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Camden To Scrap Police Dept Amid Budget Woes

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The Prof

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Camden to scrap police department amid budget woes | Fox News

even new jersey, huh?

buncha union busters

don't tell ed schultz

Crime-ridden Camden, New Jersey - often referred to as the most dangerous city in the United States - is getting rid of its police department.

In the latest example of a cash-strapped municipality taking drastic measures to deal with swollen public sector liabilities and shrinking budgets, the city plans to disband its 460-member police department and replace it with a non-union “Metro Division” of the Camden County Police. Backers of the plan say it will save millions of dollars for taxpayers while ensuring public safety, but police unions say it is simply a way to get out of collective bargaining with the men and women in blue.

“This is definitely a form of union-busting," Camden Fraternal Order of Police President John Williamson told FoxNews.com. “This method is unproven and untested, to put your faith in an agency that doesn’t even [yet] exist.”

Camden County Mayor Dana Redd has said layoffs of the city’s police force will begin by the end of the month. Only 49 percent of current city police officers will be transferred to the new county division, whose members will begin a four- to five-month training program.

“The officers who are getting laid off are going to have to be the ones who train their replacements,” Williamson said.
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The report states, "only 49 percent of current city police officers will be transferred to the new county division." I am curious as to what the criteria is for those who would be chosen for the transfer. It does not always mean the "creme of the crop" or best suited for the job.
 
Ah obviously the way to solve Candem's crime issue is to financially cripple the very people who know the streets of Camden, fire half of them and replace them with rookies. I have no love for cops but this sounds ridiculous.
 
How much do you think a police officer should be paid? That's curiosity, not partisanship asking. I await your humble opinions as to what is fair.
 
our economic woes are not being caused by teachers, police, or firefighters.
 
jamesrage said:
Good for them. Camden.If their unions are bleeding them dry and those unions refuse to make reasonable cuts then the city should get rid of them.
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Oh, of course, it the middle class public employee unions that have looted the New Jersey treasury, just like they did in California. The looting has absolutely nothing to do with over 50 years of outrageous pay-to-play scheming between the politicians and the state contracts they steer towards their wealthy upper class benefactors in private industry, who shamelessly overcharge the state for every unit of goods or services they provide.

Maybe Camden should privatize their police force. Wouldn't that be a swell idea? This way the company that gets the contract can pay their "police officers" minimum wage while the owners and top executives can pocket the rest, sans the piece they will have to set aside for the politicians so they can continue procuring them the contract, the cost of which will surely increase at a logarithmic pace with each renewal, even though the service provided will remain utterly abysmal.
 
The Prof said:
Camden to scrap police department amid budget woes | Fox News

even new jersey, huh?

buncha union busters

don't tell ed schultz



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I'm shocked, really. They probably need to dissolve their pension plan. (Don't worry, the officers most likely have to be paid all of the money invested on their behalf...assuming they have a Defined Benefit Plan like most other public employees.)

The unions just don't get it. I have no idea how much they are being paid. It's probably not enough, actually. But pension benefits? That's huge. A union spokesperson said, paraphrased, "We tried to give them concessions, like shift differential pay, but it wasn't good enough." Benefits, folks. It's all about the benefits in the background.

New Jersey police officers' salaries rank the highest in the nation, with a median of $90,672. I thought this was rather interesting:

In Bergen County, 59 of 68 towns have median police salaries above $100,000. The highest median pay in the state was $134,132 in Rochelle Park, where 19 cops patrol a one-square-mile borough near the intersection of the Garden State Parkway and Route 80.
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And this, about Camden:

“Today, it costs the City of Camden about $140,000 in salary, pension and benefits; to employ a sergeant and higher-ranked officer is costs about $200,000, according to the mayor’s Office,” said Cappelli. “That is unsustainable.”
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The city of Camden has a population of 77,283. Median income of $26,752. It's not hard to see how they're going broke. The Mayor says that, for the same money through the reorganization, they can have twice the number of officers. The rumor is that 8 or more other communities are considering joining the county-wide force.

Perhaps it will give the politicians a chance to do it right this time...and employ a force at a pay/benefits level they can afford to pay.
 
Helix said:
our economic woes are not being caused by teachers, police, or firefighters.
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Well, actually they are. At least at the city government level. And in some cases the state government level as well.

There is only so much money.
 
Sig said:
Oh, of course, it the middle class public employee unions that have looted the New Jersey treasury, just like they did in California. The looting has absolutely nothing to do with over 50 years of outrageous pay-to-play scheming between the politicians and the state contracts they steer towards their wealthy upper class benefactors in private industry
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bla bla bla. Here we go with the finger pointing. In the meantime, though, the money is gone. Make concessions or take a hike. Your choice.
 
LowDown said:
bla bla bla. Here we go with the finger pointing. In the meantime, though, the money is gone. Make concessions or take a hike. Your choice.
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I'm sorry, were you trying to say something meaningful?
 
Sig said:
Perhaps, you will find this rather interesting as well:

America's Top States for Business 2010 - Cost of Living Rankings - CNBC
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I don't even have to click it, Sig. Businesses are paid with profits -- not on the taxpayers' dime. Oh! and bonused with our bailouts. Ha!

Taxpayers need a break. The unions don't want to give them one? The taxpayers will take stronger measures. The politicians are finally listening, because the voters are just about ready to take them out.
 
Helix said:
i agree. however, color me skeptical of another piece of fox anti-union propaganda.
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In this case Camden had not much in the way of choices, a declining tax base, high variable costs (salary) and high fixed costs (pensions).

Camden is going to dissolve as a organized entity and become managed by the county I expect
 
MaggieD said:
I don't even have to click it, Sig. Businesses are paid with profits -- not on the taxpayers' dime.
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Oh really?... And what about those businesses that are on the taxpayer's dime since they are contracted with the state?

You bet they are paid with profits! Profits obtained by grossly overcharging the taxpayers for whatever goods and services their company provides. Strange that you never hear about how the wealthy upperclass loot the treasury with impunity, isn't it?

I wonder why that is? Could it be because the wealthy upper class also enjoy a controlling interest in every major source of news media?
 
Sig said:
Oh really?... And what about those businesses that are on the taxpayer's dime since they are contracted with the state?

You bet they are paid with profits! Profits obtained by grossly overcharging the taxpayers for whatever goods and services their company provides. Strange that you never hear about how the wealthy upperclass loot the treasury with impunity, isn't it?

I wonder why that is? Could it be because the wealthy upper class also enjoy a controlling interest in every major source of news media?
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Fortunately, we have competition to deal with what you're talking about. And entrepreneurs always looking for ways to enter the marketplace. Who would you think would enjoy a controlling interest in every major source of news media? Waitresses? And as for that? We have a liberal news media across the board -- who would be deeeelighted to report price fixing and other anti-trust violations.
 
and the Road to Serfdom continues unabated or unonstructed
 
MaggieD said:
No, color you Googleless. It's all over the internet.
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i suppose that my post was unclear. i don't doubt the validity of the story; my criticism was directed at the tone of the article and at the the idea that we are somehow being too generous to police, firefighters, and teachers. mea culpa.
 
haymarket said:
and the Road to Serfdom continues unabated or unonstructed
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The serfs are the residents of Camden who have a median income under $27,000 a year. The Lord of the Manor is greedy unions who are about to self-destruct. We're having a rebellion.

Oh, and by the way, the mayor of Camden is a Democrats. **gasp**
 
I was going to pass on this thread because many of the comments showed no one knows camden NJ....Camden has been a city in decline since the 70s...crime is insane..the Police Dept has been undermanned and underfunded for many years....If you drive through camden it looks like afghanistan abandoned buildings and a city in truly disrepair....crime is so bad they closed a state prison located in the city that wasnt 20 yrs old...thats unheard of for example East Jersey and Trenton were built in the 1800s and still open...Camden cant survive without lots of state aid...its a dead city...
 
Sig said:
Oh really?... And what about those businesses that are on the taxpayer's dime since they are contracted with the state?

You bet they are paid with profits! Profits obtained by grossly overcharging the taxpayers for whatever goods and services their company provides. Strange that you never hear about how the wealthy upperclass loot the treasury with impunity, isn't it?

I wonder why that is? Could it be because the wealthy upper class also enjoy a controlling interest in every major source of news media?
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Yah, you could win the argument, but then we'd still be right here at the same place: Out of money. Take all the money the wealthy have and we'd still be out of money, just slightly less deep in debt.

Warren Buffett has bailed out of his position on municipal bonds. He doesn't expect cities to be able to remain solvent. Because when something can't go on forever it won't.

Cities have to be cutting spending to match revenues. That can't be done with these union contracts.
 
lpast said:
I was going to pass on this thread because many of the comments showed no one knows camden NJ....Camden has been a city in decline since the 70s...crime is insane..the Police Dept has been undermanned and underfunded for many years....If you drive through camden it looks like afghanistan abandoned buildings and a city in truly disrepair....crime is so bad they closed a state prison located in the city that wasnt 20 yrs old...thats unheard of for example East Jersey and Trenton were built in the 1800s and still open...Camden cant survive without lots of state aid...its a dead city...
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Thanks, LPast. I did see, as I Googled around, that it's crime ridden. Maybe increasing their police force by a couple hundred will help -- which is what they say they can do through this county program.
 
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