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Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

The Prof

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Japan's government is planning to suspend some state spending as it could run out of cash by October, with a deficit financing bill blocked by opposition parties trying to force Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda into an early election.

The impasse in Japan's parliament has raised fears among investors that the world's third largest economy is being driven towards a "fiscal cliff", Reuters reported.

"The government running out of money is not a story made up. It's a real threat," Finance Minister Jun Azumi told a news conference, making a last-ditch appeal for cooperation by opposition parties to pass the bill.

"Failing to pass the bill will give markets the impression that Japan's fiscal management rests on shaky ground," he said.

Unless the bill clears the current parliamentary session that ends next week, the government will start suspending or reducing some state spending to avoid running out of money for as long as possible, the finance ministry said.

Noda's ruling Democratic Party passed the deficit-financing bill through the lower house on Tuesday. But the opposition boycotted the vote, signalling the bill has little chance of clearing the opposition-controlled upper house.

Subsidies to local governments and state-run universities will be cut by half from the originally planned amount until the bill passes parliament, the finance ministry said.

Japan plans to cut state spending, could run out of money in a month - Telegraph

pm noda, it is interesting, is the expression of an upstart revolutionary outsider sentiment that is redolent in many ways of some pungent japanese tea flavor---reduction of a too big and corrupt and crony bureaucracy, a taxpayer and consumer constituency, civil service reform, a cut in the gas tax

noda is a kickboxer with a black belt

from sacto to springfield to washington dc, from brussels to athens to tokyo, with a lucky little flyover country between, there is no avoiding it

there's not enough rich to tax to stay it a day

what went wrong?
 
another opportunity to see how austerity works ... or doesn't
while being able to sit on the sidelines
 
How is this different than when the GOP held the US hostage over the deficit ceiling and it resulted in the S&P downgrade?
 
Nothing to do with not enough rich people to tax; everything to do with obstinate members of parliament and political gamesmanship. :) I would say I dont miss that, but it happens here too. Just seems to be the way of the world. Any leverage must be used as a sledgehammer against the opposition regardless of real world consequences.
 
another opportunity to see how austerity works ... or doesn't
while being able to sit on the sidelines

Waiting until the last minute to enact austerity always hurts more. As it should.
 
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I'll never understand why all these countries jeopardize their existence just to live on the credit card a little bit longer. Its an addiction.
 
Roughly 43% of all Japanese government revenue goes just towards debt servicing, they have the second worst debt to GDP ratio in the world (and getting worse), their stock market has been generally falling for decades and they have a rapidly aging population.

Japan is a mess.

Japan

That's what happens when you virtually abandon fiscal discipline for long enough.

Yea but there is a small issue there... most of that debt.. is to themselves... to their own citizens.
 
I'll never understand why all these countries jeopardize their existence just to live on the credit card a little bit longer. Its an addiction.

Its the American way of life. We all drank the cool aid spun by American economic theorists... some more than others.

But saying that, it is not like Japan has been in decline the last 20 years despite its high debt.
 
Yea but there is a small issue there... most of that debt.. is to themselves... to their own citizens.
That is a bad thing, not a good one.

A country can renege on it's debts to outside sources. It will cause many problems, but it is possible. Especially considering how powerful Japan is (and her military also, btw).

But a government can NEVER renege on debts to it's citizens or it can kiss getting re-elected goodbye and no one would EVER trust government bonds again. Which would be disastrous.


Look at Greece; far and away most of it's debt is owed to foreigners. And there has already been lots of talk in Greece of simply defaulting those debts, leave the Euro and go back to the drachma. And there is much support in Greece for that.
Sure, they will have great trouble getting more foreign loans. But it IS an option (and I believe the one they will eventually have to take) that is supported by the people (for obvious reasons).
Also, if they threaten default, all the foreign banks and institutions they owe money to will surely offer them great deals not to default since if they do not they risk losing the entire loan.
But none of this is an option if the money is owed to Greeks/Greek institutions.


You simply cannot default on loans from your countries people/institutions.

Out of the question - both politically and practically.
 
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I'll never understand why all these countries jeopardize their existence just to live on the credit card a little bit longer. Its an addiction.

It boggles the mind how monumentally ignorant/irresponsible these people are.
 
Japan has tried stimulus after stimulus since the 1990's and all have failed....To bad Obama didn't learn from them.
 
That is a bad thing, not a good one.

A country and renege on it's debts to outside sources. It will cause many problems, but it is possible. Expecially considering how powerful Japan is (and her military also, btw).

But a government can NEVER renege on debts to it's citizens or it can kiss getting re-elected goodbye and no one would EVER trust government bonds again. Which would be disastrous.


Look at Greece; far and away most of it's debt is owed to foreigners. And there has already been lots of talk in Greece of simply defaulting those debts, leave the Euro and go back to the drachma. And there is much support in Greece for that.
Sure, they will have great trouble getting more foreign loans. But it IS an option (and I believe the one they will eventually have to take) that is supported by the people (for obvious reasons).
Also, if they threaten default, all the foreign banks and institutions they owe money to will surely offer them great deals not to default since if they do not they risk losing the entire loan.
But none of this is an option if the money is owed to Greeks/Greek institutions.
You simply cannot default on loans from your countries people/institutions.


Out of the question - both politically and practically.

As long as you have the ability to print money.. then you wont. Greece cant print money, hence they have a problem on that front. Now of course not getting into such debts would be the best.

Plus in the end, defaulting to its own people, would only happen if the people started demanding the money, which they wont. They are too patriotic to do so, plus it is their savings which they at the moment dont need.

Point is, government debt is often blown out of proportions because of politics, not reality. The whole "sovereign debt debate" is utter bull****.. it always has been. When did it start? November 7th 2008. Before that, sovereign debt was only debated among economists at dinner parties because the theories were interesting talking points. Was the almost 10 trillion dollars under Bush or 3 trillion in 1980s under Reagan a "problem"? No it was not.. that was the going economic theory of the day.. Reaganomics!

But then a guy got elected into a house somewhere and the opposition saw that they needed a cause that would hurt this guy and make it possible to promote and continue the policies that they had been running for 20+ years. So the sovereign debt problem was invented. Its first target.. the US.. suddenly US debt numbers mattered and it was all the fault of this new guy and his people... it had not mattered a year before. And no one mentioned that most of the debt was in fact created by the very people and party (for the most part) that was now being critical of it... but hey, debt is easy to understand.. as are deficits... after all we all deal with this at our kitchen table right? And so was the Kitchen Table economists were born. And everyone forgot quickly not only who caused the economic crisis, but why and how.. because that was far too complicated to understand, but debt and deficit was much easier. And we have been there ever since, and not even punishing the very industries and people who caused the problems in the first place. Great switch and bait there. Even to this day, I would wager most American's dont know what caused the financial crisis, but they do know it is all Obama's fault...

Then this idea spread to centre right parties in Europe. Here they saw their chance of extending their rule, by evoking the debt problem.. creating a crisis and using that crisis to push through partisan economic policies they had wanted to do but had not had the balls or political will to do.... because it would cost them their power. And those few countries where the centre right did not rule.. of course exploited the situation to win power. And so came the "European Debt Crisis". With this excuse, cuts in the usual suspects started across the board.. healthcare, social programs.. all in the while they speculated in lowering taxes for the uber rich. Now only a few countries managed the latter, but it was attempted in most.

Of course the markets loved this, because there is nothing like a crisis to generate profits.. now that their money making machine of the US sub-prime mortgage market had gone belly up and driven their whole industry to the brink.. but now newly bailed out with tax payer money... CHA CHING! Lets exploit the fear coming from the kitchen table economics, that average people actually believe because it is so simple... not true, but simple. And they have been doing so ever since.. exploiting the markets for their own profit, while the rest of us suffer. That is why some countries were pushed off the edge and others were not. Playing the margins, with benefits for all.. profit or lower currency... screw the populations!

In the end of the day.. debt or deficits dont really matter in the overall picture. Governments have the ability to deal with such deficits and debts over time.... and it is this.. over time that is key. This economic crisis is what.. 4-5 years old? It was 20 years in the making. You just dont fix such things over night, but thanks to kitchen table economics... it is expected to be fixed by dawn almost. And it especially does not get fixed over night when one side of the political spectrum (left or right) is exploiting the situation to gain political power. I remember Denmark in the late 1970s. We were Greece. It took us over a decade to fix the problem.. hell it took us 30 years to pay off the debt accumulated. But it was done because the markets gave us time to deal with it. Now days.. pft, a country does not even get a half a year before the markets demand massive results.
 
As long as you have the ability to print money.. then you wont. Greece cant print money, hence they have a problem on that front. Now of course not getting into such debts would be the best.

Plus in the end, defaulting to its own people, would only happen if the people started demanding the money, which they wont. They are too patriotic to do so, plus it is their savings which they at the moment dont need.

The point was not if and or when they default.

The point was that they cannot EVER default on their own people (both politically and practically) but they can default on foreign owned debt.

So when people say that Japan has an advantage that it's own people/institutions own the debt, that is NOT an advantage...that is a disadvantage.


And patriotism?

No one is patriotic if they eventually are starving or about to be thrown out of their home because suddenly the government 'investments' they bought are suddenly declared worthless by that government. They just want their money.
This isn't WW2 when most Japanese thought Hirohito was a semi-god and they were so ignorant/brainwashed that they did almost anything he/the government said.


There is NO WAY the government will default on it's domestic held debt unless a) they have a political death wish, b) they are in a major war or c) they had a natural disaster about ten times worse then the March '11 tsunami.

You want to believe otherwise - go ahead.

I don't really care much.
 
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And? Are Japanese 75% poorer now? Are they starving on the streets? Have they lost the technology and manufacturing edge? No.
75% poorer? That is your standard?
Mine is are they better off? Are they poorer now?
They owe 2.2 times more then the ENTIRE GDP of their country. That is about 3 times worse then in 1990.
43% of every dollar they pay in taxes goes STRICTLY towards debt servicing - and it is getting worse every year.
Their stock market has lost 75% of it's value.

Yeah - I would say they are relatively poorer now then 20 years ago.

That is what massive government spending has given the Japanese people.

The Nikkei Index was in a massive bubble.. hence the bubble burst.

For twenty years? Bubbles don't take 20 years to burst. Check the chart...the Nikkei has been falling for decades.


Hey, you want to live in denial - go ahead.

Doesn't matter much to me.

So unless you have links to unbiased evidence that proves your points - I am moving on...life is too short to debate with closed minded people.


Have a nice day.
 
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they will have great trouble getting more foreign loans

anyone hundreds of B's underwater will have trouble getting ANY kind of loan

last wednesday: S&P Downgrades Illinois' Credit Rating | Fox Business

"investors in the $3.7 trillion us municipal bond market have been demanding higher yields for illinois debt as the state's fiscal problems fester"

it's amazing anyone would have to explain these things, like the need to breath air

it apparently requires zero thought to click "post quick reply"

oh well

seeya at the polls, progressives

such severe lack of perscipacity would preclude the winning of an election in boston
 
too patriotic to demand their money?

Greeks withdraw $894 million in a day - World News

Greeks pull cash out of banks as confidence wanes

Pressure builds on Spain's banks - Street Sweep: Fortune's Wall Street Blog Term Sheet

In Spain, investors watch for run on banks - Los Angeles Times

sovereign debt invented on 11-7-08 (LOL!):

david stockman, anyone?

the gipper STILL gets grief from his few remaining detractors

jfk and the "balance of payments deficit?"

franklin "deficit" roosevelt, who caved in 36?

taxing the uber rich?

yesterday: French pessimism nears all-time high -poll | Reuters

debt doesn't matter?

Japan could run out of money in a month - Telegraph

vote obama, 2012!

we'll just print more money!

LOL!
 
The point was not if and or when they default.

The point was that they cannot EVER default on their own people (both politically and practically) but they can default on foreign owned debt.

So when people say that Japan has an advantage that it's own people/institutions own the debt, that is NOT an advantage...that is a disadvantage.


And patriotism?

No one is patriotic if they eventually are starving or about to be thrown out of their home because suddenly the government 'investments' they bought are suddenly declared worthless by that government. They just want their money.
This isn't WW2 when most Japanese thought Hirohito was a semi-god and they were so ignorant/brainwashed that they did almost anything he/the government said.


There is NO WAY the government will default on it's domestic held debt unless a) they have a political death wish, b) they are in a major war or c) they had a natural disaster about ten times worse then the March '11 tsunami.

You want to believe otherwise - go ahead.

I don't really care much.

Dude, I said... the government wont default. You are the one going all nutso over the comment.
 
Dude, I said... the government wont default. You are the one going all nutso over the comment.

Riiiiight...check your post at post #15 (about 80% of which I skipped over, btw). Talk about going nutso?

Anyway, the above is not for you, it's for those with an open mind who do not know the situation.

I NEVER try and debate with (seemingly) closed minded people like you...waste of time.


Have a nice day.
 
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Riiiiight...check your post at post #15 (about 80% of which I skipped over, btw). Talk about going nutso?

Anyway, the above is not for you, it's for those with an open mind who do not know the situation.

I NEVER try and debate with (seemingly) closed minded people like you...waste of time.


Have a nice day.

Eh show me in post 15 where I say they will default? I in fact state they wont because of several reasons. /shrug.
 
what went wrong?

apparently, there was a minor problem with trickle down theory. the problem is that when the lower socioeconomic groups run out of money and credit due to lack of well-paying employment opportunities, the upper groups don't spend money widely enough to sustain an economic ecosystem. they then proceed to eat themselves, and the system progresses towards collapse.

that some are proposing that the solution is more trickle down is somewhat astounding.
 
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