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School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens[W:150]

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

There's no doubt that this policy won't fly and that's the point I'm making.

The fuax outrage over this is just another chance for the hand-wringers to beat up on fill in your favorite politically incorrect group here
Many of the charter schools are actually creating positive changes in their communities with standards and expectations that are higher than typical failing public schools. Well...I guess we cant have that. Im sure by the time we are finished we will happily drive them all back to mediocrity and then the lawyers will go back to DC and ignore the poverty and other problems they are currently facing and trying to overcome. Thats the part that does drive me a bit crazy. No one gave even a little bit of a damn about the failing schools, the failing communities, the higher than average poverty. God forbid someone actually attempt to CHANGE that. Their values and priorities are all KINDS of ****ed up...
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

The school doesn't actually have a problem, de jure, with being a parent, only the pregnancy itself. The women/girls can return to the attending normal classes after they have the child. So the whole "father's aren't being punished" thing is not only idiotic, it's completely baseless.

Well that's the whole point. The fathers aren't being punished at all, only the mothers are. Are the fathers removed from school during the pregnancy? No.

But don't let reality get in the way of a "good" talking points, and in liberal cant any kind of sex/race based bull**** is a "good talking a point" .

It's a violation of federal civil rights laws, as outlined previously. Publicly-funded schools cannot discriminate against someone on the basis of either gender or pregnancy. And mandating a pregnancy test is an unlawful search and seizure.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

They arent BEING kicked out...they are being given a home study course while they are pregnant. Is reading not your strong suit?

And Title IX specifically prohibits that on the basis of pregnancy, unless the student VOLUNTEERS to participate in a home study course. Is reading not your strong suit?

As for the ****ing HILARIOUS misogyny comment...this isnt ABOUT attacking women, it is about a SCHOOL actually...now...hang on...trying to HELP a community of people CHANGE from well below the poverty line and below average levels of academic achievement to ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING about bringing about change.

And how does banning pregnant girls in violation of federal civil rights laws factor into that?

Shocking...right? Not a bunch of worthless POS lawyers running around bleating about 'rights'..people in the trenches actually DOING something about it. **** that...cant have that. We should let people like you drive them back to mediocrity all in the name of fairness and their 'rights'...rights which...shockingly...NONE OF THEM actually seem to be bothered by. Hmmm...must be the actual STUDENTS and community members WANT higher standards and positive changes for their kids.

I, as a federal taxpayer whose money funds this school, have a problem with discrimination. And I would venture to say that someone in or associated with the school has a problem with it too, or the ACLU and the media would never have found out about it.

If you want to be able to discriminate and ban female students who get pregnant, you're going to need to first repeal Title IX, the 14th amendment, and the 4th amendment...then you can implement all the bigoted policies against women you want. Get back to me after you've done that, but as it stands now, the school is in violation of federal law.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Many of the charter schools are actually creating positive changes in their communities with standards and expectations that are higher than typical failing public schools. Well...I guess we cant have that. Im sure by the time we are finished we will happily drive them all back to mediocrity and then the lawyers will go back to DC and ignore the poverty and other problems they are currently facing and trying to overcome. Thats the part that does drive me a bit crazy. No one gave even a little bit of a damn about the failing schools, the failing communities, the higher than average poverty. God forbid someone actually attempt to CHANGE that. Their values and priorities are all KINDS of ****ed up...

Still waiting for you to explain how actually educating pregnant teenagers is "driving them back to mediocrity." It seems to me that it does precisely the opposite.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Still waiting for you to explain how actually educating pregnant teenagers is "driving them back to mediocrity." It seems to me that it does precisely the opposite.
They arent preventing or ceasing the education of pregnant teenagers. They are ensuring the student body does not see teen pregnancy as an acceptable and has become the case in many places DESIRED state. They are a school working to make a difference. You are...not. You bleat about 'rights' but dont truly give a **** about any of them. You didnt care about them before this became a news story and you wont care about them after its over. You dont care about their living circumstances, their employment and education opportunities or their future. You care about one thing...this ideological concept called a 'right'. Once this is resolved you will never give these people a second thought. meanwhile...the school and its administrators and staff will still be right there working to make a difference and you will move on to the next celeb cause du joir.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

They arent preventing or ceasing the education of pregnant teenagers.

Title IX prohibits them from forcing pregnant teenagers into alternate programs. So yes, they are.

They are ensuring the student body does not see teen pregnancy as an acceptable and has become the case in many places DESIRED state.

I don't know where you went to school, but pregnant girls in my high school were hardly idolized. Many students were cruel to them and called them sluts, because apparently they didn't have enough problems already. Other students were nice to them, but basically felt sorry for them. I don't know of anyone who thought "I wish I could be like that!" That's mostly just a moral panic concocted by the media.

They are a school working to make a difference. You are...not. You bleat about 'rights' but dont truly give a **** about any of them. You didnt care about them before this became a news story and you wont care about them after its over. You dont care about their living circumstances, their employment and education opportunities or their future. You care about one thing...this ideological concept called a 'right'.

First of all, let's not pretend that YOU gave a damn about any of them; you didn't even know this school existed until I posted this thread. And to answer your accusation: Yes, I am against discrimination and violations of federal civil rights laws. That doesn't mean I can't be against poverty too. :2wave:
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

I tried to post this last night but my internet decided it wasn't going to work anymore.

The statistic is so low, it is safe to assume that whatever girl was being mentioned knew all the guys she slept with, at least if not by First Middle and Last name, then at least by his thug "jump-up" name (Itz yo baby, Biggy T!) And that is why, specifically, your outrage over the 1% chance that she was legitimately raped by someone she didn't know is highly over the top.

GPS_Flex simply said that if a girl didn't know who she had sex with she shouldn't be in a charter school. I can't find the statistics on this but I can't imagine juvenile sex between 100% strangers, who never share their identities, is consensual anywhere close to 99% of the time. Most cases I know of where a girl has absolutely no idea who she had sex with it was a result of some sort of rape drug. In that case a girl doesn't need to be a stranger of her rapist to not know who she was raped by. So that little statistic of yours means absolutely nothing.

But that is also because it isn't a statics at all, it is a complete lie. Rapes among juveniles are committed by complete strangers 7% of the time (of course you weren't talking about juvenile rape specifically, and the average rate of rape by strangers is 33%). For a crime as serious as rape 7% can not be treated as a bizarre outlier, it is a relevant statistic. Especially considering 44% of all sexual assault is among juveniles, the demographic we are mainly talking about.

Statistics | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network

Facts and logic aren't on your side.

Its time to stop acting like asking woman to be responsible is sexism.

I doubt there is a massive portion of girls who have no idea who they had sex with because they just didn't care to know. That goes completely against the prevailing sociological data on the sexual attitudes and tendencies of girls. Males are much more likely to be having casual sex and are obviously almost exclusively the ones raping people (I'm not saying those two are connected). Thus while males are the ones primarily pushing for sex without attachments they are the ones who are not being burdened. One would think the physical stress of pregnancy would be enough, but now we are throwing girls the stress of loosing their education.

So the group that is, by all measures, least responsible is the only one being punished for irresponsibility. It absolutely is sexism to look at girls who are still minors and expect them to shoulder the entire burden for the consensual and non-consensual sexual activity that occurs around them. It is absolutely sexism when we go looking for new reasons to punish them, especially when we aren't even trying to find the fathers (who also might be able to threaten girls into silence).

Ignoring facts and logic to exclusively blame women for things men are more responsible for is basically the definition of sexism.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

The school doesn't actually have a problem, de jure, with being a parent, only the pregnancy itself. The women/girls can return to the attending normal classes after they have the child. So the whole "father's aren't being punished" thing is not only idiotic, it's completely baseless. But don't let reality get in the way of a "good" talking points, and in liberal cant any kind of sex/race based bull**** is a "good talking a point" .

So it's not getting pregnant, it's not underaged sex....the'yre punishing the girl for the act of physically having a fetus inside her essentially? That's your argument? And that's the argument you think is showing that this is okay?
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Title IX prohibits them from forcing pregnant teenagers into alternate programs. So yes, they are.



I don't know where you went to school, but pregnant girls in my high school were hardly idolized. Many students were cruel to them and called them sluts, because apparently they didn't have enough problems already. Other students were nice to them, but basically felt sorry for them. I don't know of anyone who thought "I wish I could be like that!" That's mostly just a moral panic concocted by the media.



First of all, let's not pretend that YOU gave a damn about any of them; you didn't even know this school existed until I posted this thread. And to answer your accusation: Yes, I am against discrimination and violations of federal civil rights laws. That doesn't mean I can't be against poverty too. :2wave:
No...I didnt know they existed. They did. They know the problem exists and they are actually working to change them. But people like you are going to rescue them from themselves...not because you care about the school or even the students. No...you care about an ideology.

We do similar things. We are sent people from the county providers...people that have been in the system a good portion of their lives and people the county has warehoused and thrown ineffective 'treatment' at til they finally give up on them. Then as soon as we start seeing progress the county swoops back in and says we have to do things their way...the same way that got them so horribly ****ed up in the first place. No...I dont know that school. Hey...I dont even know of any of their students because from all of the articles I read on it, no students or families had ever complained about the policy. But I do understand the systems. And I understand people sticking their beak in with no intent of whats best for individuals.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

No...I didnt know they existed. They did. They know the problem exists and they are actually working to change them. But people like you are going to rescue them from themselves...not because you care about the school or even the students. No...you care about an ideology.

If by "ideology" you mean "obeying federal civil rights laws," then yes, you can count me guilty as charged.

We do similar things. We are sent people from the county providers...people that have been in the system a good portion of their lives and people the county has warehoused and thrown ineffective 'treatment' at til they finally give up on them. Then as soon as we start seeing progress the county swoops back in and says we have to do things their way...the same way that got them so horribly ****ed up in the first place. No...I dont know that school. Hey...I dont even know of any of their students because from all of the articles I read on it, no students or families had ever complained about the policy. But I do understand the systems. And I understand people sticking their beak in with no intent of whats best for individuals.

You haven't even presented any explanation of why this is best for individuals, aside from "z0mg everyone will idolize the pregnant girl!!!1" And in any case, the school's assessment for what's best for individuals doesn't give them the authority to violate federal civil rights laws. If they want to do that, they can stop taking government money and become a private school.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

If by "ideology" you mean "obeying federal civil rights laws," then yes, you can count me guilty as charged.



You haven't even presented any explanation of why this is best for individuals, aside from "z0mg everyone will idolize the pregnant girl!!!1" And in any case, the school's assessment for what's best for individuals doesn't give them the authority to violate federal civil rights laws. If they want to do that, they can stop taking government money and become a private school.
You havent so much as presented where ANYONE outside of the ACLU has even expressed concern about this as a problem. There is a REASON why Charter Schools are springing up. Do you even have the first clue about the parish, about the existing public schools and the problems they faced prior to the establishment of the charter schools? Schools which, BTW, people have to CHOOSE to even TRY to get into and have to qualify to be accepted into? They are trying to make a difference. In many cases they ARE making a difference. Lord knows we cant have that.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

You havent so much as presented where ANYONE outside of the ACLU has even expressed concern about this as a problem.

I've expressed concern about this as a problem myself. As have a number of other people in this thread. And as taxpayers, we have reason to be outraged when our government funds discrimination and violates civil rights laws.

There is a REASON why Charter Schools are springing up. Do you even have the first clue about the parish, about the existing public schools and the problems they faced prior to the establishment of the charter schools? Schools which, BTW, people have to CHOOSE to even TRY to get into and have to qualify to be accepted into? They are trying to make a difference. In many cases they ARE making a difference. Lord knows we cant have that.

Well they'll have to make a difference within the requirements of civil rights laws, or cease taking government money. They aren't special.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens | Fox News
US School Forces Pregnancy Tests On Girls, Excluding Those Who Are Pregnant Or Refuse
Get Tested Or Get Out: School Forces Pregnancy Tests on Girls, Kicks out Students Who Refuse or are Pregnant

:shock:
Wow, this is terrible. It's a blatant violation of Title IX and it's gender discrimination, pure and simple. And it's made worse by the fact that this is a PUBLIC charter school in Louisiana.

I'm sure it will turn out to be a violation of something, however, as my second child is about to cross the threshold into her teen years, I look back on the experience of our first teen and think, it's all about clear boundaries and consequences. Unacceptable behavior is just that--sex, partying, drugs, alcohol etc must have its consequences.

There are the family rules.

The school rules.

And the state law.

Every teenager should be clear on what they are and what the consequences are. I like the philosophy of this Charter School--if you're not disciplined enough to abstain from sex or at least practice protected sex (as long as you're the legal age of consent) then you really aren't focused on getting your education. The Charter School should be seen as a privilege and not a right--you make a choice to got there. They do receive public funds, so this policy may be problematic.

I'm sure you're right, there are legal issues, but I agree with sentiment of behavior expectations, boundaries, and consequences.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

I've expressed concern about this as a problem myself. As have a number of other people in this thread. And as taxpayers, we have reason to be outraged when our government funds discrimination and violates civil rights laws.



Well they'll have to make a difference within the requirements of civil rights laws, or cease taking government money. They aren't special.
I disagree. They actually are working to make a difference. They are 'special'. And you continue to prove this is nothing more than a charade for you...its a pet...a cause. You have yet to speak word one about the students, their circumstance, and the positive changes the schools are working to achieve. Thats...sad.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

When I read this article at first I was pretty was strongly against this. After reading through the forum I am far less against it and I think it does make some sense.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

A disparate impact on females? Are you implying that women have no choice when it comes to having sex? Even if that were the case, do you think it is wise to base law upon the technological abilities of a prosecutor to determine who the co-conspirators to a crime are before convicting someone caught with a smoking gun in their hands?

Your position would result in no convictions of criminals who had co-conspirators if the co-conspirator can’t be found and convicted. The fact that there was likely a male participant has no relevance to whether the female violated the agreement that she signed with the school.

Leave it to Louisiana to find a way to dumb down their own citizens. Instead of providing classes that teach sex education to prevent unwanted pregnancies, they are taking the opposite approach, make them even dumber. I'm surprised that Republican/conservatives would side with the school, since most conservatives claim to be so conscientious of the Constitution. I guess only when it pertains to their own views, eh? I bet if Bristol Palin had been kicked out of school for being pregnant, they would be singing a different tune.

The policy’s complete disregard for Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, the federal law that prohibits sex discrimination in federally funded education programs and activities, is astonishing. Title IX and its regulations explicitly mandate that schools cannot exclude any student from an education program or activity, “including any class or extracurricular activity, on the basis of such student’s pregnancy, childbirth, false pregnancy, termination of pregnancy or recovery therefrom.”
Besides violating Title IX, the policy is also in violation of the Constitution’s due process right to procreate, and equal protection: it treats female students differently from male students and relies on archaic stereotypes linked to sex and pregnancy.
Approximately 70 percent of teen girls who give birth leave school, due in part to illegal discrimination. Schools should be supporting pregnant and parenting teens that face numerous barriers to completing their education, not illegally excluding them from school. The ACLU’s Women’s Rights Project protects the rights of pregnant and parenting teens through advocacy, education, and litigation, working to combat the push-out of pregnant and parenting teens from school.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

I agree that discrimination is wrong for things that a person cannot control. However, you can control whether or not you get pregnant for the most part.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

I agree that discrimination is wrong for things that a person cannot control. However, you can control whether or not you get pregnant for the most part.

However, what are they discriminating against?

Teenage sex? Apparently not, unless we're assuming only females have sex.

Teenage pregnancy? Apparently not, unless we're assuming females can typically become pregnant independent from a male component

The actual physical state of being pregnant? That's something where it'd be reasonable to say it would only apply to the female, but then the question goes why are you attempting to discriminate against the physical state itself?
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Actually in La. many of the charter schools were also private schools that applied to receive chater status. It has been on the local news a lot over the last few months. If the state has problems with a particular school, don't issue or allow charter status.

As I've explained many times, and shown, charter schools are part of the local public school district, are non-profit, are public schools in every way but for the allowed exemptions. They are allowed certain exemptions, one of which is that they may choose to structure as non-union. This pisses the unions off and thus they are fond of conflating privatised schools with charter schools.

Disallowing pregnant teens is not one of those exemptions, especially in California. As mentioned before, I happen to know the Master teacher who develops most of the charters for the state. He has confirmed there is no such exemption.

They'll be on the hook to the feds and the state on this policy decision.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

However, what are they discriminating against?

Teenage sex? Apparently not, unless we're assuming only females have sex.

Teenage pregnancy? Apparently not, unless we're assuming females can typically become pregnant independent from a male component

The actual physical state of being pregnant? That's something where it'd be reasonable to say it would only apply to the female, but then the question goes why are you attempting to discriminate against the physical state itself?

The article doesn't say they can't come back once they finish the pregnancy. Perhaps they feel like a pregnant child is not able to have the attendance needed to ensure their education needs are met. Preganent students could be a distraction. Other students could be influenced by her and her decisions. I am sure there is more than what I listed. But the bottom line is a student being pregnant could negatively effect her education, and the education and choices of those around her.

Would you have a problem with people not attending the school who were on trial for breaking the law or make other poor life choices that would or could potentially adversely effect their education and those around them? Would you want your teenage son or daughter being influenced by people making these types of decisions if you had the option?
 
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Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

I disagree. They actually are working to make a difference. They are 'special'.

No. "Working to make a difference" does not give public schools a blank check to violate the civil rights of their students. You have quite an unusual theory of how the law works.

And you continue to prove this is nothing more than a charade for you...its a pet...a cause.

Civil rights? I suppose you could call it that. :roll:

You have yet to speak word one about the students, their circumstance, and the positive changes the schools are working to achieve. Thats...sad.

WTF do you want me to say about them? How the hell would I (or you) know if this school is making a positive change on the community? Why is that even relevant? What I do know is that they're violating their students civil rights if they are mandating pregnancy tests and banning pregnant teenagers.
 
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Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

I'm surprised that Republican/conservatives would side with the school, since most conservatives claim to be so conscientious of the Constitution.

Me too. I'm also surprised that some of the posters who claim to be pro-life would advocate a policy that would almost certainly make abortions more likely (who am I kidding, that doesn't surprise me at all). To be fair, many of the Republicans/conservatives here have voiced their opposition to this policy. And the ones that didn't are mostly the usual suspects of discrimination and misogyny.
 
Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

The article doesn't say they can't come back once they finish the pregnancy. Perhaps they feel like a pregnant child is not able to have the attendance needed to ensure their education needs are met.

It's not the school's responsibility to prejudge a student's attendance record. If the student is unable to attend class on a regular basis, then that's a different matter and arrangements can be made just like any other medical condition. But the school cannot FORCE a student into an alternate program on the basis of pregnancy.

Preganent students could be a distraction. Other students could be influenced by her and her decisions.

Like I said earlier, I don't know where you went to high school, but in my school pregnant girls were hardly admired. Some students felt sorry for them, and others were cruel to them.

I am sure there is more than what I listed. But the bottom line is a student being pregnant could negatively effect her education, and the education and choices of those around her.

Being kicked out of school could negatively affect her education. And in any case, it's a violation of Title IX.

Would you have a problem with people not attending the school who were on trial for breaking the law or make other poor life choices that would or could potentially adversely effect their education and those around them? Would you want your teenage son or daughter being influenced by people making these types of decisions if you had the option?

If they haven't been convicted of anything and they don't pose an imminent threat to anyone else and they didn't violate any legally-valid school rules? Then they should be able to attend too. In any case, pregnancy is specifically protected from discrimination under federal law.
 
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Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

The article doesn't say they can't come back once they finish the pregnancy.

Hadn't suggested it did. Not sure how that relates...

Perhaps they feel like a pregnant child is not able to have the attendance needed to ensure their education needs are met.

Can a pregnant child not get on a bus or a parents car and ride to school? If this was the actual worry, why would it not be that there is an OPTION to undertake classes at home instead of at school rather than it being mandatory? Or even perhaps have it be something that occurs IF attendance issues begin to show, not simply assuming they will.

Preganent students could be a distraction. Other students could be influenced by her and her decisions. I am sure there is more than what I listed.

So the basis for disallowing an individual to continue to attend in-class room education is because it is automatically assumed they will be a distraction if pregnant...even at points where it would not be known to anyone else if not for a pregnancy test?

Do they refuse to allow any kid that tells jokes from attending in-class room education because class clowsn are a distraction and we can just assume if one tells jokes that they'll likely fool around during class? What other "distractoins" have this similar reaction from the school PRIOR to the actual distraction occuring? If there's no such things, it's not really a legitimate argument.

But the bottom line is a student being pregnant could negatively effect her education, and the education and choices of those around her.

*COULD*. Know what else *COULD*? Not allowing her to participate in actual in-class education. And there are many things that could potentially negative effect the education of those around them...are there other such legal things that an individual is punished for prior to actually causing negative effects at the school? If not, then again...this doesn't seem like it can be the reasoning or if it is, it's still standing out as potential wrongful discrimination due to the extremely unequal application of the standard.

Would you have a problem with people not attending the school who were on trial for breaking the law or make other poor life choices that would or could potentially adversely effect their education and those around them? Would you want your teenage son or daughter being influenced by people making these types of decisions if you had the option?
You'd need to present me an analogy where there's similar discrimination occuring in terms of unequal application of the law to a protected class under the EPC for me to be able to ansewr you.

Now, if say...they had a rule that BOYS involved in breaking the law could not attend school because of hte potential adverse effect on education it has, but girls who broke the law could...then yeah, I'd definitely have an issue.

But just in a general sense, if getting public funding, unless the violation was actually on school grounds or during school hours, the simple fact that the kid is possibly going to have to go on trial for a crime isn't something I think they should probably get suspended for. But I can't speak to the constitutionality of that becaues it's not nearly as clear cut as an incident in this case where the application of the standard clearly singles out a particular race/sex/religion/etc.

As to your emotional plea at the end about my "teenage son or daughter", sorry...that's irrelevant to me. We're not talking about if it's understandable that someone wants this rule, we're talking about if it's legal. I reject it when the right plays the Lovejoy "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" card and I reject it when the Left plays the "WE SHOULD DO IT BECUASE ITS 'GOOD'" argument. We have a system of government of laws and attempting to contort, ignore, or add to the laws based singularly on a notion of what's "good" or what we'd personally want for our own desires is unwise and has largely contributed to the troubles this country has current imho.

I have no issue in theory with a policy that attempts to create further tangable, immediete, consequences for something like sex or pregnancy as a teenager due to the limited ability kids and teens tend to have to be able to truly look at and grasp the severity of the long term effects of those things and thus SHORT term consequences could potentially be beneficial. At the same time however, such things need to be lawful and constitutional because if they are not...even if they may be a good idea in and of themselves...it establishes legal precedence for incidents that you may not like so much.

This is a school taking public funding putting forward a rule in which whatever motivation they have for it, it would appear to be an unequal application of that principle, and one in which an unquestionably disproportionate portion of a protected class (in this case gender) appears to be singled out for action. That's problematic under the law and to the precedence it sets constitutionally.
 
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Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

I'm also surprised that some of the posters who claim to be pro-life would advocate a policy that would almost certainly make abortions more likely (who am I kidding, that doesn't surprise me at all).

That's because for some reason lately since coming back more regularly you've given up being an objective thinker. It's pretty simple to understand that one and not be surprised by it....shocker, not everyone thinks on every issue from the exact same mindset as you. Many such individuals in this case likely believe that the net result would actually be less teenage pregnancies due to further immediete reprucussions to such a thing being a deterrent from taking the action that leads to pregnanc rather than believing that the same amount of girls are still going to get pregnant but instead they'll just abort. You may disagree with their thought process there, but don't play stupid in thinking that your view point of it is the same view point they're coming from it as and then applying your "surprised" view of their stance based on that dishonest foundation.
 
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