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Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

Oh, come on bud, you know full well that when you swore the oath and signed on the dotted line, your life belonged to Uncle Sam and it is a whole different thing from civilian employement.

Not for the purposes of this. I agreed to the terms and conditions of employment, and I am obliged to maintain them. If I get out of the military and sign any other labor contracts, I will be obliged to perform according to their expectations as well. The woman does not have the right to a job from BK.
 
And the business should not have to cater to her. She can find a job where skirts are okay. If she can't wear pants, that is HER problem. Why does it have to make it Burger King's problem, or any other business' problem?

Precisely. BK is not denying her employment. They simply won't hire people who won't wear pants. She is free to work wherever she can come to mutually agreeable terms with the employer. It is not BK's fault that her conscience limits those places to ones where she can wear skirts.
 
Not for the purposes of this. I agreed to the terms and conditions of employment, and I am obliged to maintain them. If I get out of the military and sign any other labor contracts, I will be obliged to perform according to their expectations as well. The woman does not have the right to a job from BK.

The woman had a right not to be discriminated against based on her religion in the the pursuit and execution of that job.
 
The woman had a right not to be discriminated against based on her religion in the the pursuit and execution of that job.

1. No, she doesn't. It is simply illegal to do so. RIGHTS are negative, not positive things, and that is important. For that matter, the law which bans discrimination on the part of an employer is an infringement upon their rights, and should be ended.

2. If she get's fired simply for being a pentecostal, let me know. I only wander into a fast-food-burger joint once in a blue moon, but I will avoid BK in the future (which would be sad, the whopper is far superior to McDonalds' products). However, it looks here like she got fired for refusing to conform to the dress code.
 
The woman had a right not to be discriminated against based on her religion in the the pursuit and execution of that job.

I just don't see any discrimination against her religion involved in this situation. I see it more as a "follow the rules or go elsewhere" situation, and if the employee who was interviewing her gave her bad information, that is also not "discrimination." And did she ever work for even one day there? I read that she was there for orientation and was sent home for not having the proper attire. And why did it take 2 years for this lawsuit to come up?
 
I just don't see any discrimination against her religion involved in this situation. I see it more as a "follow the rules or go elsewhere" situation, and if the employee who was interviewing her gave her bad information, that is also not "discrimination." And did she ever work for even one day there? I read that she was there for orientation and was sent home for not having the proper attire. And why did it take 2 years for this lawsuit to come up?
let me help you out, then

the pentecost woman cannot wear pants and also be consistent with the teachings of her G_d as she understands them to be
burger king insists that she wear pants
so, now she is placed in a position where she must decide to obey burger king or her G_d
burger king cannot unreasonably place her in that position to have to choose between the two
 
1. No, she doesn't. It is simply illegal to do so. RIGHTS are negative, not positive things, and that is important. For that matter, the law which bans discrimination on the part of an employer is an infringement upon their rights, and should be ended.

2. If she get's fired simply for being a pentecostal, let me know. I only wander into a fast-food-burger joint once in a blue moon, but I will avoid BK in the future (which would be sad, the whopper is far superior to McDonalds' products). However, it looks here like she got fired for refusing to conform to the dress code.


This is what her protected rights are in this specific situation: "“religion” includes all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief" BK according to the EEOC breached those rights.
 
I just don't see any discrimination against her religion involved in this situation. I see it more as a "follow the rules or go elsewhere" situation, and if the employee who was interviewing her gave her bad information, that is also not "discrimination." And did she ever work for even one day there? I read that she was there for orientation and was sent home for not having the proper attire. And why did it take 2 years for this lawsuit to come up?
It was a religious practice, observance or belief for which BK acted to the detriment of the woman..
 
The woman had a right not to be discriminated against based on her religion in the the pursuit and execution of that job.
Having the same dress code for everyone is not discriminating, it treats everyone the same.
To open this door, opens other doors, like a Muslim woman wanting to wear a burka at work.
We have the freedom to choose where we work. This freedom comes with the understanding that there
are conditions to our employment agreement.
We get to work on time, we dress according to the dress code, we preform the tasks assigned...ect.
To ask someone to do something they have already agreed to, is not discrimination,
it is just part of the job!
 
This is what her protected rights are in this specific situation: "“religion” includes all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief" BK according to the EEOC breached those rights.

You are conflating two different points.

1. I realize this might be a violation of the EEOC

2. That does not mean that this womans' RIGHTS were violated. You do not receive your rights from the government (and, again, that's important). Since you do not have a right to have someone else hire you, this womans' rights have not been infringed.
 
let me help you out, then

the pentecost woman cannot wear pants and also be consistent with the teachings of her G_d as she understands them to be
burger king insists that she wear pants
so, now she is placed in a position where she must decide to obey burger king or her G_d
burger king cannot unreasonably place her in that position to have to choose between the two

They aren't. She can get a job elsewhere. Nobody disrespected her or her religion. As a business owner (for clarification, I am not), if I chose to have my employees where a uniform because I want to AVOID situations like this, that should be my right. If she cannot abide by the dress code, she can apply for employment at a business that does not have a dress code. Simple. It's not like Burger King is the creme de la creme of jobs anyway.
 
It was a religious practice, observance or belief for which BK acted to the detriment of the woman..

IMO, this was a simple miscommunication and not discrimination.
 
You are conflating two different points.

1. I realize this might be a violation of the EEOC

2. That does not mean that this womans' RIGHTS were violated. You do not receive your rights from the government.

What I am doing is applying the facts to the law and determining that there is a violation of a law for which BK is duty bound to comply with.
 
IMO, this was a simple miscommunication and not discrimination.

Then BK has responded since they refused to respond previoulsy and has published a position statement. If so, please post the link.
 
Then BK has responded since they refused to respond previoulsy and has published a position statement. If so, please post the link.

Hence the words "in my opinion." LOL!
 
What I am doing is applying the facts to the law and determining that there is a violation of a law for which BK is duty bound to comply with.

BK did not violate any of her rights. She was not refused employment based on her religious beliefs. Have you tried a neutrality test?

1. Atheist refuses to wear pants.

2. Muslim refuses to wear pants.

3. Blonde refuses to wear pants.

4. Man refuses to wear pants.

5. Agnostic refuses to wear pants.

6. Paris Hilton refuses.....error...never mind.

7. Catholic refuses to wear pants.

8. Confused agnostic refuses to wear pants.

BK would give the same reaction in every single situation thus proving the discrimination is not based upon her personal religious beliefs.
 
They aren't.
but they actually are
she can follow her religious teachings and not wear pants
or she can wear pants and work at burger king
but she cannot adhere to her religious beliefs and work at burger king
that's what makes it discriminatory
no different than burger king insisting that only white employees could work there ... because as you would want to insist, burger king has a right to have the employees it chooses to have. the white ones

She can get a job elsewhere.
yes. the employer could also say - as you would have us believe - that it only hires white employees
those who are non-white should have to look elsewhere for a job

Nobody disrespected her or her religion.
other than to say that she must quit conforming to her religious practices - not wearing pants - if she wanted to work at burger king

As a business owner (for clarification, I am not), if I chose to have my employees where a uniform because I want to AVOID situations like this, that should be my right.
which is the same thing as saying if as a business owner you wanted to AVOID any racial tension in your store you should have the right to only hire white people
and you would be just as wrong in that position

If she cannot abide by the dress code, she can apply for employment at a business that does not have a dress code.
and if the need for adherence to that dress code is so compelling that burger king cannot reasonably make an exception to accommodate the employee's religious teachings, then she cannot legitimately be employed by burger king and must seek employment elsewhere
which brings us to the present circumstance. burger king gets to show the court why it would be unreasonable for it to allow the woman to wear a long skirt instead of pants
if they can make that argument stand before the court, then they will prevail
if they cannot, they will pay this woman a substantial amount for their failure to accommodate her religious beliefs as is required by federal law

Einstein advised us to make things as simple as possible, but NOT simpler
in my estimation, you are attempting to make a nuanced situation simpler than it actually is
in support of my belief i point you to the law suit that will go before the court for a finding to be made. if this matter were so simple, after the EEOC investigation and conclusion to file suit on behalf of the employee, i do not believe it would now be a matter for the court to resolve
the court is not the place for the resolution of "simple" matters ... again, that is my opinion

It's not like Burger King is the creme de la creme of jobs anyway.
but as an employer, one that is less than a first tier employer, it must adhere to the federal laws which govern non-discrimination
doesn't matter how crappy those jobs may be
 
but they actually are
she can follow her religious teachings and not wear pants
or she can wear pants and work at burger king
but she cannot adhere to her religious beliefs and work at burger king
that's what makes it discriminatory
no different than burger king insisting that only white employees could work there ... because as you would want to insist, burger king has a right to have the employees it chooses to have. the white ones


yes. the employer could also say - as you would have us believe - that it only hires white employees
those who are non-white should have to look elsewhere for a job


other than to say that she must quit conforming to her religious practices - not wearing pants - if she wanted to work at burger king


which is the same thing as saying if as a business owner you wanted to AVOID any racial tension in your store you should have the right to only hire white people
and you would be just as wrong in that position


and if the need for adherence to that dress code is so compelling that burger king cannot reasonably make an exception to accommodate the employee's religious teachings, then she cannot legitimately be employed by burger king and must seek employment elsewhere
which brings us to the present circumstance. burger king gets to show the court why it would be unreasonable for it to allow the woman to wear a long skirt instead of pants
if they can make that argument stand before the court, then they will prevail
if they cannot, they will pay this woman a substantial amount for their failure to accommodate her religious beliefs as is required by federal law


Einstein advised us to make things as simple as possible, but NOT simpler
in my estimation, you are attempting to make a nuanced situation simpler than it actually is
in support of my belief i point you to the law suit that will go before the court for a finding to be made. if this matter were so simple, after the EEOC investigation and conclusion to file suit on behalf of the employee, i do not believe it would now be a matter for the court to resolve
the court is not the place for the resolution of "simple" matters ... again, that is my opinion


but as an employer, one that is less than a first tier employer, it must adhere to the federal laws which govern non-discrimination
doesn't matter how crappy those jobs may be

What you're referring to now is racism. That is completely different than not allowing someone to wear a skirt at work and requiring that ALL employees wear the same uniform. Nobody is being treated any more or less than equal IMO.
 
Both are fine.

Not according to what you said.

No, it's not an all or nothing deal. And yes, reasonable accommodations are applied equally.

For the way the law is framed yes it is.

Now, whats reasonable to you? Would (to use an example from another poster) a Pastafarian be allowed to wear their strainer hat? Or how about the guy that has all those rings pictured in a previous post? How about a Satanic religion...are those covered?
 
What you're referring to now is racism. That is completely different than not allowing someone to wear a skirt at work and requiring that ALL employees wear the same uniform. Nobody is being treated any more or less than equal IMO.

title VII does not discriminate
it prohibits employers from discriminating based on race or religion (or color or gender or national origin)
which means, just as it makes it unlawful for an employer to refuse to hire someone because they of a specific race, they are similarly prohibited from refusing to hire someone because they practice a particular religion (so long as the accommodations required to employ that person are not found unreasonable)
 
The woman had a right not to be discriminated against based on her religion in the the pursuit and execution of that job.

And she wasn't. She was told to go home by the orientation instructor when she came to work in a skirt. His sending her home had NOTHING to do with her religion. It had EVERYTHING to do with BK's dress code policy. The only people that made this about religion was her and those supporting her.
 
let me help you out, then

the pentecost woman cannot wear pants and also be consistent with the teachings of her G_d as she understands them to be
burger king insists that she wear pants
so, now she is placed in a position where she must decide to obey burger king or her G_d
burger king cannot unreasonably place her in that position to have to choose between the two

BK didn't. She did when she voluntarily put in her application to apply for the job at BK. She put herself in that situation. BK did not force her to apply for the job.
 
And she wasn't. She was told to go home by the orientation instructor when she came to work in a skirt. His sending her home had NOTHING to do with her religion. It had EVERYTHING to do with BK's dress code policy. The only people that made this about religion was her and those supporting her.

the reason she showed up in a skirt was two-fold
1. it conformed to her RELIGIOUS practice (one you seem intent to ignore)
2. it conformed with the agreement she had from the burger king official who authorized her employment
 
1. it conformed to her RELIGIOUS practice (one you seem intent to ignore)

I ignore it because the only ones makeing it about her religion are her and those that support her. The orientation instructor did his job and nothing more. He did not tell her to go home because of her religious beliefs.

2. it conformed with the agreement she had from the burger king official who authorized her employment

An official who did not have the authority to change BK policy. He was the one that was in the wrong in all of this. Not BK, not the orientation instructor. And she holds some blame to for i'm sure that she knew the dress code of BK. A person would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to not know it.
 
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