• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

Matt Foley said:
Denounce what? I'm just here to say, "I told you so." I love saying that, my 4 favorite words.
Click to expand...

You are certainly doing a great job supporting the liberals' argument.
 
VanceMack said:
As you cant wait to drag dead bodies around to launch partisan attacks, Im sure you WOULD say that. Its kinda...well...sad actually
Click to expand...

At least I take notice of the dead bodies. Which is more than we can say for you. You accused me of being worse than a neo nazi white supremacist who murdered six people in cold blood. I think we all understand you perfectly.
 
Last edited:
lizzie said:
Here ya go. This might come in handy, since you use yours with such regularity.

View attachment 67132202
Click to expand...

Unlike you, who ignores racism whenever it appears. I use it when its appropriate. Like with neo-nazi white supremacists. You know, the kind of folks you guys like to ignore.
 
Zyphlin said:
Yep. The fact there was still debate was a bit ridiculous. I have the same statement at the start of these things as I have had in every one...from Republicans yelling "MUSLIM" during the Fort Hood shooting up to the cries of "Tea Partier" with the Colorado shooting...we should let some actual facts come out rather than attempting to ignorantly jump to whatever conclusion fits our little preconceived politically expedient heads. While sometimes the outcome does match whatever one ignorant group tried to declare from the start, often times it's not the case. However, once the facts began to actually roll out here it was pretty obvious the guy was a White Supremacist and likely a neo-nazi.
Click to expand...

Really? Don't jump to any conclusions now. Personally, I think the picture in front of the swastika is a pretty good indication, but I can understand you waiting for more proof. After all, he might be part of ACORN or some other leftist organization well known for killing minorities.:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Matt Foley said:
Denounce what? I'm just here to say, "I told you so." I love saying that, my 4 favorite words.
Click to expand...

How are things on planet dingbat these days?
 
BAN ALL GUNS!!! ( said the Lib for the 1001 time......LOL)

A little history for you all.

"It should have been a routine night at the temporary prisoner of war camp that had been set up at the end of Main Street in Salina, Utah. Two months following Germany's formal surrender on May 7, 1945, the 250 German prisoners of war who were still housed at the camp were waiting to be repatriated back to their homes. Due to the limited space available, the prisoners were kept in 43 tents scattered across the camp grounds with guards posted on towers to watch them. On July 8, 1945, Private Clarence Bertucci climbed one of the guard towers and relieved the guard there to begin his midnight shift. Bertucci then took this regulation .30-caliber machine gun, threaded in the belt of cartridges, and took aim at the tents where the prisoners were sleeping. He methodically fired 250 rounds and managed to hit thirty tents in his fifteen-second rampage. By the time a corporal managed to disarm Bertucci, six prisoners were dead and an additional twenty-two were wounded (three would later die of their injuries)."


We have nutters. We just have to live with it.
 
Last edited:
Gimmesometruth said:
No, you are being INCONSISTENT, one one hand you say "cons should condemn the ideas", next it is "ideas are NOT the problem":
Click to expand...

You seem to have a problem with misrepresenting the posts of others. The beliefs that I am referring are his EXTREMISM, NOT his ideology.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I wasn't making an absolutist argument about the results of an ideology on an individual, my argument AGAIN is that the ideology IS a problem when it leads a person to kill. This is not some vague, fuzzy possible scenario, this is real. A racist skin head used his ideology, an ideology espousing the elimination of any and all "sub-humans". Your argument sometimes is that this ideology should be condemned.....and then again "ideology is not a problem". You are attempting to divorce the individual from the values he used, his ideology.
It doesn't fly.
Click to expand...

Of course it does. It's like Islam or Christianity. Neither religion causes violence. What causes violence is how an individual interprets the words of those religions. Same for anything.

No, your goalposts moved from one side of the street to the other.
Click to expand...

Not at all.

You avoided my points, YOU have values you use, you act upon, that guide you. Yours are positive (assumption), you would say that they enhance your life and those around you. On the other hand, if your ideas are destructive, if your values cause harm, then the ideas are VERY bad. We condemn YOU and YOUR values, we don't separate and say..."Well, his ideas about killing people of other races is not the problem".

Of course they ARE.
Click to expand...

No, I addressed your points. You don't agree with them. You have made no compelling argument that demonstrates that any of your points are more valid that what I have said. You have been unable to show that two individuals, believing in the same ideology could NOT act differently. When you can, THEN you might have a point.
 
solletica said:
Yes. But you're still in denial when you claim that the GOP shouldn't be lumped in with white supremacists like the shooter.

The truth is that people like Palin, Bachmann, etc. help create an environment that fuels the kind of hatred that leads to shootings like this by spreading a Cinderella-like story to their followers that paints the world as being divided into easily identifiable good and bad sides. In this (childish) world view, the good people are White Christians, and the bad people are Muslims, Asians, immigrants etc. who are morally inferior to the White Christians and who are attempting to destroy/invade America, a country that (they claim) belongs to the White Christians.

These pols do this because they know their followers are idiots who already hold similar prejudices, and know that they can easily exploit their ethnocentrism to win elections. Why talk about issues when you can play the race/culture card? That's the GOP tactic, and it always works to win elections. . .

. . .at the expense of

6.jpg
Click to expand...

You're another one who is so black/white that you don't know the difference between an extremist and mainstream ideology.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Of course it does. It's like Islam or Christianity. Neither religion causes violence. What causes violence is how an individual interprets the words of those religions. Same for anything.
Click to expand...

Lol, neither religion causes violence unless god himself is telling them to cause violence. Which he seems to regularly do. Both in the books and modern life. ;)
 
Hatuey said:
Lol, neither religion causes violence unless god himself is telling them to cause violence. Which he seems to regularly do. Both in the books and modern life. ;)
Click to expand...

And since not everyone who reads those words interprets them that way, we know that it's not religion that causes violence.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
And since not everyone who reads those words interprets them that way, we know that it's not religion that causes violence.
Click to expand...

Ah, so when god tells people to kill in the bible/torah/quran, he's not really telling people to kill, he's telling them to carry out another action which just so happens to be phonetically related to "killing". You're playing that game where you avoid the fact that religion through its books, the actions of its deities and even "interpretations" etc has in fact caused people to kill. Whether it be through the delusion of grandeur that comes with divine commandment or or the foundational teachings (which you seem to ignore in your apologetics) is irrelevant.

It's odd that you avoid examining the teachings of these religions. You know, where "god" himself is speaking to people and telling them what to do. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because if you did you'd have no choice but to admit that religion is by its own actions, books and teachings - and not your semantics games - inherently violent.
 
Last edited:
digsbe said:
I can't stand it, neither side will let a "good tragedy" go to wast. It's always prefaced with "my thoughts and prayers are for the victims and families, but...." as if pretending to be "outraged" or "sympathetic" towards the victims makes it ok to politicize something and try to use something horrible for political gain.
Click to expand...


I agree with ya...I just dont know how you can hate anyone that bad that you dont know...Ive seen it so many times...but I still cant get my head around it.....I read this guy played in a hate band....what is a hate band?
 
Hatuey said:
Ah, so when god tells people to kill in the bible/torah/quran, he's not really telling people to kill, he's telling them to carry out another action which just so happens to be phonetically related to "killing". You're playing that game where you avoid the fact that religion through its books, the actions of its deities and even "interpretations" etc has in fact caused people to kill. Whether it be through the delusion of grandeur that comes with divine commandment or or the foundational teachings (which you seem to ignore in your apologetics) is irrelevant.

It's odd that you avoid examining the teachings of these religions. You know, where "god" himself is speaking to people and telling them what to do. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because if you did you'd have no choice but to admit that religion is by its own actions, books and teachings - and not your semantics games - inherently violent.
Click to expand...

You're just playing the "religion is bad" card, nothing else. There are many interpretations of what the bible says. I'm pretty religious and I don't think that God has commanded me to kill... nor do anyone else I know who's religious. I, and most people I know are biblical literalists. Nor are the vast majority of folks. If you want to look at things in a black and white literal sense, that's on you, but since you are not religious at all, your opinion on how folks who ARE religious interpret the bible really doesn't matter.
 
Last edited:
Rosie1 said:
OMG, another month, another crazed shooter! And this time he picks a temple of peaceful Sikhs. Wanted to shoot people with turbins... He may have been mad because the army kicked him out before he could get to Afghanistan. The heat wave is really bringing them out this summer. When will it end?
Click to expand...

It will not end. It will continue and we will see these sorts of things periodically in America.

It is part of the price we pay for having well over 100 million guns and their easy availability. That is not a statement against guns, gun owners or the Second Amendment. It is a simple observation of the reality we live with.

It will not end.
 
wbcoleman said:
Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin
By COLLEEN CURRY
Aug. 5, 2012

Shooting at Oak Creek Sikh Temple Outside of Milwaukee, in Oak Creek, Wisconsin - ABC News

abc_oak_creek_shooting_jef_120805_wg.jpg


A mass shooting has occurred at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisc., just outside Milwaukee.

At least four people have been reported injured in the mass shooting and no suspect has been identified. Hospitals in the area were told to be ready for up to 20 shooting victims, according to police radio reports.

Some members of the temple are still inside the temple and are hiding, believing that a gunman may still be inside the building, according to ABC News affiliate WISN.

According to local reports, a gunman walked into the church and opened fire around 10:34 a.m., shortly before a prayer service was scheduled to begin.

Among those shot was the president of the temple, accoding to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
Click to expand...

So when people freak out and ask "omg why do you need that gun, why would you carry a gun to church of all places"....well folks, this is why.
 
Wiggen said:
At least I take notice of the dead bodies. Which is more than we can say for you. You accused me of being worse than a neo nazi white supremacist who murdered six people in cold blood. I think we all understand you perfectly.
Click to expand...
And you are. The shooter is a scumbag. You swoop in to gleefully use what he did to launch inane political attacks. Yes...indeed...worse.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
You're just playing the "religion is bad" card, nothing else. There are many interpretations of what the bible says. I'm pretty religious and I don't think that God has commanded me to kill... nor do anyone else I know who's religious. I, and most people I know are biblical literalists. Nor are the vast majority of folks. If you want to look at things in a black and white literal sense, that's on you, but since you are not religious at all, your opinion on how folks who ARE religious interpret the bible really doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Oh, save the hurt little bird act for somebody who doesn't know you. Who has argued about what god has asked you to do? What he asks of you is pretty much irrelevant to this discussion because it can't be confirmed one way or another. What I'm saying that god, whether you admit it or not, has asked the important people of your religion to kill on more than one occasion. Once you agree with that you by definition must accept that, at the very least, your deity and by extension your religion, are both violent.
 
Hatuey said:
Ah, so when god tells people to kill in the bible/torah/quran, he's not really telling people to kill, he's telling them to carry out another action which just so happens to be phonetically related to "killing". You're playing that game where you avoid the fact that religion through its books, the actions of its deities and even "interpretations" etc has in fact caused people to kill. Whether it be through the delusion of grandeur that comes with divine commandment or or the foundational teachings (which you seem to ignore in your apologetics) is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I thought you were an atheist? You're sounding like god actually does tell these people to kill. Do you really believe that? Or isn't it true that people wanted to kill and "god talking to them" is a convenient excuse? If this were the case, it isn't religion that's violent, it's the nutjob who is violent.
 
Jerry said:
So when people freak out and ask "omg why do you need that gun, why would you carry a gun to church of all places"....well folks, this is why.
Click to expand...

This is as dumb of a response as claiming more gun laws are needed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom