Camden To Scrap Police Dept Amid Budget Woes

specklebang said:

I pretty much agree with your POV about higher pay but modest benefits and no eternal pensions. But my question remains for everyone. How much would be a fair salary for a uniformed police officer? I'm so out of touch with some aspects of society that I don't understand what fair pay is for a profession like this. Trying to learn something.....

(Remember, I'm retired and get SS+Medicare+a couple of thousand in rental income and other interest. So I "make" about $48K which is far more than I need. I am a busybody angel type so I speend the majority of my income on family and friends but I don't have to "make a living". If I were a cop, I don't have a sense of what would be fair pay.)

Click to expand...

It's as difficult to say "what's fair" to compensate LEOs as it is to say "what's fair" to tax the 1%, don't you think? But here's some food for thought. If danger and injuries is part of the equation (which everyone will certainly say it is), here are some comparisons -- the ten most dangerous jobs in the United States:

Fishermen. Fatality Rate: 116 per 100,000. Median Wage: $27,880.
Logger. Fatality Rate: 92 per 100,000. Median Wage: $38,660.
Airplane Pilot. Fatality Rate: 71 per 100,000. Median Wage: $115,300.
Farmer/Rancher. Fatality Rate: 41 per 100,000 Median Wage: $65,960.
Mining Machine Operator.Fatality Rate: 39 per 100,000 Median Wage: $39,950.
Roofer: Fatality Rate: 32 per 100,000 Median Wage: $37,880
Sanitation Worker: Fatality Rate: 30 per 100,000 Median Wage: $34,310
Truck Driver/Delivery Men: Fatality Rate: 22 per 100,000 Median Wage: $35,500
Industrial Machine Repairman: Fatality Rate: 20 per 100,000 Median Wage: $45,700
Police Offficer: Fatality Rate: 18 per 100,000 Median Wage: $55,600

America's most dangerous jobs - The 10 most dangerous jobs in America (1) - CNNMoney

The median wage of police officers in New Jersey is $90,672. The median wage of LEO's in Camden, New Jersey is $79,656.

N.J. police salaries rank highest in nation with median pay of $90,672 | NJ.com

MaggieD said:

Oh, I can pretty much assure you that in Chicago's worst gang-infested neighborhoods it's already just about open carry and a pretty sure bet that every gang member and their wanna be's are packing heat.

Chicago's weekend of violence:

9 Dead, 28 Wounded since Friday afternoon. Murders up 30% compared to last year. The Police Chief has an interesting spin on it:



Christ. Why any sane mother would live with her children in these war zones is beyond me. In these gang hellholes, society is so broken as to be nonsensical. Most of us would be homeless in boxes before we would expose our children to the dangers of these neighborhoods. What is wrong with these women?

Click to expand...

Its time to arm the sheep the wolfs prey on then.:gunsmilie

MaggieD said:

It's as difficult to say "what's fair" to compensate LEOs as it is to say "what's fair" to tax the 1%, don't you think? But here's some food for thought. If danger and injuries is part of the equation (which everyone will certainly say it is), here are some comparisons -- the ten most dangerous jobs in the United States:

Fishermen. Fatality Rate: 116 per 100,000. Median Wage: $27,880.
Logger. Fatality Rate: 92 per 100,000. Median Wage: $38,660.
Airplane Pilot. Fatality Rate: 71 per 100,000. Median Wage: $115,300.
Farmer/Rancher. Fatality Rate: 41 per 100,000 Median Wage: $65,960.
Mining Machine Operator.Fatality Rate: 39 per 100,000 Median Wage: $39,950.
Roofer: Fatality Rate: 32 per 100,000 Median Wage: $37,880
Sanitation Worker: Fatality Rate: 30 per 100,000 Median Wage: $34,310
Truck Driver/Delivery Men: Fatality Rate: 22 per 100,000 Median Wage: $35,500
Industrial Machine Repairman: Fatality Rate: 20 per 100,000 Median Wage: $45,700
Police Offficer: Fatality Rate: 18 per 100,000 Median Wage: $55,600

America's most dangerous jobs - The 10 most dangerous jobs in America (1) - CNNMoney

The median wage of police officers in New Jersey is $90,672. The median wage of LEO's in Camden, New Jersey is $79,656.

N.J. police salaries rank highest in nation with median pay of $90,672 | NJ.com

Click to expand...

It would seem they are being compensated appropriately. They are just still too exepnsive. They be an unaffordable luxery right now. People gona have to learn to take care of themselves for a change.

It seems that a figure of about $60K would be appropriate. I don't know the cost of living in NJ. Certainly, the Camden cops are already very well paid and should not be entitled to retire in 20 years with large pensions.

MaggieD said:

It's as difficult to say "what's fair" to compensate LEOs as it is to say "what's fair" to tax the 1%, don't you think? But here's some food for thought. If danger and injuries is part of the equation (which everyone will certainly say it is), here are some comparisons -- the ten most dangerous jobs in the United States:

Fishermen. Fatality Rate: 116 per 100,000. Median Wage: $27,880.
Logger. Fatality Rate: 92 per 100,000. Median Wage: $38,660.
Airplane Pilot. Fatality Rate: 71 per 100,000. Median Wage: $115,300.
Farmer/Rancher. Fatality Rate: 41 per 100,000 Median Wage: $65,960.
Mining Machine Operator.Fatality Rate: 39 per 100,000 Median Wage: $39,950.
Roofer: Fatality Rate: 32 per 100,000 Median Wage: $37,880
Sanitation Worker: Fatality Rate: 30 per 100,000 Median Wage: $34,310
Truck Driver/Delivery Men: Fatality Rate: 22 per 100,000 Median Wage: $35,500
Industrial Machine Repairman: Fatality Rate: 20 per 100,000 Median Wage: $45,700
Police Offficer: Fatality Rate: 18 per 100,000 Median Wage: $55,600

America's most dangerous jobs - The 10 most dangerous jobs in America (1) - CNNMoney

The median wage of police officers in New Jersey is $90,672. The median wage of LEO's in Camden, New Jersey is $79,656.

N.J. police salaries rank highest in nation with median pay of $90,672 | NJ.com

Click to expand...

LowDown said:

Yah, you could win the argument, but then we'd still be right here at the same place: Out of money. Take all the money the wealthy have and we'd still be out of money, just slightly less deep in debt.

Warren Buffett has bailed out of his position on municipal bonds. He doesn't expect cities to be able to remain solvent. Because when something can't go on forever it won't.

Cities have to be cutting spending to match revenues. That can't be done with these union contracts.

Click to expand...

This isn't about taxing the rich. It is about the rich looting the public treasury of the federal, state, and local governments through pay-to-play schemes which enable them to overcharge the government at the expense of the taxpayer, then have the unabashed nerve to turn around and blame the depletion of the treasury on middle class government employees, such as Camden police officers.

Ahh good ol' New Jersey. Doing nothing to combat the stereotypes.

MaggieD said:

Fortunately, we have competition to deal with what you're talking about.

Click to expand...

No, we don't, not when pay-to-play political corruption stifles real competition for government contracts. This is the point!

And entrepreneurs always looking for ways to enter the marketplace. Who would you think would enjoy a controlling interest in every major source of news media? Waitresses? And as for that? We have a liberal news media across the board -- who would be deeeelighted to report price fixing and other anti-trust violations.

Click to expand...

A sense of unreality will do you no good, my dear. The liberal news media is obviously much more concerned about such "monumentally important social issues" as gay marriage than they are in price fixing schemes, anti-trust violations, runaway political graft, and the evaporation of the middle class. Why do you think that is?

MaggieD said:

That you make poor excuses for why they don't move isn't the answer, Mr Invisible. And doesn't show my ignorance. Many of these poor families are on public assistance. They receive housing allowances where the government pays some, if not all, of their rent. They receive food stamps. They have friends they can double-up with. Many of them have families in other areas of the country.

Hell, they could move in down the street from me with their family. There's apartments in my neighborhood renting for $900 a month. How much cheaper is their rent? Maybe a few hundred dollars? Most or all being paid by the government?

They don't want to move. For whatever reason, they don't want to move. They think living in war zones is normal.

Click to expand...

Like I said, your ignorance is showing. I am not making excuses. If you don't have the money to do something, you don't have the money to do something. You are making vast generalizations about people living in these areas. Not everyone has family they can go to, why do you think that when Katrina hit, some people stayed. It was because they had no where else to go. Or is that making excuses for them?

Ikari said:

Ahh good ol' New Jersey. Doing nothing to combat the stereotypes.

Click to expand...

Holy crap! What a GREAT idea...they should organize a sitdown with Nicky Mitarotonda...offer him the control of the streets. No pay for his soldiers...but they control the streets....so....hey...if you happen to run a little a dis, and a little a dat...well...no problem...as long as the boys in Newark get a taste. Maybe give em Bayonne too...just to sweeten the pot.

Mr. Invisible said:

Like I said, your ignorance is showing. I am not making excuses. If you don't have the money to do something, you don't have the money to do something. You are making vast generalizations about people living in these areas. Not everyone has family they can go to, why do you think that when Katrina hit, some people stayed. It was because they had no where else to go. Or is that making excuses for them?

Click to expand...

All the moms in my life would live in cardboard boxes before they would subject their children to being shot to death while jumping rope on the front sidewalk. Before they would allow their young sons to be corrupted by a gang mentality and end up dead or in jail before they hit 25. The coppers try to clean up a neighborhood, and people throw rocks at them. Scream police brutality. They should be serving them coffee and donuts. There's something intrinsically wrong with them. I just don't know what it is.

MaggieD said:

It's as difficult to say "what's fair" to compensate LEOs as it is to say "what's fair" to tax the 1%, don't you think? But here's some food for thought. If danger and injuries is part of the equation (which everyone will certainly say it is), here are some comparisons -- the ten most dangerous jobs in the United States:

The median wage of police officers in New Jersey is $90,672. The median wage of LEO's in Camden, New Jersey is $79,656.

N.J. police salaries rank highest in nation with median pay of $90,672 | NJ.com

Click to expand...

The salaries for New Jersey employees in just about every arena of employment are higher than that in most every state, with the exception of California and Hawaii.

Why is that, Maggie?

Because NJ has the third highest cost of living in the United States. Ergo, NJ employers, including the state and local governments, have to pay a higher salary in order to maintain an adequate work force. But we have already discussed this so please refrain from your continued and deliberate intellectual dishonesty through submitting unqualified statistics in regards to the salaries of police officers in NJ. Your credibility is at stake here.

One more thing: Just so you know, about the only job more taxing upon the mind and soul than that of an inner-city police officer is that of an oncologist.

Sig said:

The salaries for New Jersey employees in just about every arena of employment are higher than that in most every state, with the exception of California and Hawaii.

Why is that, Maggie?

Because NJ has the third highest cost of living in the United States. Ergo, NJ employers, including the state and local governments, have to pay a higher salary in order to maintain an adequate work force. But we have already discussed this so please refrain from your continued and deliberate intellectual dishonesty through submitting unqualified statistics in regards to the salaries of police officers in NJ. Your credibility is at stake here.

One more thing: Just so you know, about the only job more taxing upon the mind and soul than that of an inner-city police officer is that of an oncologist.

Click to expand...

You should see the property taxes out here. Nothing more than theft if you ask me!

Ikari said:

You should see the property taxes out here. Nothing more than theft if you ask me!

Click to expand...

Perhaps you should start looking at the receipts and see if you are getting your dollar's worth. Compare, widget for widget, what the state and local government is paying compared to the going market rate for the same good or service. You might just have a stroke.

MaggieD said:

All the moms in my life would live in cardboard boxes before they would subject their children to being shot to death while jumping rope on the front sidewalk. Before they would allow their young sons to be corrupted by a gang mentality and end up dead or in jail before they hit 25. The coppers try to clean up a neighborhood, and people throw rocks at them. Scream police brutality. They should be serving them coffee and donuts. There's something intrinsically wrong with them. I just don't know what it is.

Click to expand...

Mind explaining to me why you think poor mothers are staying in crime-ridden areas for, if not because they are unable to move? (And please don't say "there's something wrong with them")

Also mind explaining to me why you think the fact that many of these families are poor is not a legitimate barrier.

MaggieD said:

All the moms in my life would live in cardboard boxes before they would subject their children to being shot to death while jumping rope on the front sidewalk. Before they would allow their young sons to be corrupted by a gang mentality and end up dead or in jail before they hit 25. The coppers try to clean up a neighborhood, and people throw rocks at them. Scream police brutality. They should be serving them coffee and donuts. There's something intrinsically wrong with them. I just don't know what it is.

Click to expand...

They be stupid. Sad unfortunate truth. Thats why so few leave the getto.:shrug:

Sig said:

Perhaps you should start looking at the receipts and see if you are getting your dollar's worth. Compare, widget for widget, what the state and local government is paying compared to the going market rate for the same good or service. You might just have a stroke.

Click to expand...

What we're getting is ripped off. One of the most expensive places to live in the country, property taxes which are criminal, additional revenue is generated through traffic tickets, nothing is legal everything costs money and what is there to show for it? New Jersey is the laughing stock of the Republic, we have one of the highest unemployment rates, several of our cities are just dilapidated hell holes that never get fixed, the government is aggressive and draconian, and we have a fat ass POS governor who thinks that yelling and berating makes proper argument and conduct for a politician. If any State of the 50 needs to revolt against their State government, it’s New Jersey.

Ikari said:

What we're getting is ripped off. One of the most expensive places to live in the country, property taxes which are criminal, additional revenue is generated through traffic tickets, nothing is legal everything costs money and what is there to show for it? New Jersey is the laughing stock of the Republic, we have one of the highest unemployment rates, several of our cities are just dilapidated hell holes that never get fixed, the government is aggressive and draconian, and we have a fat ass POS governor who thinks that yelling and berating makes proper argument and conduct for a politician. If any State of the 50 needs to revolt against their State government, it’s New Jersey.

Click to expand...

With the amount of tax revenue that NJ (the most densely populated state in the nation) acquires through its resident property tax, sales tax, tollways, casinos, lotteries, etc., etc. it is virtually impossible for NJ to be broke unless there has been runaway looting of the treasury by way of political graft for a good many decades.

NJ politicians can scapegoat their middle class public employees all they want. This will do NOTHING to fix what is really wrong with NJ. Indeed, it will only allow the looting of the state treasury to continue, looting which has undoubtedly been facilitated through pay-to-play schemes between wealthy upper class benefactors in the private sector and the public officials they bankroll in exchange for the very lucrative state contracts these politicians steer to these benefactors.

Sig said:

The salaries for New Jersey employees in just about every arena of employment are higher than that in most every state, with the exception of California and Hawaii.

Why is that, Maggie?

Because NJ has the third highest cost of living in the United States. Ergo, NJ employers, including the state and local governments, have to pay a higher salary in order to maintain an adequate work force. But we have already discussed this so please refrain from your continued and deliberate intellectual dishonesty through submitting unqualified statistics in regards to the salaries of police officers in NJ. Your credibility is at stake here.

One more thing: Just so you know, about the only job more taxing upon the mind and soul than that of an inner-city police officer is that of an oncologist.

Click to expand...

I'm going to ignore all your crap about my intellectual honesty and credibility. If you can't post links to support your position, you are in absolutely no position to talk. Get it?

The cost of living in the county of Camden, New Jersey is 99.6 compared to an average nationwide of 100, so slightly below average. Camden County, New Jersey detailed profile - houses, real estate, cost of living, wages, work, agriculture, ancestries, and more

The average salary of a police officer in Newark, NJ (NJ's largest city, which I'm sure has plenty of inner-city problems) is $90,000. The median salary of a police officer in Camden, NJ is, as I've stated, about $80,000. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/nj_police_salaries_rank_highes.html

The median income in Camden NJ is $26,762. Camden, New Jersey (NJ) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news, sex offenders

The median income in Newark is $35,963. Newark, New Jersey (NJ) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news, sex offenders

One cannot get blood out of a turnip.

When I type into Google: "Inner city policeman and oncologists" the only thing that comes up is your post. How about a credible link?

Mr. Invisible said:

Mind explaining to me why you think poor mothers are staying in crime-ridden areas for, if not because they are unable to move? (And please don't say "there's something wrong with them")

Also mind explaining to me why you think the fact that many of these families are poor is not a legitimate barrier.

Click to expand...

Personally? I think they don't know any better. I think many of them believe that those conditions are "normal." I also think that, like most people in the world, the devil they know is better than the devil they don't. Combine those thinking patterns with how difficult it is to make significant life changes, and I think we probably have a reasonable answer.

MaggieD said:

I'm going to ignore all your crap about my intellectual honesty and credibility. If you can't post links to support your position, you are in absolutely no position to talk. Get it?

The cost of living in the county of Camden, New Jersey is 99.6 compared to an average nationwide of 100, so slightly below average. Camden County, New Jersey detailed profile - houses, real estate, cost of living, wages, work, agriculture, ancestries, and more

The average salary of a police officer in Newark, NJ (NJ's largest city, which I'm sure has plenty of inner-city problems) is $90,000. The median salary of a police officer in Camden, NJ is, as I've stated, about $80,000. N.J. police salaries rank highest in nation with median pay of $90,672 | NJ.com

The median income in Camden NJ is $26,762. Camden, New Jersey (NJ) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news, sex offenders

The median income in Newark is $35,963. Newark, New Jersey (NJ) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news, sex offenders

One cannot get blood out of a turnip.

When I type into Google: "Inner city policeman and oncologists" the only thing that comes up is your post. How about a credible link?

Click to expand...

Is there some point you are trying to make here, Maggie, other than the fact that you have no shame whatsoever when it comes to submitting misleading statistics? The cost of living in Camden County will vary widely depending upon where exactly one lives in the county. Try comparing the cost of housing in Camden, Camden County with say... the cost of housing in Haddonfield, Camden County. Just the same, the cost of living in Los Angeles County will vary widely depending upon whether one lives in South Central or Beverly Hills.

The point of the matter is that New Jersey has the third highest cost of living in the United States; thus, wage earnings will, by necessity, be higher in New Jersey than in most other states. If you are going to break this very simple statistic down into minutia, have the decency to at least finish the job.

Sig said:

Is there some point you are trying to make here, Maggie, other than the fact that you have no shame whatsoever when it comes to submitting misleading statistics? The cost of living in Camden County will vary widely depending upon where exactly one lives in the county. Try comparing the cost of housing in Camden, Camden County with say... the cost of housing in Haddonfield, Camden County. Just the same, the cost of living in Los Angeles County will vary widely depending upon whether one lives in South Central or Beverly Hills.

The point of the matter is that New Jersey has the third highest cost of living in the United States; thus, wage earnings will, by necessity, be higher in New Jersey than in most other states. If you are going to break this very simple statistic down into minutia, have the decency to at least finish the job.

Click to expand...

And you, my friend, have the decency to at least post a link to substantiate even one of your claims.

MaggieD said:

And you, my friend, have the decency to at least post a link to substantiate even one of your claims.

Click to expand...

Would you feel better if I provided you a link about the cost of housing in various municipalities in Camden County, NJ, dear? Do you really think I'm making this up, or are you under some absurd delusion that cost of housing in Camden County is strangely uniform?


Using your own link:


Camden, New Jersey (NJ) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news, sex offenders

Haddonfield, New Jersey (NJ 08033) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news

Knock yourself out, sweetie.


And if you need some links about corruption in NJ, just google "corruption in NJ" and you'll have more than you can handle in a lifetime.

Sig said:

Would you feel better if I provided you a link about the cost of housing in various municipalities in Camden County, NJ, dear? Do you really think I'm making this up, or are you under some absurd delusion that cost of housing in Camden County is strangely uniform?

Using your own link:

Camden, New Jersey (NJ) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news, sex offenders

Haddonfield, New Jersey (NJ 08033) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, news

Knock yourself out, sweetie.

And if you need some links about corruption in NJ, just google "corruption in NJ" and you'll have more than you can handle in a lifetime.

Click to expand...

Dear and Sweetie. Aren't you cute. But I'll ignore that archaic way of showing superiority, since I respect my elders. However. I won't ignore your failure to supply links to substantiate:

This:

The salaries for New Jersey employees in just about every arena of employment are higher than that in most every state, with the exception of California and Hawaii.

Click to expand...

And this:

Because NJ has the third highest cost of living in the United States.

Click to expand...

And this:

Just so you know, about the only job more taxing upon the mind and soul than that of an inner-city police officer is that of an oncologist.

Click to expand...

Oh, and THIS:

Compare, widget for widget, what the state and local government is paying compared to the going market rate for the same good or service. You might just have a stroke.

Click to expand...

Further, I have no idea why you are zeroing in on my post in particular. I posted the Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in the United States, along with deaths per 100,000 and their paychecks. I posted the median salaries of Camden LEOs; the median salaries of all LEOs in New Jersey. All without my personal editorial comments.

What's got you so upset, Sig? Are you a public employee? That answer would be: YES.

MaggieD said:

Dear and Sweetie. Aren't you cute. But I'll ignore that archaic way of showing superiority, since I respect my elders. However. I won't ignore your failure to supply links to substantiate:

Click to expand...

I am your superior regardless of my age, buttercup. Get used to it.

Further, I have no idea why you are zeroing in on my post in particular. I posted the Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in the United States, along with deaths per 100,000 and their paychecks. I posted the median salaries of Camden LEOs; the median salaries of all LEOs in New Jersey. All without my personal editorial comments.

Click to expand...

I am zeroing in your posts because you are an otherwise intelligent person who is nevertheless a misguided fool. It really is a pity.

What's got you so upset, Sig? Are you a public employee? That answer would be: YES.

Click to expand...

Actually, I am a retired investor living on a pension. However, I have a number of friends and family members who are public employees and I take offense at the naivete of people like yourself who have so easily fallen for the insidious disinformation conveyed by the upper class upon the middle class, in states like California and New Jersey, wherein they attempt to blame middle class public employees for their states' financial problems when it is, in fact, the wealthy upper class who have exploited their political clout so to loot the treasuries of these states with abandon.

We are talking about shameless, greedy, pigs who have obtained their great wealth by procuring contracts which allow their companies to sell goods and services to these states at rates which are often three to five times (or more) fair market value, and get away with it with impunity. They have looted the treasuries of states like California and NJ, and none of the elected officials in these states or the federal government or the media (liberal or conservative) is doing a danm thing about it. Instead, they are scapegoating middle class people, like Camden police officers, none of whom have ever become particularly wealthy from their middle class jobs. It is an absolute disgrace that this is happening, and will continue to happen, thanks in no small part from fools like yourself who are so easily duped by a mass media that is undoubtedly owned by some of the same wealthy upper class pigs who are responsible for the revenue woes within these states.

Sig said:

I am your superior regardless of my age, buttercup. Get used to it.

I am zeroing in your posts because you are an otherwise intelligent person who is nevertheless a misguided fool. It really is a pity.

Actually, I am a retired investor living on a pension. However, I have a number of friends and family members who are public employees and I take offense at the naivete of people like yourself who have so easily fallen for the insidious disinformation conveyed by the upper class upon the middle class, in states like California and New Jersey, wherein they attempt to blame middle class public employees for their states' financial problems when it is, in fact, the wealthy upper class who have exploited their political clout so to loot the treasuries of these states with abandon.

We are talking about shameless, greedy, pigs who have obtained their great wealth by procuring contracts which allow their companies to sell goods and services to these states at rates which are often three to five times (or more) fair market value, and get away with it with impunity. They have looted the treasuries of states like California and NJ, and none of the elected officials in these states or the federal government or the media (liberal or conservative) is doing a danm thing about it. Instead, they are scapegoating middle class people, like Camden police officers, none of whom have ever become particularly wealthy from their middle class jobs. It is an absolute disgrace that this is happening, and will continue to happen, thanks in no small part from fools like yourself who are so easily duped by a mass media that is undoubtedly owned by some of the same wealthy upper class pigs who are responsible for the revenue woes within these states.

Click to expand...

First, I blame politicians for everything. Let's see some links, Mr. Sig. So much better than your flappin' gums. Ones that show that states are paying three to five times what things are worth large scale. Next, exactly what is a "retired investor"?

Your attempts to patronize me are falling on deaf ears. The simple fact is that taxpayers cannot afford your friends and relatives' public pensions. (And yours, I'd venture a guess.) I blame politicians for ever having agreed to them in the first place. People are standing in line around the block to become police officers in just about every city in this nation. Why is that if the pay's so bad? Know why? 'Cause it isn't.

You remind me of a guy I used to work with. He called all the girls in the office honey and sweetie, too. Just before he patted 'em on the ass.