in a store using anything but cash is to have proper ID.
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Actually gift cards work too :lamo
That's beside the point, you are nitpicking. Plenty of people buy store items with cash..
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
I don't get it. First of all, requirements to get a D/L aren't what's at issue here. Here's what's needed for an Illinois State I.D. :



Proof of residence can be an electrical bill made out in your name.
Everyone should have a Social Security Card.
Proof of date of birth. A birth certificate. What's so hard about that?
Proof of written signature. That could be a canceled check with your signature on it.

And, of course, if you have a D/L, you needn't do any of the above. We aren't talking about D/L's -- we're talking about State I.D.'s.
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The requirement for state ID and state DL are the same. You originally posted that you or your mother did not have to present a BC in order to get either of those.
The link I posted shows the requirements. Under column B in the requirements, a BC seems to be the easiest, but not always to provide.

That was my point. I used to live in the Chicago area, until moving to a VERY rural area I would think the same way.... easy, no problem, then I moved here.
 
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