• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

sawyerloggingon said:
It's good to know who and what your enemy is. These "people" would spread this so called religion world wide if they had the opportunity. Sometime I think we should get out of Afghan and other times I think we should nuke the whole damn mid east and kill this cancer.

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Insurgents beheaded 17 civilians in a Taliban-controlled area of southern Afghanistan, apparently because they attended a dance party that flouted the extreme brand of Islam embraced by the militants, officials said Monday.
The killings, in a district where U.S. Marines have battled the Taliban for years, were a reminder of how much power the insurgent group still wields in the south — particularly as international forces draw down and hand areas over to Afghan forces.
The victims were part of a large group that had gathered late Sunday in Helmand province's Musa Qala district for a celebration involving music and dancing, said district government chief Neyamatullah Khan. He said the Taliban slaughtered them to show their disapproval of the event.


17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party - Yahoo! News
Click to expand...

All the more reason to defund them almost entirely by getting off of crude and establishing energy independence. Kind of hard to spread such barbaric ways if you don't have the money to.
 
First you need to split al-Queera from the taliwhackers.

al-Queera amongst the offended folks who see a corrupt regime 'defending' the Holy Lands that needs to stop indulging in wanton lifestyles at the expense of the average citizen. They fight a near enemy, but have to drive off the far enemy from propping up the royal bags of self indulgent ****.

taliwhackers from the majority Pastuns and hardliners who first see western culture as poison, and then western powers attempting to dictate how to run their own nation after centuries of doing it their way.

That you and I don't sing their praises doesn't mean there are not folks who do.

The English didn't praise the IRA bombers, and had a very dim view of Americans to include politicians who donated to the IRA.
 
poweRob said:
All the more reason to defund them almost entirely by getting off of crude and establishing energy independence. Kind of hard to spread such barbaric ways if you don't have the money to.
Click to expand...

Defund who? The Afghan civilians that are being oppressed by the Taliban?

Yeah, that'll teach em a lesson - stop getting oppressed and beheaded or else!
 
notquiteright said:
First you need to split al-Queera from the taliwhackers.

al-Queera amongst the offended folks who see a corrupt regime 'defending' the Holy Lands that needs to stop indulging in wanton lifestyles at the expense of the average citizen. They fight a near enemy, but have to drive off the far enemy from propping up the royal bags of self indulgent ****.

taliwhackers from the majority Pastuns and hardliners who first see western culture as poison, and then western powers attempting to dictate how to run their own nation after centuries of doing it their way.

That you and I don't sing their praises doesn't mean there are not folks who do.

The English didn't praise the IRA bombers, and had a very dim view of Americans to include politicians who donated to the IRA.
Click to expand...

I did exactly that by defining their separate forms of terrorist acts but I ask again. Who's freedom are your so called "freedom fighters" fighting for?
 
You seem intent on defining the terrorists as all the same, several of your past posts do claim they are 'branches on the same tree'

al-Queera for the religious freedom of their Holy Lands in Saudi Arabia with a more equitable sharing of the oil money with a removal of the corrupt puppet regime.

taliwhackers for freedom of western interference in their internal domestic affairs, and curbing of bandit warlords.

You maynot see that as freedom fighters but many other folks do.

You suffer from Imperial Hubris, the inability to see our own repressive acts while attempting to conform the world to a standard we don't even live by.
 
notquiteright said:
You seem intent on defining the terrorists as all the same, several of your past posts do claim they are 'branches on the same tree'

al-Queera for the religious freedom of their Holy Lands in Saudi Arabia with a more equitable sharing of the oil money with a removal of the corrupt puppet regime.

taliwhackers for freedom of western interference in their internal domestic affairs, and curbing of bandit warlords.

You maynot see that as freedom fighters but many other folks do.

You suffer from Imperial Hubris, the inability to see our own repressive acts while attempting to conform the world to a standard we don't even live by.[/QUOTE]

So in your opinion we had it comin by these Alquiada freedom fighters that want nothing more than America to get out of Saudi. If we do that they will be happy and terrorisim will end.:roll:
Click to expand...
 
notquiteright said:
Diogenes-
You REALLY need to go learn about our Revolution in the South- brutal, vicious, no quarter offered to man or woman as long standing feuds were settled under the guise of fighting the War.

Of course you skip right over the IRA and other 'Christian' Terrorist groups....

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter...
Click to expand...

You really need to do better than that. Merely parroting old slogans is a poor debating effort.
 
I dunno-
seems highly effective since your rebuttal is to say, "don't do that." hardly an effective response. :mrgreen:

You don't want to address the IRA issue do you. The support this country gave the bombers and assassins in the IRA would be seen as unconscionable if Nigeria was supporting the New Black Panthers like that.

Nor do you want to address the Revolutionary War brutality in the South.

Just want to complain about-

"one man's Freedom Fighter is another's Terrorist"

true that... ;)
 
notquiteright said:
I dunno-
seems highly effective since your rebuttal is to say, "don't do that." hardly an effective response. :mrgreen:

You don't want to address the IRA issue do you. The support this country gave the bombers and assassins in the IRA would be seen as unconscionable if Nigeria was supporting the New Black Panthers like that.

Nor do you want to address the Revolutionary War brutality in the South.

Just want to complain about-

"one man's Freedom Fighter is another's Terrorist"

true that... ;)
Click to expand...

So tell me how the jihadis have ever brought freedom to anyone. Start with how the Taliban, after winning their civil war in Afghanistan, brought freedom to the people.
 
notquiteright said:
I dunno-
seems highly effective since your rebuttal is to say, "don't do that." hardly an effective response. :mrgreen:

You don't want to address the IRA issue do you. The support this country gave the bombers and assassins in the IRA would be seen as unconscionable if Nigeria was supporting the New Black Panthers like that.

Nor do you want to address the Revolutionary War brutality in the South.

Just want to complain about-

"one man's Freedom Fighter is another's Terrorist"

true that... ;)
Click to expand...

There is a glimmer coming through that the Taliban may not be fully enjoying the backing of the population,

"These 15 civilian and two women were killed allegedly for having contact with the government," Ahmadi said. "The enemy is afraid, because people are increasingly rising up against them and people want them to leave their areas. I think [the people's] plans were discovered."

17 Afghans Beheaded In Helmand; Afghan And ISAF Troops Also Killed

Though the details are still a little unclear.

Paul
 
I explained the concept to Sawyer, is the best I can do. YOUR standard of freedom isn't universal.

Now answer this
The IRA- terrorists or freedom fighters and does allowing so many US citizens to openly support bombers, murderers and thieves mean we supported terrorism or freedom so close to our long time ally England?
 
notquiteright said:
You suffer from Imperial Hubris
Click to expand...


....and you suffer from a politically correct form of cultural self-loathing.

At the end of the day, however, the both of you are far more similar than you are different since your extreme dogmatism is of a nature that is long on conformity and short on independence.
 
Gunner-
it is my hope that once we leave Afghanistan a more moderate system of governance will prevail. It won't be western democracy by any means, but hopefully enough years have past since the Roosian invasion that over armed warlords are reduced in power, and theocratic organizations are not so old school.

One thing for sure, the decade, lives and money we spent in Afghanistan will not return our investment well. But no place in Afghanistan's history has western intervention ever paid off, or for that matter really changed their progress to the better.

One other thing, we could stay in Afghanistan for another decade, bomb and drone strike the crap out of it and where ever in Pakistan we think 'they' are hiding and the end result will be so similar to right now it would make grown men cry. (especially the fathers who's sons died in the process of 'westernizing' Afghanistan)

I do hope for something other than extreme thugs who use a warped version of a Faith to dominate a society will prevail in Afghanistan-

Just think the Taliwhackers would have been deposed by now anyway, Afghanistan doesn't seem to tolerate any leader for very long.
 
notquiteright said:
Gunner-
it is my hope that once we leave Afghanistan a more moderate system of governance will prevail. It won't be western democracy by any means, but hopefully enough years have past since the Roosian invasion that over armed warlords are reduced in power, and theocratic organizations are not so old school.

One thing for sure, the decade, lives and money we spent in Afghanistan will not return our investment well. But no place in Afghanistan's history has western intervention ever paid off, or for that matter really changed their progress to the better.

One other thing, we could stay in Afghanistan for another decade, bomb and drone strike the crap out of it and where ever in Pakistan we think 'they' are hiding and the end result will be so similar to right now it would make grown men cry. (especially the fathers who's sons died in the process of 'westernizing' Afghanistan)

I do hope for something other than extreme thugs who use a warped version of a Faith to dominate a society will prevail in Afghanistan-

Just think the Taliwhackers would have been deposed by now anyway, Afghanistan doesn't seem to tolerate any leader for very long.
Click to expand...

I was in favour of the Afghanistan campaign and viewed it very different from Iraq. If they never took their eye of the ball, and pulled most of the resources, we would most probably be home by now. I fully agree our definition 'of what Afghanistan should look like,' is very different from what many envisaged (though I feel that expectation has subdued some what). The Taliban drove an already disparate-Tribal-society to a new level of barbarism. If left unchecked? That is the million dollar question, but I feel it would have remained a launch base for OBL jihadi fighter's.

Because of early policy failures (man-power/ resources/infrastructure) then our sacrifices are hard to stomach. The recent spate of Blue on Green are a reminder of how potent (as an insurgency force) the Taliban remain. As you rightly point out NO foreign power has truly conquered Afghanistan, but if the correct policy at the early stages had been implemented who knows what could have been accomplished?

Paul
 
Gunner-
I take a different, more cynical view. We could have sat with whatever level of troops we could muster in Afghanistan and still be no further down the democracy road. Not farther down the stable society road. No farther down the women are people too road.

Smack the crap out of the taliwhackers for harboring al-Queera I can see, revenge and harsh punishment is ingrained deeply in our western culture, especially when the bad guy doesn't look or act much like us. Rip the country a new one from top to bottom. Show every warlord to shepard just how powerful the taliwhackers really are and how easily the USofA can stomp a mudhole in them.

My thought, after seeing just how quickly the Talis cut and run, the warlords who accepted the ass bites so easily will not a second time around. I sort of like notching the tree and letting the first strong wind do the work when it comes to 'fixing' other nations.

Far fewer US lives lost, and billions not spent.

Now when Afghans attack coalition forces. I'd hesitate to call them all Taliban, anymore than a white guy shooting a black guy is a KKK incident. Personal slights, grudges, and local warlord agitation could have far more to do with a disgruntled trainee shooting our troops. My take is even if the Taliban was beat down and out, rivalries between warlords and their disdain for a central government would have a violent, easy to use base for shadow warriors/terrorists/drug traffickers.
 
notquiteright said:
I explained the concept to Sawyer, is the best I can do. YOUR standard of freedom isn't universal.

Now answer this
The IRA- terrorists or freedom fighters and does allowing so many US citizens to openly support bombers, murderers and thieves mean we supported terrorism or freedom so close to our long time ally England?
Click to expand...

I really don't see how you can compare the IRA to Alquiada or the taliban. The IRA was a terrorist organization but they were about getting the UK out of Ireland so they could have self rule. The taliban wants the US out of Afghanistan not for self rule but so they can oppress the people of Afghanistan, I see no freedom fighter comparison there. Alquiada pretty much wants America out of existence because they detest everything we stand for and in their wack job minds they have a world domination fantasy . They would like to see Wahabbiisim rule the world, I see no freedom fighter comparison there.
 
Your peeling the onion, the Irish terrorists bombed, and murdered innocent civilians to make themselves the political leaders of Ireland. Many US citizens and politicians were quite vocal in their support of these murderers. In Western Civilization murdering innocent civilians and your political rivals isn't justifiable at all. England isn't the taliban, killing civilians wasn't called for at any time in Ireland.

Nice try... :roll:

al_queera wants us out of the Middle East, only a few whack jobs in the West think they won't stop until they 'destroy' us. (whack job is an intellectually weak slur to throw at those who want to fight us, no need to call al-queera whack jobs)

If al-queera REALLY wanted extreme Islam spread across the world they sure suck at convincing 1.2 billion or so fellow Mooslims. Epic logic fail.

taliwhacker want the US out of Afghanistan so they can continue their rule, same as the Scottish kings kept wanting the English out of Scotland, not to free all scots but to be able to rule them.

You use 'freedom fighter' in way too narrow a definition. Freedom from outside interference... THAT freedom is universal... :peace
 
The middle East is a disturbing place. Have you seen this video? IF not watch it but be warned, its kinda graphic.


Moderator's Warning:
Link has been removed due to graphic nature.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
notquiteright said:
Your peeling the onion, the Irish terrorists bombed, and murdered innocent civilians to make themselves the political leaders of Ireland. Many US citizens and politicians were quite vocal in their support of these murderers. In Western Civilization murdering innocent civilians and your political rivals isn't justifiable at all. England isn't the taliban, killing civilians wasn't called for at any time in Ireland.

Nice try... :roll:

al_queera wants us out of the Middle East, only a few whack jobs in the West think they won't stop until they 'destroy' us. (whack job is an intellectually weak slur to throw at those who want to fight us, no need to call al-queera whack jobs)

If al-queera REALLY wanted extreme Islam spread across the world they sure suck at convincing 1.2 billion or so fellow Mooslims. Epic logic fail.

taliwhacker want the US out of Afghanistan so they can continue their rule, same as the Scottish kings kept wanting the English out of Scotland, not to free all scots but to be able to rule them.

You use 'freedom fighter' in way too narrow a definition. Freedom from outside interference... THAT freedom is universal... :peace
Click to expand...

By your definition Hitler was a freedom fighter, he just wanted the freedom to rule Europe.
 
Now your just being absurd.

Taliwhackers don't want to rule all the Stanlands, they want us the hell out of THEIR country.

al-Queera wants US out of Saudi and to quit propping up the corrupt regime, they will travel to fight the US and support Mooslim groups around the world but to tie us down and dilute our ability to fight in the Middle East. Propaganda aside neither al-queera nor the taliwhackers have the ability to do more than isolated terrorist attacks outside their regions.

Nazi Germany was seen as freedom fighters when they first invaded the Baltic States and the Ukraine. Many from those states fought with Germany against the Soviets. Glad to see you have read WWII history about the battles in the East. ;)
 
notquiteright said:
Now your just being absurd.

Taliwhackers don't want to rule all the Stanlands, they want us the hell out of THEIR country.

al-Queera wants US out of Saudi and to quit propping up the corrupt regime, they will travel to fight the US and support Mooslim groups around the world but to tie us down and dilute our ability to fight in the Middle East. Propaganda aside neither al-queera nor the taliwhackers have the ability to do more than isolated terrorist attacks outside their regions.

Nazi Germany was seen as freedom fighters when they first invaded the Baltic States and the Ukraine. Many from those states fought with Germany against the Soviets. Glad to see you have read WWII history about the battles in the East. ;)
Click to expand...

That isn't really accurate though. Firstly because its difficult to talk about the Taliban as a cohesive organization today, and secondly because of past precedent. In the 1990's towards the tail end of their hold on power (which was quite short) they provided support to the Islamic Movement for Uzbekistan (IMU) as well as a bastion for Tajik Islamists. They were more than willing and Mullah Omar proved eager to acquiesce to requests for safe harbor and training for groups who often worked in tandem with al-Qaeda to further their efforts in their home countries.
 
notquiteright said:
Now your just being absurd.

Taliwhackers don't want to rule all the Stanlands, they want us the hell out of THEIR country.

al-Queera wants US out of Saudi and to quit propping up the corrupt regime, they will travel to fight the US and support Mooslim groups around the world but to tie us down and dilute our ability to fight in the Middle East. Propaganda aside neither al-queera nor the taliwhackers have the ability to do more than isolated terrorist attacks outside their regions.

Nazi Germany was seen as freedom fighters when they first invaded the Baltic States and the Ukraine. Many from those states fought with Germany against the Soviets. Glad to see you have read WWII history about the battles in the East. ;)
Click to expand...

First you say I am being absurd with my Hitler comparison then you do exactly what I accused you of and call Hitler a freedom fighter. :roll:
 
notquiteright said:
Propaganda aside neither al-queera nor the taliwhackers have the ability to do more than isolated terrorist attacks outside their regions.
Click to expand...

This is quite an interesting statement. I wonder if this is what our government was thinking before 9-1-1.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom