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Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

Teachers are hired to turn out a product, that product being educated students. It is their job to educate. It is not their job to point fingers. If they are incapable of producing the product for which they have been hired, they need to be let go and someone who can produce better results brought in. At no point whatsoever though should a teacher who is failing to do their job get more money or more benefits. They haven't earned it.

So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.
 
Teachers are hired to turn out a product, that product being educated students. It is their job to educate. It is not their job to point fingers. If they are incapable of producing the product for which they have been hired, they need to be let go and someone who can produce better results brought in. At no point whatsoever though should a teacher who is failing to do their job get more money or more benefits. They haven't earned it.

Who told you that? You really should a job description. Children are not shoes, or cars, or anything you build on a assembly line.
 
Teachers are hired to turn out a product, that product being educated students. It is their job to educate. It is not their job to point fingers. If they are incapable of producing the product for which they have been hired, they need to be let go and someone who can produce better results brought in.

that is simply dumb and silly. Teachers are professionals. It is part of the job of a professional to point out systematic defects and liabilities which could prevent the successful carrying out of their duties.
 
Who told you that? You really should a job description. Children are not shoes, or cars, or anything you build on a assembly line.

what is of concern is the necessity for you to have to explain something so obvious
 
on teaching? knowledge of subject matter is NOT the emphasis of teacher education

i remember when you used to pass yourself off as a small college dept chair which was always impossible because of your inability to spell

And you would be wrong.

BTW, I never took teacher education. But I have passed my subject matter.
 
School: Teacher Helps Students Cheat Because She Says They’re ‘Dumb As Hell’ « CBS Atlanta

bush and teddy kennedy's nclb tied school funding to student performance

i was there, it changed the yearly emphasis in every school district in CA away from pushing global warming and cooperative ed to a breakneck effort to get test scores up

i have never seen teachers work so hard as i have since the passage of nclb

every year a district establishes an emphasis, a sorta mission statement decided by the supt and her curriculum specialist who mobilize and promote their yearlong campaign thru back-to-work teacher rallies and more pointedly school inservices in an attempt to get educators to buy into whatever is being pushed and employ the district's recommendations in daily instruction

i remember about 1995 when the entire emphasis of a very large school district in the south bay where i worked was all about the promotion of tolerance---that is, our number one goal for the year was to get staff and more signficantly our student bodies to respect and accept our open and still closeted gay fellows

which is all fine and good, except the kids couldn't add fractions, didn't know where massachusetts was, and had no idea what came first, ww1 or the civil war (among many other lapses)

after nclb all these nonsensical and brazenly political wastes of time were abandoned as we all concentrated our efforts to get math and reading test scores into the black so our funding wouldn't be taken over by hostile outside forces (like mr bobb's emergency management of the openly corrupt and incompetent detroit public schools)

"literacy" was a push that lasted several years, it meant teaching kids how to read their textbooks---use the index, follow the graphic organizers, appreciate the purpose and value of the summary boxes...

"literacy," in my opinion, was one outstanding district wide emphasis

i make 80K, i work 181 5-hour days per year

teachers start low on the pay scale and get an automatic 1200 to 1500 dollar raise every year for 12 years simply by virtue of returning to their jobs

my highest stress (i'm in a relatively safe district) these days is mostly hyphy young ladies with "tood," they like to talk back to teacher, they like to "act out"

they remind me of the jerry springer show

compared to real adults and real professions with real performance demands, my job in my opinion is a piece of cake

i sincerely believe public school teachers are overpaid and underworked, my job really is a blast

most teachers i know over the age of 60 are sitting on estates worth close to, even over, a million dollars, we own by now our homes outright, we have fat 401k's on top of our plush strs pensions, we retire early, we spend our summers traveling, rose gardening and engaging in very personally rewarding home improvement projects

in a high school staff of 120 it is remarkable how many experts i know on fascinating topics of esoteric diversity---a friend writes a local column on horse racing, another wrote a 1000 page history of the oakland raiders, another is trying to get on jeopardy, another is a culinary king

these people are fascinating, they are trained physicists and historians, musicians and basketball coaches, it is extremely rewarding to work with such intersting people, many lifelong friends

it is extremely politically incorrect to say, but it is my experience that my industry is dominated by professionals who happen to be female and i have always asserted that ours is an extremely complaining industry

at staff meetings, the men tend to sit together and pass notes about bible history or the greatest middle linebackers the nfl ever saw while the women up front raise their hands and...

if i hear mrs bartlett one more time usurp the time and attention of all 120 of us to regale us yet once more about some fascinating (to her) interaction she had with a special needs student in 1979, i think i'm gonna puke

but i won't, i'm a professional so i will restrain myself

mrs bartlett is a wonderful person, truly saintly, and one outstanding world lit teacher, the kids eagerly respond and thrive in her class, she was teacher of the year

if i were in her class, tho, i'd gag---so much sentiment, so much getting in touch with feeling

more power to her and her kids, whatever works

her husband willy is slowly and tortuously dying of colon cancer, everytime i see her i remember to express my love and concern, their nephew travis was in my math class

for a year i called this strapping young defensive end "honey" in motherly tones like he was some dear little precious

how ya doing, honey, i'd coo, and he'd respond as if i'd called his name---he and one bored to death pre calc class found it very amusing (i did too), but you probably had to be there

i love mrs bartlett, we have worked together for more than a decade

she thinks she's underpaid, she makes a little more than i

of course, she's got her clad

americans want REAL school reform, obama is only more of the same status quo, his education stump must therefore backfire

the guy's an idiot, independent thinkers question how he ever got into columbia (cutting classes and smoking choom, as he says), let alone harvard

why won't he show his transcripts?

mrs bartlett loves obama, she thinks i do too

party on, y'all
 
So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.

Lots of times, it's all they can get. Personally, I'd never go working in the ghetto, but then again, I'm qualified to work in better places. I earned that right. They have to earn that right too. They have to prove they can succeed so they're qualified to go elsewhere. Whining about the bad conditions isn't success.
 
that is simply dumb and silly. Teachers are professionals. It is part of the job of a professional to point out systematic defects and liabilities which could prevent the successful carrying out of their duties.

Sure, there are some systematic problems, one of which happens to be the teacher's union, and those problems absolutely, with no question, need to be addressed. That said, you don't get to whine your way out of doing the job you signed up for, then ask for a raise. These teachers' jobs are to convince the kids to learn, then to teach them. If they cannot convince them to learn, they have failed at 50% of their job right off the bat.

It's like being a salesman. Your job is to convince people to buy your products. If you can't convince anyone, it's insane to go to your boss and demand a raise because you're not doing the job you've been hired to do. You can't expect every single person you talk to to already be convinced to buy. If that was the case, anyone could do it.
 
Sure, there are some systematic problems, one of which happens to be the teacher's union, and those problems absolutely, with no question, need to be addressed. That said, you don't get to whine your way out of doing the job you signed up for, then ask for a raise. These teachers' jobs are to convince the kids to learn, then to teach them. If they cannot convince them to learn, they have failed at 50% of their job right off the bat.

It's like being a salesman. Your job is to convince people to buy your products. If you can't convince anyone, it's insane to go to your boss and demand a raise because you're not doing the job you've been hired to do. You can't expect every single person you talk to to already be convinced to buy. If that was the case, anyone could do it.
very weak comparison
if someone is shopping your product, then that is a tip off that they have a need and an inclination to purchase your item or a competitor's
if someone is in the classroom, you can tell them all the reasons why they need to learn, but if they are not interested, no amount of cajoling is going to make learning happen
 
Sure, there are some systematic problems, one of which happens to be the teacher's union, and those problems absolutely, with no question, need to be addressed. That said, you don't get to whine your way out of doing the job you signed up for, then ask for a raise. These teachers' jobs are to convince the kids to learn, then to teach them. If they cannot convince them to learn, they have failed at 50% of their job right off the bat.

It's like being a salesman. Your job is to convince people to buy your products. If you can't convince anyone, it's insane to go to your boss and demand a raise because you're not doing the job you've been hired to do. You can't expect every single person you talk to to already be convinced to buy. If that was the case, anyone could do it.

I can see from your remarks that you are NOT a teacher.
 
So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.

You have identified the problem. The quality of education and educators is supposed to be evenly distributed. The union rules of seniority prevent this. However, the unions will never admit this and the low performing schools are the card the union plays when it comes to salary increases.

A L
 
The link is from a staunchly conservative organization that believes instruction on global warming is "indoctrination." I just thought I'd put that out there.

It's value is as the only true data base for Illinois teachers' salaries and pensions.

Maggie - your source clearly indicates that these ARE NOT the normal duties of the teacher nor are they the normal union recommended activities for teachers.

You are badly confusing a temporary and suggested list of ways to find breaking the union with what the union and teachers have been doing for fifty or more years.

I don't understand this post.

Please do not accuse of me dishonesty. That is no foundation on which to build a fruitful discussion. As I said, I believe that tenure could be more efficient in some areas. Just because I do not see it as problematic as you do does not mean that I am being "dishonest." On the contrary, it means that we disagree.

Then, in that case, I will call it bias.


The word "vouchers" is not an argument nor a demonstration of the veracity of an argument. Please show why teacher's unions say they are against vouchers, what their counter proposals are and why vouchers are better for students than their counter proposals.

What are their counter-proposals? And why are they better than letting parents decide where to send their children to school? When CPS only graduates 50% or so of its students, something's got to happen. Fast. Whole generations of kids are being left behind.

I've already provided links where the head of the Chicago Teacher's Union showed that they are bargaining on behalf of student interests in addition to their own interests. In addition to that, CTU leaders have given several interviews where they've explained that as well. Why is this insufficient for you?

Air conditioning, more librarians and social workers is not the answer. It is insufficient to me because it's insufficient. At minimum, 40% of kids in CPS are failing. Paying teachers more, more librarians, more social workers, and air conditioning is hardly the answer.

They have presented a plan for evaluation system.

Here is the plan: http://www.ctunet.com/quest-center/research/text/cps-framework/CPS_Final_Offer.pdf

Here is more information on the plan and their work with CPS to develop one: Chicago Teachers Union | Teacher Evaluation[/url


Get back to me when there's one in plavce.

in June based on what CTU is proposing.

If that's the way you see it, I have no problem with that.

Please demonstrate that CTU "are greedy pigs interested only in making sure they promote divisiveness between teachers and the school system to protect their own jobs." And please demonstrate how you are not, then, calling a significant amount of teachers "greedy pigs" since the majority of teachers voted to authorize a strike.

Teachers in five schools (IIR) agreed to work longer days last year having been given IPods as token appreciation for doing what private industry has done for the last 4 years -- work a little longer and harder. As you know, the union blasted and negated that agreement and threatened to sue the district. Those teachers (and, in fact, two in my family who are teachers) had no problem with it at all. But. The union couldn't stand their power being usurped. And, now, here we are.

Actually, CPS should have respected the fact that it was out of money by not increasing the length of the school day, particularly since there is no demonstrable benefit to the students for doing so. I mean, how much sense does that make?

I agree with you.

that is simply dumb and silly. Teachers are professionals. It is part of the job of a professional to point out systematic defects and liabilities which could prevent the successful carrying out of their duties.

I agree with this as well.
 
It's value is as the only true data base for Illinois teachers' salaries and pensions.



I don't understand this post.



Then, in that case, I will call it bias.




What are their counter-proposals? And why are they better than letting parents decide where to send their children to school? When CPS only graduates 50% or so of its students, something's got to happen. Fast. Whole generations of kids are being left behind.



Get back to me when there's one in plavce.



If that's the way you see it, I have no problem with that.



Teachers in five schools (IIR) agreed to work longer days last year having been given IPods as token appreciation for doing what private industry has done for the last 4 years -- work a little longer and harder. As you know, the union blasted and negated that agreement and threatened to sue the district. Those teachers (and, in fact, two in my family who are teachers) had no problem with it at all. But. The union couldn't stand their power being usurped. And, now, here we are.



I agree with you.



I agree with this as well.

it's called "past practice"
if there are work rules in the contract, and the employer unilaterally changes one or more of them, and the union does not object, then the union gives up its right to challenge further revisions to that contract provision because - by the union's inaction - it has already accepted the earlier changes as "past practice"
as a result, the union has to be vigilant about such things, otherwise it renders the affected contract provisions as no longer binding and enforceable whenever the union knowingly fails to enforce the negotiated contract provisions
(this is also true for the employer; if it allows employees to do things not provided by the terms of the contract, it cannot later enforce those provisions as they will have been accepted and established as "past practice")
arcane and nuanced, but true
 
It's like being a salesman

i very strongly agree

if, in my opinion, you want to have any chance of teaching math, for example, in this day and age, you gotta incent

the way i've done it all my career is---you better try (every single one of you) your very hardest to do these 8 problems right---or i'll just assign 80 and you can go ahead and flunk

of course, every class you've ever had is gonna try you---so BUST em, NOW and HARD

yes, it's sales

math is very hard to sell, but PERSONALITY's a blast

if i can't come up with a little myself i can always find a kid

i don't think i've ever had a class without at least a couple student's whose personalities i could promote
 
it's called "past practice"
if there are work rules in the contract, and the employer unilaterally changes one or more of them, and the union does not object, then the union gives up its right to challenge further revisions to that contract provision because - by the union's inaction - it has already accepted the earlier changes as "past practice"
as a result, the union has to be vigilant about such things, otherwise it renders the affected contract provisions as no longer binding and enforceable whenever the union knowingly fails to enforce the negotiated contract provisions
(this is also true for the employer; if it allows employees to do things not provided by the terms of the contract, it cannot later enforce those provisions as they will have been accepted and established as "past practice")
arcane and nuanced, but true

That makes absolutely perfect sense to me. Then 'splain why, instead of some reasonable salary hike request, the union wants 24% over two years for the same thing?
 
My daughter went to a public charter school where teachers were allowed to do their own thing. Pay no higher or lower than other teachers. Same class sizes per students. A very small school physically and in student numbers. The teachers each had to teach multiple different topic classes, including those not of their field. No teachers union, no administator oversight. Overall, the per student budget was signficantly lower than the regular public school.

Thus, the students should have done dismal.

In fact, they won exactly every area of science fair, from science to math, environment to computer science, medical to engineering - literally every single category. Yet they aren't 1/100th of 1% of total school population.

Why is that?

It is because the school's sole administrator not only was selective in who he selected as teahers - not hesitating to get rid of any not doing the job - but he also was teaching classes himself.

Teachers who wanted to teach - and none otherwise - given total power to actually teach as each saw fit and right for each class and each student. This lead to strong bonding of mutual goals between teachers and students for the goal of LEARNING - and being able to prove it. The students thought so highly of their teachers that making their teachers look good by their performance was one motivator, and the teachers openly measured their success and pride in how well their students did.

And there is a kicker. SO UPSET at that success, the overall school administration vetoed, literally BANNED those students participating in national science fair - because they made the regular schools and the administration look so bad by those student's successes - literally torpedoing the student to cover up their incompetency.

The first thing schools should consider doing is firing all school administrators and just letting the teacher run everything for a couple years and see how it goes. At one time, that's how schools worked. Before grossly overpaid zippy pinhead socialists and ideological hacks became the overseers and masters.
 
Overall, Charter schools perform no better than public schools. Also, they actually should perform better because most are selective, cutting losse any student who might bring down their scores. And still, overall, they perform no better. This should raise some doubts about them.
 
So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.

There really is no incentive for teachers to go to some schools, other than they have the heart of a social worker. Even then, it is not hard for teachers to get totally frustrated in some of those schools.

Constant disruptions, no means of disciplining students, work in areas that have higher number of deaths each year than the military does in combat zones, have to work with parents who don't care and only use the school system as a daycare, the school has security and cops all over and has more in common with a prison than a school.

Even if you paid teachers for those types of schools double others, you still are only going to get those who cannot get hired at a different schools and they will probably only stay until they do get another position. Frankly, anyone who would actually work in those schools very long has a heart of gold, but the brains of a gnat.
 
So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.

In Chicago, the incentive is student loan forgiveness for X number of years spent teaching in inner-city schools. A good deal, if you ask me. BTW, there is no shortage of teachers in Chicago Public Schools even though they have, at best, a 60% high school graduation rate and schools that are little more than war zones.
 
That makes absolutely perfect sense to me. Then 'splain why, instead of some reasonable salary hike request, the union wants 24% over two years for the same thing?

isn't 24% the percentage of additional time they will be working

soon after i retired a former client recruited me. i refused to work more that three days per week (60%) and refused to accept less than 60% of the salary received at the time of federal retirement. that seemed fair to all parties, which causes me to conclude that the union's opening offer is not unreasonable. the question now becomes, can the school system afford it
 
isn't 24% the percentage of additional time they will be working

soon after i retired a former client recruited me. i refused to work more that three days per week (60%) and refused to accept less than 60% of the salary received at the time of federal retirement. that seemed fair to all parties, which causes me to conclude that the union's opening offer is not unreasonable. the question now becomes, can the school system afford it

No, actually. The school board agreed to hire on more teachers in light of their 24% demand. They haven't withdrawn it. And no again, the school system cannot afford it. One of the reasons is that the teachers' pension fund uses an 8% income assumption -- ridiculous -- which, of course, falls way short every year causing the school board to have to over-fund in the tens of millions of dollars.
 
they won exactly every area of science fair, from science to math, environment to computer science, medical to engineering - literally every single category

the premium is on student effort, the crisis is the lack of student effort, the only solution is somehow to get them to try as hard as we, their teachers, do

in my class, if they don't i bust em---early, often and now

8 problems where every single one of you tries as hard as he or she can to get it right---

or i'll assign 80 and the rest is on you, do your math or flunk, i'll answer your questions

way too many kids slouch around school these days, hella cool, wearing a sign on their foreheads, reading: work is for other people, but i'm as entitled to air conditioning as anyone else because, you don't understand, it's hot
 
I think we've mostly discovered that a students achievement is mostly related to their home situation.
So why are we extending schools hours and why should we pay teachers more, when the effects of both, at best, will be marginal.
 
My daughter went to a public charter school where teachers were allowed to do their own thing. Pay no higher or lower than other teachers. Same class sizes per students. A very small school physically and in student numbers. The teachers each had to teach multiple different topic classes, including those not of their field. No teachers union, no administator oversight. Overall, the per student budget was signficantly lower than the regular public school.

Thus, the students should have done dismal.

In fact, they won exactly every area of science fair, from science to math, environment to computer science, medical to engineering - literally every single category. Yet they aren't 1/100th of 1% of total school population.

Why is that?

It is because the school's sole administrator not only was selective in who he selected as teahers - not hesitating to get rid of any not doing the job - but he also was teaching classes himself.

Teachers who wanted to teach - and none otherwise - given total power to actually teach as each saw fit and right for each class and each student. This lead to strong bonding of mutual goals between teachers and students for the goal of LEARNING - and being able to prove it. The students thought so highly of their teachers that making their teachers look good by their performance was one motivator, and the teachers openly measured their success and pride in how well their students did.

And there is a kicker. SO UPSET at that success, the overall school administration vetoed, literally BANNED those students participating in national science fair - because they made the regular schools and the administration look so bad by those student's successes - literally torpedoing the student to cover up their incompetency.

The first thing schools should consider doing is firing all school administrators and just letting the teacher run everything for a couple years and see how it goes. At one time, that's how schools worked. Before grossly overpaid zippy pinhead socialists and ideological hacks became the overseers and masters.

I mostly agree. However, in the Dim state that Uncle Joe is from, charter schools get to cherry pick their students. The rif-raf and slugs go to the public schools ... Of course the best and brightest will always out perform the slugs.

About firing the public school administrators ... you are 98.5% correct. The administrative PC crowd needs to go. The schools need what they lack. They lack REAL DISCIPLINE. The Catholic schools have it ... and it works fine for them.

A L
 
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