• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Julian Assange will be granted asylum, says official

So which legal system would you consider fair? Obviously not Sweden, not the U.S., clearly not the British since they approved his extradition. Who? The Russian? The Syrian? the Ecuadoran? The Cuban? Which?

I am guessing Iran.
 
So which legal system would you consider fair? Obviously not Sweden, not the U.S., clearly not the British since they approved his extradition. Who? The Russian? The Syrian? the Ecuadoran? The Cuban? Which?
I think no court system is 100% fair.
 
It is, at the very least, fairer than most. We also have a free press, who would be monitoring the trial. This is all moot since there is no evidence currently that the US intends to ask for extradition nor that Assange is even charged with a crime.

And yet the entire reason for Assange to seek asylum isn't because of the charges in Sweden. It is over fear that he will be sent here and charged with who knows what, prosecuted as a spy or some such, sent to Guantanamo, and tortured. All of this despite how we protect the freedom of the press in this country. He (reasonably) does not expect his rights to be protected, and expects to be extradited if he is taken into custody by the English or Swedish. Considering the outcry for his assassination, and the treatment of Bradley Manning, Assange is quite justified in his fears. The reason he was granted asylum was to protect him from overreach by the United States, not to protect him from prosecution in Sweden.
 
And yet the entire reason for Assange to seek asylum isn't because of the charges in Sweden. It is over fear that he will be sent here and charged with who knows what, prosecuted as a spy or some such, sent to Guantanamo, and tortured. All of this despite how we protect the freedom of the press in this country. He (reasonably) does not expect his rights to be protected, and expects to be extradited if he is taken into custody by the English or Swedish. Considering the outcry for his assassination, and the treatment of Bradley Manning, Assange is quite justified in his fears. The reason he was granted asylum was to protect him from overreach by the United States, not to protect him from prosecution in Sweden.

That is the reason he claims, yes. That does not mean it is the real reason, nor is it likely to happen.
 
That is the reason he claims, yes. That does not mean it is the real reason, nor is it likely to happen.

Seeking asylum is a pretty extreme reaction to being accused of a not very serious crime. Assange wouldn't be looking at a huge penalty if convicted, and since he keeps asserting that he is innocent, he should be able to put on a pretty good defense and either plea bargain (if they don't that in Sweden, I don't know much about their processes), or possibly be acquitted. Famous people tend not to go to jail for this sort of thing. But asylum? That's what you seek when you fear for your life and for your freedom. Not in the short term, but fear that a government is going to kill you or lock you up and throw away the key. The efforts that Assange has gone through to avoid extradition would be incredibly overblown if they were merely to avoid a trial for these sexual offense allegations.
 
Apparenlty not as much as Assange has against judicial procedure - at least Swedish judicial procedure. I continue to be amused by the sprited defense offered to the Austalian rapist.

Assange has not been subjected to any Swedish judicial procedure since he has not been charged with any crime in Sweden. He is merely wanted for questioning.

Why can't the Swedes go to England to question him?
Don't they have a telephone? They could call him.
 
Apparently the widespread love being shown to the Australian rapist is not shared by the people of Sweden. But then they've always been right wing lapdogs of the United States, as proven by their membership in Nato:lamo....uh.....there numerous military alliances with the U.S:lamohow they joined with us to defeat the scourge of Nazism:lamo......uh....there must be something.....:lamo

Assange asylum seen as travesty of justice in Sweden - Yahoo! News
Sweden has a history of assisting the USA with their torture activities.

Sweden Violated Torture Ban in CIA Rendition
Sweden Violated Torture Ban in CIA Rendition | Human Rights Watch

That is why Assange does not want to go there.

So why don't the Swedes question him in England? He has not been charged with anything.
 
It is, at the very least, fairer than most. We also have a free press, who would be monitoring the trial. This is all moot since there is no evidence currently that the US intends to ask for extradition nor that Assange is even charged with a crime.

You mean like the trials on GITMO, and the journalist monitoring of rendition flights and torture? Or called Bush on his Iraq lies in the lead up to the war?

Or the US court houses that allowed the state killing of mentally handicapped or the innocent?

The US court system is a joke. It is based on money and those with money can get off easy, where as those with no money go away for life for lesser crimes.

The problem here is... all the so called "fair" part of the US justice system can be pissed on if he is categorised as an "enemy combatant" and put under military control and we will most likely never see him again.
 
You mean like the trials on GITMO, and the journalist monitoring of rendition flights and torture? Or called Bush on his Iraq lies in the lead up to the war?

Or the US court houses that allowed the state killing of mentally handicapped or the innocent?

The US court system is a joke. It is based on money and those with money can get off easy, where as those with no money go away for life for lesser crimes.

The problem here is... all the so called "fair" part of the US justice system can be pissed on if he is categorised as an "enemy combatant" and put under military control and we will most likely never see him again.

Yes Pete, because an enemy combatant captured in a war zone is just like some one charged with a crime and extradited. Oh wait, they not not just alike...

Let's face it, Assange doesn't want to face possible criminal charges for his actions and so he is trading on his fame and building this paranoid fantasy that those of you jealous of the US are just buying into.
 
Yes Pete, because an enemy combatant captured in a war zone is just like some one charged with a crime and extradited. Oh wait, they not not just alike...

Let's face it, Assange doesn't want to face possible criminal charges for his actions and so he is trading on his fame and building this paranoid fantasy that those of you jealous of the US are just buying into.
There are lots of things to be jealous of the US, such as the constitution, but the justice system is not one of them.

The problem with the US justice system is that it heavily favours the rich, large corporations and the goverment. Also it doesn't seem to be very well balanced as some people get nothing while others get millions even though they didn't deserve it.
 
Yes Pete, because an enemy combatant captured in a war zone is just like some one charged with a crime and extradited. Oh wait, they not not just alike...

Yet the "enemy combatant" designation can be put on American citizens, too. It's a catch-all that the government can use to essentially convict someone without any kind of process. Between the NDAA and the Patriot Act, Assange, or you or I, could be designated an enemy combatant and essentially lose all our rights without any recourse.

Let's face it, Assange doesn't want to face possible criminal charges for his actions and so he is trading on his fame and building this paranoid fantasy that those of you jealous of the US are just buying into.

You sound like Turtledude.
 
Assange has not been subjected to any Swedish judicial procedure since he has not been charged with any crime in Sweden. He is merely wanted for questioning.

Why can't the Swedes go to England to question him?
Don't they have a telephone? They could call him.

Ridiculous. You don't investigate a crime over the telephone.
 
You mean like the trials on GITMO, and the journalist monitoring of rendition flights and torture? Or called Bush on his Iraq lies in the lead up to the war?

Or the US court houses that allowed the state killing of mentally handicapped or the innocent?

The US court system is a joke. It is based on money and those with money can get off easy, where as those with no money go away for life for lesser crimes.

The problem here is... all the so called "fair" part of the US justice system can be pissed on if he is categorised as an "enemy combatant" and put under military control and we will most likely never see him again.

Pete EU, the man who only avoids saying seig heil in the morning because a lot of Americans died for his freedom, comes through with more of his anti-American bull****.
 
Yet the "enemy combatant" designation can be put on American citizens, too. It's a catch-all that the government can use to essentially convict someone without any kind of process. Between the NDAA and the Patriot Act, Assange, or you or I, could be designated an enemy combatant and essentially lose all our rights without any recourse.



You sound like Turtledude.

And you sound a lot like every other anti-American on this forum.
 
And you sound a lot like every other anti-American on this forum.

It's anti-American to be upset when your country is going down the wrong path? When it steers away from liberty and towards fear and oppression? There is absolutely nothing that Assange or WikiLeaks could do to damage the strength of this country. They can embarrass the individual members of our government, but they're not what the United States is. The whole nation, and our system of democracy and freedom are. When a member of our government does something duplicitous, or harms the integrity of this nation, especially for personal gain, then that person should be exposed, disgraced, and removed. The US government is one of the most powerful organizations in the world. Its actions need to be public and transparent (with a few exceptions, of course, like the positions of troops in hostile territory, which WikiLeaks did not reveal).

Patriotism isn't pretending that your country never makes mistakes. It's having the courage to oppose your country when it does. That's the only way a nation improves itself and protects itself from corruption and tyranny.
 
Ridiculous. You don't investigate a crime over the telephone.

No - so why don't the Swedish authorities travel to England to interview him?

They could be there and back in an afternoon?!?!

What is the problem?
 
Yes Pete, because an enemy combatant captured in a war zone is just like some one charged with a crime and extradited. Oh wait, they not not just alike...

Quite a number of "enemy combatants" at GITMO were no where near a warzone. People have been grabbed off streets and airports ranging from Canada, Ghana and several European cities. Quite a few of these "enemy combatants" were actually grabbed in Pakistan.

Let's face it, Assange doesn't want to face possible criminal charges for his actions and so he is trading on his fame and building this paranoid fantasy that those of you jealous of the US are just buying into.

The US government has floated the idea that they want him.. that is enough for him and for me. I dont like Assange, I think he is a creap, but like it or not, the Swedish prosecutor is just as much to blame for the situation. She wants to question him... but refuses to do it in London. All this could go away if she did her ****ing job. But no, this has become a political football in Sweden, where the law that she wants to use to put Assange in jail, is very very controversial.
 
Yes Pete, because an enemy combatant captured in a war zone is just like some one charged with a crime and extradited. Oh wait, they not not just alike...

Let's face it, Assange doesn't want to face possible criminal charges for his actions and so he is trading on his fame and building this paranoid fantasy that those of you jealous of the US are just buying into.

WTF are you on about?
Let's get a few facts straight:

Assange has not been charged with any crime, but the Vice President calls him a terrorist
Bradley Manning has been imprisoned for over 800 days without trial
David Hicks was convicted of a crime that did not exist when he was captured
The USA tortures people.
The USA executes people.

The US justice system is 100% dodgy. The USA cannot be trusted.

Of course Assange wants to avoid it.
THe USA is a rogue state.
 
No - so why don't the Swedish authorities travel to England to interview him?
It's only a guess but maybe for legal reasons they can't or don't want to arrest and charge him prior to interviewing him. If they did this in England, they wouldn't be able to arrest him immediately after the interview - they'd then have to apply for extradition. This would give him the opportunity to flee and he has clearly demonstrated he is a flight risk.

The fact remains that they have the legal right to request his extradition for questioning and the UK has the responsibility to respond to that request. Assange has alleged that he is at risk of being sent on the the USA if extradited to Sweden but hasn't been able to provide any evidence of that risk (certainly not to satisfy the UK courts).

The supporters of Assange's actions and Ecuador's response are basically saying that all anyone needs to do is claim there is some risk and they should be allowed an exception to the laws as written. That would be a dangerous president, ironically the kind of president that governments are accused of using to circumvent the law when they want. Assange is no better than the people he opposes.
 
No - so why don't the Swedish authorities travel to England to interview him?

They could be there and back in an afternoon?!?!

What is the problem?

Because you don't get special treatment just because you're a hero to the anti-American left. Only in the wet dreams of the Far Left does that happen.
 
Quite a number of "enemy combatants" at GITMO were no where near a warzone. People have been grabbed off streets and airports ranging from Canada, Ghana and several European cities. Quite a few of these "enemy combatants" were actually grabbed in Pakistan.



The US government has floated the idea that they want him.. that is enough for him and for me. I dont like Assange, I think he is a creap, but like it or not, the Swedish prosecutor is just as much to blame for the situation. She wants to question him... but refuses to do it in London. All this could go away if she did her ****ing job. But no, this has become a political football in Sweden, where the law that she wants to use to put Assange in jail, is very very controversial.

Look on the bright side. It gives you the opportunity to trot out your anti-american vitriol every time the subject comes up. I'm just disappointed there's no reference to 'Gitmo' in this post.
 
It's anti-American to be upset when your country is going down the wrong path? When it steers away from liberty and towards fear and oppression? There is absolutely nothing that Assange or WikiLeaks could do to damage the strength of this country. They can embarrass the individual members of our government, but they're not what the United States is. The whole nation, and our system of democracy and freedom are. When a member of our government does something duplicitous, or harms the integrity of this nation, especially for personal gain, then that person should be exposed, disgraced, and removed. The US government is one of the most powerful organizations in the world. Its actions need to be public and transparent (with a few exceptions, of course, like the positions of troops in hostile territory, which WikiLeaks did not reveal).

Patriotism isn't pretending that your country never makes mistakes. It's having the courage to oppose your country when it does. That's the only way a nation improves itself and protects itself from corruption and tyranny.

That's the difference between you and me. You are willing to turn the diplomatic secrets of this country over to an Australian rapist and let him make the decisions as to what gets released and what doesn't. I'm not.

Patriotism isn't trashing your country at every opportunity and siding with those who wish it to fail, either.
 
Because you don't get special treatment just because you're a hero to the anti-American left. Only in the wet dreams of the Far Left does that happen.

I would say he is getting special treatment now. They are paying 500K USD pounds per week for security and is threatening to storm the embassy and destroy their relationship with Latin America for a guy that used no condom during sex.
 
He gave a great speech a couple days ago. Its about time we stand up for freedom, democracy, and transparency. All fundamental to a correctly function democracy.
 
Back
Top Bottom