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Shot straight.
Thank you again for proving my point.
Oversimplified once again.
Shot straight.
The mistake was the 12lb trigger pull, and the cops who shot had no control over that decision.Yep. There are some "MISTAKES" that you just don't make ... this being one of them.
The mistake was the 12lb trigger pull, and the cops who shot had no control over that decision.
The bystanders were not shot. They were struck by fragments when the bullets hit a nearby surface. A proper trigger pull would have prevented this by allowing the cops to accurately place rounds on-target, where the perp's body would absorb the bullet and there's wouldn't be any fragments to hit bystanders.
You admit to knowing what you're talking about, you disagree anyway, and you expect me to have something to say? Whatever man.This is a least the second time you've mentioned the trigger pull. I have mixed feelings about that, but I do think having that much of a pull is a safety consideration which may have prevented unwanted weapons discharges by cops. I am no expert, but apparently, the 12 pounds is not an arbitrary number.
I return to a comment I made earlier about supervisors and training. What is the responsibility of a supervisor other than the quality of the donuts? If someone is properly trained, then the issue of the pull pressure is diminished. If you go to the range once a year and shoot a couple dozen rounds ... then you might have a point about pull pressure. Lethal force is a job requirement for these cops. I will not give them the 12 pound pull cop-out (pun intended). I fault the supervisors for not training these people properly ... and THAT is a mistake you don't make.
As far as the folks (and I don't know how many) getting hit by fragments ... there is probably a direct correlation to the number of shots fired and the quantity of fragments. Yet again, the subject of training rears its head.
So, based upon my limited knowledge of the subject of trigger pull pressure, I disagree with you and do not lay blame on the 12 pound trigger pull. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the cops and their supervisors.
A L
Thank you again for proving my point.
Oversimplified once again.
You admit to knowing what you're talking about, you disagree anyway, and you expect me to have something to say? Whatever man.
A 12lb trigger pull is like having a bent barrel. No training is going to compensate for that, so whatever.I admitted to NOT KNOWING a lot about trigger pull pressures. I guess you either failed to read and/or comprehend the rest of the post ... hence your "Whatever man". So it appears that proper training is not part of what you consider important. There is a post below yours which pointed out the various pull pressures. Yet again, I freely admit to a lack of knowledge of same but I stand by my contention that proper training is the answer to the problem. Since you failed to mention the lack supervisory oversight leads me to believe that you are either in or have been in a supervisory position and don't want to criticise them. I have had supervisory positions (not in firearms) and I know that as Harry Truman's desk plaque said, "The buck stops here". Yes, I still blame the cops and I still blame the supervisors. The issue of the necessity of the 12 pound rule is up to the powers that be (aka OTHER SUPERVISORS).Your "Whatever man" adds nothing to the discussion. Now, if the preceeding statement causes you a problem ...A L
A 12lb trigger pull is like having a bent barrel. No training is going to compensate for that, so whatever.
This is a least the second time you've mentioned the trigger pull. I have mixed feelings about that, but I do think having that much of a pull is a safety consideration which may have prevented unwanted weapons discharges by cops. I am no expert, but apparently, the 12 pounds is not an arbitrary number.
I return to a comment I made earlier about supervisors and training. What is the responsibility of a supervisor other than the quality of the donuts? If someone is properly trained, then the issue of the pull pressure is diminished. If you go to the range once a year and shoot a couple dozen rounds ... then you might have a point about pull pressure. Lethal force is a job requirement for these cops. I will not give them the 12 pound pull cop-out (pun intended). I fault the supervisors for not training these people properly ... and THAT is a mistake you don't make.
As far as the folks (and I don't know how many) getting hit by fragments ... there is probably a direct correlation to the number of shots fired and the quantity of fragments. Yet again, the subject of training rears its head.
So, based upon my limited knowledge of the subject of trigger pull pressure, I disagree with you and do not lay blame on the 12 pound trigger pull. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the cops and their supervisors.
A L
I think it is great that the cops had the balls to do what needed to be done. They're heroes. It does, however, appear that they could use some marksman training.
No Caine, it is not oversimplification, that is dismissal by you to protect your own (which I do say cops always do, so thanks for proving MY point). What they should have done was to be trained and capable of using their tools. What they demonstrated was that they were NOT. As such, they get taken off that beat until they can demonstrate themselves competent. They should have to face repercussions for the inept behavior particularly given the outcome in this case.
In ANY job or business, ineptitude does not excuse mistakes, everyone faces the repercussions of actions. Everyone but cops it seems. If they endanger the public while exercising their job, then they are acting counter to the very reason as to why we have them. It must be regulated. If you leave a data point such as this which demonstrates they do not have the ability to properly and intelligently use the tools of their job, then they must be reprimanded, the same as anyone else would.
Cops are not above the law, no matter how much you want to argue that case.
No amount of training can duplicate the effects that the very real fear of imminent death can have on your decision making and accuracy.