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Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

Wiseone said:
No where does it say it was a violation of school rules, you made that up. And besides what kind of Libertarian supports the idea of public schools, part of the government, being allowed to tell people what they can and cannot say to this kind of a degree.
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Public schools should be abolished altogether. But that is a topic for another thread.

As it stands, public schools do exist, and they can tell kids what they can and cannot say.
 
EnigmaIncognito said:
Sometimes rules need to be broken. A little disobedience goes a long way to ensuring that people don't become over-compliant with any relation to authority and take a skeptical perspective with established methods of social conduct.
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Disobedience has consequences. Only petulant children think otherwise.
 
All schools have cussin policies. However once a diploma has been earned I don't see the reasonableness of denying a diploma to a high merit student. Not that a school system needs to be reasonable. Problem is once the school board/member/principle dug in their/his/her heels there isn't a graceful way to admit there isn't a lot they can do to the merit student. I'm sure the policy manual doesn't list denial of diploma if a student says a cuss word.

Not a rant, not cussing out a teacher, not threatening anyone.

Not drinking or doing drugs

Didn't cheat on finals.

Seems to me this is like hanging someone for jaywalking.
 
I found the local TV station that was the origin of the story - they have some strange folks in the area

at 7:30 PM EDST, here's the list of MOST VIEWED videos

Most Viewed

School withholds valedictorian's diploma for saying "hell"
Mother accused of allowing uncle to impregnate her daughter
Weather
GRAPHIC - Elderly man arrested violating pig at school barn
Daughter fights to keep father on sex offender registry
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notquiteright said:
I Sir stand corrected... ;)
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A small point but it's the whole crux of the issue for me. Sure the punishment is extreme. But all she had to do to avoid it was to apologize for the thing she did wrong. The foul language isn't the problem, it is her obstinacy in refusing to apologize.
 
Wiseone said:
No where does it say it was a violation of school rules, you made that up. And besides what kind of Libertarian supports the idea of public schools, part of the government, being allowed to tell people what they can and cannot say to this kind of a degree.
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Guy Incognito said:
Public schools should be abolished altogether. But that is a topic for another thread.

As it stands, public schools do exist, and they can tell kids what they can and cannot say.
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And I don't suppose that no where have you shown, and no where has it been shown, that saying "hell" is a violation of any school policy has affected your opinion in the least?

For a libertarian you certainly have a lot of respect for institutions that you don't agree with, even going so far as to make assumptions about the situation that favor their actions. Curious...
 
Wiseone said:
And I don't suppose that no where have you shown, and no where has it been shown, that saying "hell" is a violation of any school policy has affected your opinion in the least?

For a libertarian you certainly have a lot of respect for institutions that you don't agree with, even going so far as to make assumptions about the situation that favor their actions. Curious...
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I simply cannot fathom the level of petulance and immaturity that would lead one to conclude that a child should not apologize for her disobedience.
 
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Is nothing sacred anymore?
 
Wiseone said:
And I don't suppose that no where have you shown, and no where has it been shown, that saying "hell" is a violation of any school policy has affected your opinion in the least?

For a libertarian you certainly have a lot of respect for institutions that you don't agree with, even going so far as to make assumptions about the situation that favor their actions. Curious...
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Guy Incognito said:
I simply cannot fathom the level of petulance and immaturity that would lead one to conclude that a child should not apologize for her disobedience.
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Again, and again, you don't know that she disobeyed anything. Let me repeat myself, nothing has shown that there was a school policy against cursing or that hell would be considered a curse word. You've concluded she's violated a school policy without demonstrating there was a school policy, do you not see the problem with this line of reasoning?

I imagine I'm going to have to repeat myself again.

If it was a violation of policy, I'd probably write the apology letter and just move on and leave these over sensitive control freaks to their school.
 
Wiseone said:
Again, and again, you don't know that she disobeyed anything. Let me repeat myself, nothing has shown that there was a school policy against cursing or that hell would be considered a curse word. You've concluded she's violated a school policy without demonstrating there was a school policy, do you not see the problem with this line of reasoning?

I imagine I'm going to have to repeat myself again.

If it was a violation of policy, I'd probably write the apology letter and just move on and leave these over sensitive control freaks to their school.
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I am shocked to see people, ostensibly grown adults, defending the actions of kid who refuses to apologize for her wrongful behavior. It is astonishing, really. Sad. Pathetic. Not to mention a bad example for our nation's children.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Disobedience has consequences. Only petulant children think otherwise.
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Why do I get visions of Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' whenever I read your posts on this subject?

 
Wiggen said:
Why do I get visions of Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' whenever I read your posts on this subject?
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If you don't apologize you don't get your diploma! HOW CAN YOU GET YOUR DIPLOMA IF YOU DON'T APOLOGIZE?
 
Guy Incognito said:
I am shocked to see people, ostensibly grown adults, defending the actions of kid who refuses to apologize for her wrongful behavior. It is astonishing, really. Sad. Pathetic. Not to mention a bad example for our nation's children.
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How many times do I have to say it? We still haven't verified that wrongful behavior took place. I knew I'd have to repeat myself. You're so sure that some policy or rule has been violated but there's nothing to demonstrate that, I've yet to see and you've yet to actually see this school's policies and rules. Hell even the superintendent is saying the reason is confidential, which could mean anything or it could mean nothing but it doesn't show that some policy has been violated.

Now, please continue to talk about some rule or policy being violated without even knowing if such a rule or policy exists.

You know for a libertarian you're sounding awfully authoritarian. Hell you said yourself that public schools shouldn't even exist, but you demand ironclad obedience to them? In addition to demanding absolute obedience of children to their parents, even though the child is a legal adult. Goes to show that you can't take much stock in what people call themselves until you've really heard what they have to say.
 
Somerville said:
when news sites in other countries are posting something this inconsequential, you gotta think they believe the US is just a bit 'off'
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Well it was in Oklahoma. Even Arizona isn't that hosed up yet. But, yeah, that's the America we live in.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Why on earth would anyone take the side of the disobedient child in this dispute?
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Are you asking this seriously?

If you worked all week and said the word hell, could your boss withhold your check?
 
EnigmaIncognito said:
Sometimes rules need to be broken. A little disobedience goes a long way to ensuring that people don't become over-compliant with any relation to authority and take a skeptical perspective with established methods of social conduct.
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That is not even the point.

She earned her diploma with extremely hard work, got the best grades in school, and they deny her the diploma based on an arbitrary rule about what word can be used or not used.

I doubt she did it to make a point by breaking a rule, but as an adult she has the right to say anything she pleases with no consequences from anybody.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I simply cannot fathom the level of petulance and immaturity that would lead one to conclude that a child should not apologize for her disobedience.
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If she is over 18, which she probably is, she has every right to say anything she wants to.

Please provide any evidence that saying a simple word is grounds for withholding her diploma.
 
Wiseone said:
How many times do I have to say it? We still haven't verified that wrongful behavior took place. I knew I'd have to repeat myself. You're so sure that some policy or rule has been violated but there's nothing to demonstrate that, I've yet to see and you've yet to actually see this school's policies and rules. Hell even the superintendent is saying the reason is confidential, which could mean anything or it could mean nothing but it doesn't show that some policy has been violated.

Now, please continue to talk about some rule or policy being violated without even knowing if such a rule or policy exists.

You know for a libertarian you're sounding awfully authoritarian. Hell you said yourself that public schools shouldn't even exist, but you demand ironclad obedience to them? In addition to demanding absolute obedience of children to their parents, even though the child is a legal adult. Goes to show that you can't take much stock in what people call themselves until you've really heard what they have to say.
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You used the word "Hell"

You sir will not be receiving your diploma, earned or not!
 
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