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GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

I said "logic and not rhetoric." Do you have any here?
Sorry, your original statement
"I've always had trouble figuring out why conservatives hate clean energy. It's like they WANTED the Volt to fail."
you used rhetorical words like hate and wanted.
I don't think many actually hate clean energy, or want dirty water or air. That is just election speak.
I am not sure you can answer a question based on emotion with logic.
Many people find it offensive to be told they have to change how they do things.
 
I've always had trouble figuring out why conservatives hate clean energy. It's like they WANTED the Volt to fail.

If anyone could explain any logic and not rhetoric behind this, I'm all ears. :)

Hybrids are not clean energy. Neither are electric cars. Try again.
 
Current nuclear construction times are far shorter than that (bold is mine).
Economics of new nuclear power plants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry, but oil prices are determined on the intl market. More drilling in the US will have little effect on gas prices.

Oil Prices Are Determined in the World Market: It's Not Just Something That President Obama Says | Beat the Press

And here's 20 experts that will tell you more domestic oil drilling will not help:


20 Experts Who Say Drilling Won't Lower Gas Prices | ThinkProgress

(1) I'll concede that at least on paper, restrictions on nuclear have been eased. A few have been approved. No new or expanded are as yet on line as far as I know.
Time will tell whether other restrictions will be put in place, or whether we are looking at an example similar to the Canada La pipeline. I hope you are right.

(2) I never said that we are not part of the worldwide energy market. Thatwe are is true. What is not true is the notion that because we are now a part of the world market that increasing supply will not lower costs. If, somehow we did increase energy output (not necessarily oil) to the point that US prices were so low that other world suppliers would no longer sell us energy, would that not indicate that we have won the decades old quest to make ourselves energy independent? Let France and Japan buy their energy from the mideast at $100 a barrel, while we are paying $50, and watch the jobs return home. If, due to low prices we become a supplier to the rest of the world, then the market would tend to level out, but at a price lower than the present prices. That's how the market works. If we do produce more than we can use, why is that a bad thing? The only possible reason that then the "alternate" market would fall on its face. Already, NG prices have fallen to the point that some nuclear projects have been postponed as being non economical.

The bolded statement just makes no sense. Of course, if new drilling produces more product, it will increase world supplies, which will drive prices down. How much depends on the increase in world supply and demand.
 
I've always had trouble figuring out why conservatives hate clean energy.
It's not a hatred of it, most of them are not viable replacements as they stand. When the technologies catch up and perform better sure they'll be accepted but they are woefully inefficient. Couple of things that are problems right now 1) Clean energy has to be subsidized to stay on the market because it doesn't have a large share and for it's costs the return isn't preferable 2) Hybrids have been shown through studies to put out higher levels of pollutants such as lithium dust which can threaten water tables and effect toxin levels in runoff. 3) Hybrids have a lousy return of initial price at the backend due to the price of a new battery and maintenence of the braking systems. 4) It's hard to get a mechanic to work on a hybrid and 5) Electric cars are insufficient for extended travel.
It's like they WANTED the Volt to fail.
It was a certainty, as I stated earlier the Volt was originally conceptualized around '07 during the Bush administration and I knew it was a bad idea then. The concept was better than the released version(That's usual) but even the concept was woefully lacking in everything but looks. There's nothing political in my statements against that car but rather I love the GM brand and was concerned that they were gonna eat that turkey.
If anyone could explain any logic and not rhetoric behind this, I'm all ears. :)
Once tech catches up the market will embrace alternatives, till then it is wasteful to subsidize less productive alternatives and economically damaging. I think there is a better way, first I'd like to see magnetic motors be more thouroughly researced, they can theoretically produce the torque and power required to replace FF powerplants, and if done right can have multiple times the range, they are incredibly efficient. As well I would love to see hydrogen tech take off as I think that has great potential, but wind, solar, electrical, and hybrid are just not there.
 
The Volt is actually the first true series hybrid.

An electric car with an auxilliary generator for long trips.

Diesel locomotives are similar.

Other hybrid techs are less efficient, basically regular cars with an elwctric assist.

But its ugly like a butt. Generic and nondescript.

Tech win. Style fail.

ou forgot

Demand. Fail

Why build a car nobody wants nor asked for?
 
I'm going to have to disagree with Mr. Ewanik on that. The Ford owners I know are diehard Ford guys, and buy Fords simply because they love Ford. I've had to drive Chevy's before, and it's easy for me to see why their sales are down. It has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with Chevy cars being big ole pieces of ****. The only thing they make that's worth a damn is the Silverado, but even those have been lacking in quality recently. Just let them fail, they aren't the only automaker in the world.

Recently?

10 Char
 
It does seem that way, but there is no reason a hybrid could not be a big 4X4 truck with lots of
giddy-up. A hybrid could also be an incredible sports car with all wheel drive and full low end torque.
If done right, we would have to rethink all of the conventional wisdom about cars.

There are numerous smokin'-fast electric and hybrid cars ... for a price.

Here's a wheel-motor series hybrid ... that gets to 60 mph in under THREE seconds: http://mashable.com/2011/05/06/electric-jaguar-supercar/

and this one, among others: Electric Supercar Blows Doors Off Tesla : Discovery News
 
What I'm saying is, how many of you would buy a hybrid, of any brand, if they cost, say, 16K?

What car costs 16K now hybrid or regular?

A decent car is 20k and up now.
 
Try the Highlander Hybrid. It's actually faster than the V6 gas-only version, gets 10 mpg better in the city in about 5 mpg better on the highway. We've had one for six years and it's an excellent vehicle.

How much extra did it cost over the comparable straight gas version?
 
GM is reported to have a cost advantage of $1000 per vehicle over Ford. Provided GM can continue to bring out competent vehicles that sell well (GM is number 1 or 2 for world wide sales) it should not need a bailout. Lets not mention the fact it is making as much money as Ford is.

Please don't mess up the right wing rhetoric with facts. GM must fail or Obama is not a socialist agitator. That's what happens when you paint yourself into a corner
 
ou forgot

Demand. Fail

Why build a car nobody wants nor asked for?

From what i understand, interest was high until they decided to neuter the aesthetics.

So styling is hurting it, NOT the technology.

How many different hybrids does toyota offer now? 5-6?

And of course lets bot forget the overall condition of the economy.
 
(1) I'll concede that at least on paper, restrictions on nuclear have been eased. A few have been approved. No new or expanded are as yet on line as far as I know.
Time will tell whether other restrictions will be put in place, or whether we are looking at an example similar to the Canada La pipeline. I hope you are right.

(2) I never said that we are not part of the worldwide energy market. Thatwe are is true. What is not true is the notion that because we are now a part of the world market that increasing supply will not lower costs. If, somehow we did increase energy output (not necessarily oil) to the point that US prices were so low that other world suppliers would no longer sell us energy, would that not indicate that we have won the decades old quest to make ourselves energy independent? Let France and Japan buy their energy from the mideast at $100 a barrel, while we are paying $50, and watch the jobs return home. If, due to low prices we become a supplier to the rest of the world, then the market would tend to level out, but at a price lower than the present prices. That's how the market works. If we do produce more than we can use, why is that a bad thing? The only possible reason that then the "alternate" market would fall on its face. Already, NG prices have fallen to the point that some nuclear projects have been postponed as being non economical.

The bolded statement just makes no sense. Of course, if new drilling produces more product, it will increase world supplies, which will drive prices down. How much depends on the increase in world supply and demand.

The links I supplied above refer ONLY to oil, not energy in general. Oil markets are affected by, but not solely influenced b,y supply and demand. If France and Japan are paying $100/barrel, then that's what we pay, even if the oil is drilled domestically. That's the way the oil markets work. Things like gasoline and coal and NG are priced differently and more along the lines of basic supply and demand. So gasoline (made from oil) could get lower domestically if we overproduced, but oil prices would only be minimally effected. We do have a lot of oil, but comparing that quantity to the entire rest of the world, it's not that much. So more of our own oil won't change prices so much.

Now I do like NG. We should try to use it more. We've got a lot of it and the price is cheap. I like the idea of replacing our coal plants (and selling the excess coal to China) and using NG instead.

The thing I like about EVs is their source power could be damned near anything. When first using EVs, we might use a lot of coal. 10 years later, we're using more NG, but even the old EVs still work just fine. 10 more years and we might have more nuclear power. Doesn't matter. Even the old EVs can still work with it. Anything that produces electricity works just fine with EVs. Current ICE cars ONLY work with gasoline/diesel. Whereas EVs function with any source. See the advantages?
 
From what i understand, interest was high until they decided to neuter the aesthetics.
Nope, it was actually nothing more than a blip. The automotive media was interested in it because it was an American hybrid but most people didn't even know about the car much less demand it.

So styling is hurting it, NOT the technology.
It's both. The styling for the concept looked aggressive and was cut down. The promises of mileage didn't pan out and GM looked dishonest and a bit stupid, causing a perception problem in an already low demand vehicle.
How many different hybrids does toyota offer now? 5-6?
WHich don't outsell any other car offered in class.

And of course lets bot forget the overall condition of the economy.
Had nothing to do with the Volt. GM is selling other cars, which are outperforming the Volt by leaps and bounds in the market.
 
Well, you can keep your HumVee. Enjoy it. I think Minis rock!

Wouldn't drive a piece of crap Hummer either, but thanks for your concern.
 
Nope, it was actually nothing more than a blip. The automotive media was interested in it because it was an American hybrid but most people didn't even know about the car much less demand it.

It's both. The styling for the concept looked aggressive and was cut down. The promises of mileage didn't pan out and GM looked dishonest and a bit stupid, causing a perception problem in an already low demand vehicle. WHich don't outsell any other car offered in class.

Had nothing to do with the Volt. GM is selling other cars, which are outperforming the Volt by leaps and bounds in the market.

I was going by reviews and comments when it first came out. We were interested, but its just too ugly.

Many comments i read were in the same vein.

Great machine in an ugly box.

I know y'all dont like it, but series hybrids are where we're going to end up as we transition off fossil fuels.

Electric drives provide an ultimate benefit. They dont care where the electeicity comes from, they just use it more efficiently.
 
Recently?

10 Char

The mid 90's isn't too far back. They hold up a lot better than the new **** GM is churning out. They should be allowed to fail, let new competition develop, grow and breathe some fresh new life into our automotive industry.
 
I was going by reviews and comments when it first came out. We were interested, but its just too ugly.

Many comments i read were in the same vein.

Great machine in an ugly box.

I know y'all dont like it, but series hybrids are where we're going to end up as we transition off fossil fuels.

Electric drives provide an ultimate benefit. They dont care where the electeicity comes from, they just use it more efficiently.
You've got to understand something about the reviewers, they aren't unbiased and look to sell ads, most people didn't even know about the Volt until it went into production. Reviewers will give a thumbs up to a flawed vehicle to get ad revenue from a company, they've been doing just that for years. The only positive comments I have ever seen on the Volt came from car mags notorious for having little integrity, the Detroit auto show which is becoming a joke, and GM themselves(No surprise they will try to sell their product). Frankly, you can keep hybrids, and the market doesn't want them, they pollute more than fossil fuel vehicles which is confirmed, they have higher maintenance costs, confirmed, and they are underpowered.
Now, if you want to talk about where the electricity comes from.................fossil fuels.
 
Well, you can keep your HumVee. Enjoy it. I think Minis rock!

A man of discerning tastes. My everyday ride is a Mini-S -- the older supercharged version which I prefer over the Turbo.

Amazing what you can cram into those little cars. This
morning I brought home a new lawn mower from Home Depot ... with inches to spare! Got a Weber gas grill in there once.
 
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So, somebody who doesn't drive a tiny overpriced economy car must drive some giant gas guzzling tank of a truck?

Especially since Mini is realizing they can't stay in business making toy cars, they're starting to make bigger cars and vans now.
 
LOL... Did you read the article at all?

"We are not idling the plant due to poor Volt sales. We're gearing up for production of the new Impala,"

Heck, did you even read the title of the article?

"GM: Chevy Volt output break due to Impala retooling"

{facepalm}

If they are retooling for the new Impala, then are they stopping production altogether of the Volt?
 
If they are retooling for the new Impala, then are they stopping production altogether of the Volt?

That is exactly what I came away with. The volt is dead, the idea to stop making them for a period of time is eyewash. It's a PR way to ease it to the public "The Volt is dead"
 
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