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Middle-class poorer, earned less in 2000s

Mach said:
The standard of living in the U.S., and our culture, is such that people given the choice, simply do not want to keep cranking on the rat race the way their parents did. Can you blame them?
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Speaking of the standard of living, it's getting worse for future generations. We are now living on money-steroids, thus far 16 trillion of borrowed steroids and counting. Now when the future generations have to pay that money back, it will be devastating. First there will not be anymore money borrowed, this will force every American to go to AA to recover. Second to make matters worse they will have to dig deep in their pocket to pay this steroid-money back. Instead of their money going to provide a better standard of living and infrastructure, it's going to pay our debt, that we greedy bastards are living on. Surly they will thank us for our living high on the hog while they live on peanuts because any money they do have will go to pay off debt.
 
Born Free said:
You wonder why unions are shrinking, first is because liberals have controlled congress for 6 yrs now. Second liberals controlled all three branches of government for two yrs during this time period. Last liberals kill economic growth, thus 8+% unemployment, a GDP of 1.5%, and an increased 6 trillion added to the national debt under Obama in just 4 yrs. You're right it's not working under Obama and liberal leadership. Further there are more poor under Obama than ever before, the middle class is taking home less in wages under Obama, more people on food stamps than ever before under Obama, the black community unemployment is over 14% under Obama, etc etc Liberalism is not working.
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They've been shrinking for a long time. So, your explanation really doesn't hold.

Still, you are not really answering the question. Taxes are low. Unions are shrinking. The growth TD says will come with this has not come. Screaming liberals are bad doesn't answer the question.
 
Schutzengel said:
Tax rates are lower than when? Which tax rates?(because there are lots) as well as total tax burden

The taxes Americans really pay, in two graphs - The Washington Post
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From you link.

So if you take into account the total tax burden, most everyone is paying, and they’re paying surprisingly similar effective rates. And it’s easy enough to understand why someone struggling to make it on $30,000 a year would chafe at paying 25 percent to the tax man in a way that someone cruising along at $500,000 wouldn’t.
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Interesting, but this is more what I'm speaking to:

Today's income tax rates are strikingly low relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people. For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today.

Read more: THE TRUTH ABOUT TAXES: High Rates On Rich People Do Not Hurt The Economy - Business Insider
 
American said:
The govt isn't spending less. What solution are you talking about? There are more little govt fees everywhere than before, so I don't know what you're talking about.
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Nice effort at trying to redirect the conversation. However, the issue I'm speaking to is low taxes and unions shrinking. TD suggests these things mean jobs. I asked him to explain why with these things jobs haven't happened.
 
Boo Radley said:
They've been shrinking for a long time. So, your explanation really doesn't hold.

Still, you are not really answering the question. Taxes are low. Unions are shrinking. The growth TD says will come with this has not come. Screaming liberals are bad doesn't answer the question.
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Let me give you one tiny example, we send 500 billion a yr to Oil Lords, bring that money home and all the jobs that go with it, and this country would boom. Does Keystone mean anything to you. It should those are union jobs, along with drilling jobs.

Now lets take California and San Francisco an extreme liberal state, and home to Pelosi, guess what, they outsourced the building of the San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge to China, all union jobs. These are liberals I'm talking about.
 
lpast said:
Ryan will fix this malais with the middle class...He will destroy medicare and give Romney a big TAX CUT...because the rich have gotten fabulously richer while pay half the taxs and they deserve more....and thats why im not a republican anymore folks...


For the first time since at least World War II, middle-class families finished the first decade of the 21st century poorer and with lower incomes than they had 10 years earlier.
And 85% of those surveyed say that in the 2000s, it was harder than before to maintain a middle-class lifestyle, according to a study out Wednesday by the Pew Research Center for Social and Demographic Trends.
Median household income dropped nearly $3,500 for a three-person household, to $69,487 a year, the Pew study said. The median household's net worth dropped 28% to $93,150. Incomes have dropped since 2000, while wealth rose modestly early in the decade before gains were wiped out by the recession that began in 2007 recession and the financial crisis sparked in 2008, said Paul Taylor, a Pew executive vice president.



"That the middle class always enjoys a rising standard of living is part of America's sense of itself, and it has always been true - until now," Taylor said in an interview, describing the 2000s as a "lost decade" for the middle class. "It's been 11 years since the peak in household incomes, and that covers the early part of the decade as well."
The middle class grew smaller, poorer and more pessimistic during the decade, Pew said after analyzing both its own polling data and a raft of government and private economic reports. The results show even a weakening of Americans' traditional faith that their children will be better off than their parents, Taylor said: 43% of respondents think their children will be richer than they are, down from 51% in 2008.


Study: Middle-class poorer, earned less in 2000s
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Giving the rich tax breaks on capital gains only serves to enrich the pockets of China and Brazil and other developing countries, while US jobs get cut. Then China lends the money back to us and charges us interest. How in the world people think giving so-called "job creators" more money to spend shipping jobs to these foreign countries ends up helping Americans is beyond me.
 
Born Free said:
Speaking of the standard of living, it's getting worse for future generations. We are now living on money-steroids, thus far 16 trillion of borrowed steroids and counting. Now when the future generations have to pay that money back, it will be devastating. First there will not be anymore money borrowed, this will force every American to go to AA to recover. Second to make matters worse they will have to dig deep in their pocket to pay this steroid-money back. Instead of their money going to provide a better standard of living and infrastructure, it's going to pay our debt, that we greedy bastards are living on. Surly they will thank us for our living high on the hog while they live on peanuts because any money they do have will go to pay off debt.
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The potential standard of living is getting worse, I agree. To many of us we think that large debt/defecit is a cost that's eventually going ot have to be paid.
Some people on these forums however, for example, believe not just that it won't be a big issue, that we never have to or should consider paying it back. Which is correct? I don't know, but I'll hedge my bets personally.
 
Mach said:
The potential standard of living is getting worse, I agree. To many of us we think that large debt/defecit is a cost that's eventually going ot have to be paid.
Some people on these forums however, for example, believe not just that it won't be a big issue, that we never have to or should consider paying it back. Which is correct? I don't know, but I'll hedge my bets personally.
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There are many on the left and to be honest some on the right, think there is an endless supply of money. Then there are those of us that think we have to pay it back or follow in the steps of some of the failing countries in Europe. Our future generations are going to pay a heavy price for us living on borrowed money, it will make no difference if the money is paid back or not. The results of not paying it back will be the same if we did. Greece is a perfect example of what our future generations will be facing.
 
Born Free said:
Let me give you one tiny example, we send 500 billion a yr to Oil Lords, bring that money home and all the jobs that go with it, and this country would boom. Does Keystone mean anything to you. It should those are union jobs, along with drilling jobs.

Now lets take California and San Francisco an extreme liberal state, and home to Pelosi, guess what, they outsourced the building of the San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge to China, all union jobs. These are liberals I'm talking about.
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No doubt about, coutries like China are definately cheaper. And if you think we should copy China, we can. But they are a communist country. Is that what you really want us to copy?
 
Poor-er?

As if we're poor or something to begin with?

I thought being middle class meant we're not poor - silly me!
 
Born Free said:
There are many on the left and to be honest some on the right, think there is an endless supply of money. Then there are those of us that think we have to pay it back or follow in the steps of some of the failing countries in Europe. Our future generations are going to pay a heavy price for us living on borrowed money, it will make no difference if the money is paid back or not. The results of not paying it back will be the same if we did. Greece is a perfect example of what our future generations will be facing.
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>.< Yes debt generally needs to be paid back. No, most of Europe is not failing because of debt or deficits. Spain was a model of fiscal responsibility right before plunging into crisis. Greece was not; but Greece was allowed to be what it was because the Eurozone masked its dramatic risks and failings.

This myth that Europe is failing because of excessive spending and borrowing needs to be put down with prejudice. It. Is. Not. What. Happened.
 
Paschendale said:
I really have no clue where you get that impression from. More people are attending college than ever before. More people are studying hard to learn more complex skills to obtain better jobs. More engineers, more journalists, more web designers, more teachers, more chefs, more technical writers, more everything. More people are striving harder than ever before. Job openings are swarmed with applications. And not just the "good" jobs. Minimum wage jobs. Part time jobs at the dollar store. Making sandwiches at Subway. Nurses. Insurance salesman, even! The rat race is on like it has never been.
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He's right. It's seems as though more and a more young people today have a sense of entitlement: "I went to college and spent four years of my life stuudying art and marketing, dammit! I DEMAND a job!" They never stop to consider what they're actually worth to an employer. They don't want to get their nails dirty or work for less than what they think they're entitled to. Instead, they'd rather sit on their asses and occupy Wall Street. Meanwhile, an employer could care less about the tens of thousands of dollars they racked up in Stafford loans. Maybe they should have apprenticed as plumbers instead.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Poor-er?

As if we're poor or something to begin with?

I thought being middle class meant we're not poor - silly me!
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The middel class is shrinking, which I think is the point. And yes, it is in some ways better to be poor here than many other places (and this is a good thing), but the direction we're traveling seems to be going the wrong way. The trend is down and not up. Now, I also don't presidents are the problem, certainly not alone. There are a lot of problems and many of them not easy fixes. That said, one problem is the link between government and wealthy (business included). Money makes both too dependent on the other.
 
Yep! I have read this few days ago and I've come to view more about this. I found another article here: Middle class share of economy lowest since WWII.

And I must say this must be the new talk of the town.

As the issue goes further, Timothy Smeeding, a University of Wisconsin-Madison economics professor, said:

“These are the disaffected middle class who work hard and play by the rules of society, but increasingly see their situation declining by forces beyond their control. No matter who is president, the climb back up for the middle class and the recovery will be slow and often painful.”

:2wave:
 
KylieB said:
Yep! I have read this few days ago and I've come to view more about this. I found another article here: Middle class share of economy lowest since WWII.

And I must say this must be the new talk of the town.

As the issue goes further, Timothy Smeeding, a University of Wisconsin-Madison economics professor, said:

“These are the disaffected middle class who work hard and play by the rules of society, but increasingly see their situation declining by forces beyond their control. No matter who is president, the climb back up for the middle class and the recovery will be slow and often painful.”

:2wave:
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All the while the rich got fabulously richer during the same period..."TAKING" from the middleclass and now they want even MORE...time to put the brakes on it the trough theyve been feeding at is empty
 
This is likely to make me somewhat unpopular but my first post is going to put some of the blame where it belongs. I am not totally convinced that the middle class didn't cause their own problems at least to some degree. By allowing themselves to be convinced by advertisers to buy all the unnecessary gizmos and gadgets because they tell them they have to have them to stay current. Middle class parents not finding the strength to put their foot down and limit their children on how many of the have-to-have items that come out each year. They don't need a new phone every time the new model comes out. They don't need the fancy pair of $100+ shoes that come out. They also don't need that pair of shoes or that phone for themselves. I know that we need money flowing in this country but until we stop reacting to every glamorous ad that is selling the latest unnecessary product, the middle class will never find firmer ground and know what they can afford and what they can't.
 
My purely hypothetical solution?

Get all the non-political/bureaucratic civilians out of Washington D.C..

Blow up Washington D.C. during a workday.

Start again.
 
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