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Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential

Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

MaggieD said:
I have absolutely no problem presenting my D/L to cash checks, open bank accounts, fly on a commercial airliner, enter my municipal swimming pool or golf course, withdraw money or any of the myriad ways my D/L allows me access.

So it stands to reason I would have no problem at all presenting a photo i.d. to vote. If people don't have D/L's, they should be provided state i.d.'s for free. I did not have to present my birth certificate to get my D/L. Nor to register to vote. My mom didn't have to present her birth certificate to get a state i.d.

It's not difficult. It's not unreasonable. And, frankly? If one isn't smart enough to get a photo i.d.? They probably shouldn't be voting anyway. And, guess what? They probably don't.
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Driver's License/State ID Card

So which form from Column B did you or your mother present to get the ID or DL in Illinois? Because for the first time applicant, you wouldn't have a prior photo ID to present.

I can tell you, being a recent transplant to another state, getting a new DL was horribly time consuming. And good thing I own my own car, because without it, I would have had an impossible time. This state would not accept my former states ID because the name didn't match precisely (used middle initial instead of full middle name)to my birth certificate. And my birth certificate, ofcourse had my maiden name on it, so that was another issue. Had to reapply for a Social Security card (because that too had my initial instead of full name) and a few other hoops to dance through in order to get a photo ID here.

In the end, it cost me almost 3 weeks of running around, phone calls and mailing. Can't say how many miles I put on my car because I now live in a very rural area and nothing is close by. (and public transportation does not exist here)

So, yeah, can see how these laws can greatly affect lots of people in a very negative way. How many would just give up their right to vote?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Grim17 said:
My point is unbelievably simple, and yet it still managed to go right over your head... Your argument is that there is almost no significant voter fraud, based on the small number of people who have been charged and convicted of doing so... This time instead of creating an example that might confuses you again, I will get right to the point:

Just because few people are getting caught, arrested and prosecuted for voter fraud, and crimes related to voter fraud, doesn't mean it isn't happening or the potential for it happening isn't there.

Here are a few examples:

Milwaukee
Minnesota
Philly
Detroit
Washington
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Houston
Florida
New York
Alabama
More...
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Does it mean it is happening either, and "might be" happening isn't good enough for me to support laws which may make thousands of people unable to vote when they otherwise legally could/

And if you're going to post stories about voter fraud to support these new photo ID laws, make sure at least that the stories involve fraud that could be potentially be stopped by photo ID laws. Some of your stories do, bust many don't.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

EyesWideOpen said:
Driver's License/State ID Card

So which form from Column B did you or your mother present to get the ID or DL in Illinois? Because for the first time applicant, you wouldn't have a prior photo ID to present.

I can tell you, being a recent transplant to another state, getting a new DL was horribly time consuming. And good thing I own my own car, because without it, I would have had an impossible time. This state would not accept my former states ID because the name didn't match precisely (used middle initial instead of full middle name)to my birth certificate. And my birth certificate, ofcourse had my maiden name on it, so that was another issue. Had to reapply for a Social Security card (because that too had my initial instead of full name) and a few other hoops to dance through in order to get a photo ID here.

In the end, it cost me almost 3 weeks of running around, phone calls and mailing. Can't say how many miles I put on my car because I now live in a very rural area and nothing is close by. (and public transportation does not exist here)

So, yeah, can see how these laws can greatly affect lots of people in a very negative way. How many would just give up their right to vote?
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I don't get it. First of all, requirements to get a D/L aren't what's at issue here. Here's what's needed for an Illinois State I.D. :

  • Proof of residence.
  • Proof of your social security number (SSN). If you have never been issued a SSN, you may be required to obtain one, or, if ineligible, provide a letter with a Social Security Administration letterhead dated at least 90 days prior to the application.
  • Proof of date of birth.
  • Proof of written signature.
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Proof of residence can be an electrical bill made out in your name.
Everyone should have a Social Security Card.
Proof of date of birth. A birth certificate. What's so hard about that?
Proof of written signature. That could be a canceled check with your signature on it.

And, of course, if you have a D/L, you needn't do any of the above. We aren't talking about D/L's -- we're talking about State I.D.'s.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Wiseone said:
Does it mean it is happening either, and "might be" happening isn't good enough for me to support laws which may make thousands of people unable to vote when they otherwise legally could
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Voter ID's don't prevent people from voting... Laziness does.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Grim17 said:
Voter ID's don't prevent people from voting... Laziness does.
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So this is what the debate has come to...
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

You leftist seem very concerned that feeble minded old people, drunks and drug addicts, mentally disabled and welfare recipients might not vote if voter ID is implemented. It shows who you think these people will vote for and that speaks volumes.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Fruityfact said:
So this is what the debate has come to...
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As I've already shown, it is not discriminatory to the poor or minorities:

Are the poor given free ID's if they can't afford them?

The answer is yes. In the Supreme Court decision in the Crawford v. Marion County Election Board case, Justice Stevens wrote in the majority opinion that:


"The relevant burdens here are those imposed on eligible voters who lack photo identification cards that comply with SEA 483. Because Indiana’s cards are free, the inconvenience of going to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, gathering required documents, and posing for a photograph does not qualify as a substantial burden on most voters’ right to vote, or represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting."​


That makes it quite clear that if states are going to require ID cards to vote, they must offer them free of charge so that those who can't afford them are not disenfranchised.

How does requiring an ID pose more of a burden to minority voters, than it does to majority voters?

The answer is, it doesn't. All citizens regardless of race, are issued the same legal birth certificates, the same citizenship papers, have access to the same government facilities and modes of public transportation, are charged the same amount of money for a legal ID if they can afford one, and both are offered one free if they can not.

Have you a better explaination than laziness?
 
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Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

EyesWideOpen said:
So, yeah, can see how these laws can greatly affect lots of people in a very negative way. How many would just give up their right to vote?
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Voting is not a right, it's a privilege.

Your post did make one thing clear however... That not voting because you don't have an ID is a persons choice. They either feel like it's worth their time, or they don't. Either way, ID's aren't to blame... They are.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Middleground said:
Those pushing for these ID laws know full well that the elderly, the poor and the students will most likely not vote because of it. That is the sole reason. It has absolutely ZERO to do with voter fraud because voter fraud is about as common as a pig flying.
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Can I ask why not? If they're willing to go out and vote, what stops them from being able to get a voter I.D.?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

sawyerloggingon said:
You leftist seem very concerned that feeble minded old people, drunks and drug addicts, mentally disabled and welfare recipients might not vote if voter ID is implemented. It shows who you think these people will vote for and that speaks volumes.
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These people have righs, too. Sorry that you don't like who they might vote for.

I think at least half of them would probably vote Republican like everyone else. Prove they won't.

I think it speaks volumes about the right that you don't care about these people's rights, and that you assume that because you deem them undesirable, they'l vot Democrat.
 
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Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

sawyerloggingon said:
You leftist seem very concerned that feeble minded old people, drunks and drug addicts, mentally disabled and welfare recipients might not vote if voter ID is implemented. It shows who you think these people will vote for and that speaks volumes.
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You need to take "welfare recipients" off that list, because they have to have a valid, legal ID to both apply for welfare, and to cash the checks every month.

:)
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Grim17 said:
You need to take "welfare recipients" off that list, because they have to have a valid, legal ID to both apply for welfare, and to cash the checks every month.

:)
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Had to at one time. Once you have benefits it can direct deposit and ID can expire with no trouble.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Redress said:
Had to at one time. Once you have benefits it can direct deposit and ID can expire with no trouble.
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So they at least had to obtain an ID initially to receive benifits... My question now is, why is requiring an ID for the poor to receive welfare benifits ok by the left, but requiring one to vote is seen as too heavy a burden?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Grim17 said:
They serve exactly the same purpose as the 26th amendment does. The constitution does not specify that voting is a citizens right. If it did, then states couldn't deny voting to convicted felons.

States have always been allowed to put certain rules and restrictions on voting. All the constitution does is state the methods that States can not use to restrict voting, in order to prevent discimination.

Voting is now and always has been a priviledge, not a right.
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So does that mean that owning a gun is not a right either? Unless the state reinstates the 'right' of the user, federal law bans convicted felons from possessing firearms.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

TitusAndronicus said:
So does that mean that owning a gun is not a right either? Unless the state reinstates the 'right' of the user, federal law bans convicted felons from possessing firearms.
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You are correct... I guess that was a bad example on my part.

But that doesn't change the fact that the constitution says people have the right to bear arms, but does not say that voting is a persons right.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Grim17 said:
You are correct... I guess that was a bad example on my part.

But that doesn't change the fact that the constitution says people have the right to bear arms, but does not say that voting is a persons right.
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WRONG. Almost all of the amendments related to new access to sufferage state "the right to vote". Amendment 15, 19, AND 26 all state that people will not be denied the right to vote based on circumstances. With your constitutional knowledge, I'm a little frightened that you have that right to vote too.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

frogloe said:
WRONG. Almost all of the amendments related to new access to sufferage state "the right to vote". Amendment 15, 19, AND 26 all state that people will not be denied the right to vote based on circumstances. With your constitutional knowledge, I'm a little frightened that you have that right to vote too.
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Please point out where exactly in the constitution it states that voting is a persons right?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Grim17 said:
Please point out where exactly in the constitution it states that voting is a persons right?
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I just cited three instances. What the heck more do you want from me? Just because it's not an amendment it doesn't mean its not a right stated.

Amendment 15:
SECTION 1.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Amendment 19:
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any States on account of sex.

Amendment 26:
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

Is there anymore fundamental American knowledge you'd like me to spoon feed you?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

frogloe said:
I just cited three instances. What the heck more do you want from me? Just because it's not an amendment it doesn't mean its not a right stated.

Amendment 15:
SECTION 1.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Amendment 19:
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any States on account of sex.

Amendment 26:
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

Is there anymore fundamental American knowledge you'd like me to spoon feed you?
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You are correct and I was wrong.

However it's not an unconditional right, as states are given the power to impose requirements and/or standards to vote. The various amendments in the constitution dealing with voting, were designed to prevent race, gender and class discrimination by dictating the things that can not be used by states to deny a person the right to vote. Requiring an ID to vote does not discriminate, as the 6-3 Supreme Court decision in the Crawford v. Marion County Election Board case concluded.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

AdamT said:
So it appears that these photo ID laws will prevent thousands of legitimate citizens from casting ballots, in order to snare ONE Canadian guy who probably would have voted anyway with the ID laws in place. So why are we doing this again? Florida's former Republican Party chairman has an idea....
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Explain this....

 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

frogloe said:
I just cited three instances. What the heck more do you want from me? Just because it's not an amendment it doesn't mean its not a right stated.

Amendment 15:
SECTION 1.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Amendment 19:
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any States on account of sex.

Amendment 26:
The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.

Is there anymore fundamental American knowledge you'd like me to spoon feed you?
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And in each and every single one of those the key word is CITIZENS.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

sawyerloggingon said:
That video pretty much wraps this thread up.Time for you leftist that want to steal elections to pack your bags and go home. :2wave:
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It pretty much shoots their argument that voter fraud isn't a problem down in flames.

That means they have only 3 choices: To either admit it is an issue that needs to be dealt with and support voter ID's, to continue to oppose voter ID's, showing everyone they actually do support voter fraud to get their candidates elected, or they can simply run away from this thread, which is the same as admitting they support voter fraud.

We'll see, won't we?
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

Grim17 said:
It pretty much shoots their argument that voter fraud isn't a problem down in flames.

That means they have only 3 choices: To either admit it is an issue that needs to be dealt with and support voter ID's, to continue to oppose voter ID's, showing everyone they actually do support voter fraud to get their candidates elected, or they can simply run away from this thread, which is the same as admitting they support voter fraud.

We'll see, won't we?
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Florida has 18 million people living in it and only 100 were found to be unregistered? That is a staggering .000006% of the population. Sounds like an epidemic.
 
Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

I don't believe the video shows what voter obstructionists believes it shows...:)

From the video, 100 was the number that was supposedly registered, NOT the number that admitted to actually voting, that number was 2.

The registration process seems to be the problem.

In some cases, human error got them on the voter rolls.

We found one Naples resident, who clearly marked she was not a U.S. citizen, but was registered anyway.

NBC2 Investigates: Voter Fraud - Part 2 - NBC-2.com WBBH News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, Florida
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Further in the above article....

But the NBC2 Investigators also found many of those registered were signed up while at the Tax Collector's Office getting a drivers license.
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Photo ID wouldn't help in that situation.
 
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