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Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

Could be wrong, but I have the impression that the Sikh community feels very well-accepted in the United States.

They are a good people but their turbans have meant they have been attacked in the UK and US by some who thought they were muslims. Apparently however there have been problems for over a year in the Oak Creek area for the Sikh community.

Satwant Singh Kaleka, president of the Sikh Temple, requested the meeting after the July 4 melee in Milwaukee's Riverwest neighborhood, according to a news release from Zepnick's office. Those incidents included the looting of at least one Sikh-owned business.
Singh Kaleka told local officials that what was seen in Riverwest has become too common at gas stations and convenience stores owned by members of the Sikh community. Many businesses and workers have been the victims of robberies and vandalism, he said. Oak Creek Patch, August 2011

This event today "may" be related to incidents over the last 12-18 months.
 
Yes but sometimes, things that are perceived or accused of being "racist" aren't actually racist.

Goldwater not supporting the Civil Rights Act, was considered racist by many, but his stated reasoning for not supporting it, were clearly not racist.
Was his position racist or wasn't it?

That's an interesting question. If somebody supports a racist position for non-racist reasons, are they acting in a racist way? I would say yes. Racism isn't just an evil intention, it is acts that oppress racial groups. Some people commit those acts because they're just evil people who like hurting others, but far more common are situations where people commit them because they haven't been introspective enough, they haven't thought things through far enough, they didn't bother putting themselves in the other guys' shoes, etc. That's the core issue we need to fix as a society. Moreso than the intentional overt racism. People have a moral obligation to consider how things affect others and to continually try to improve themselves. Not doing so does not excuse the person who commits a racist act.

Besides, we can't read people's minds and IMO we shouldn't even be trying. Better to evaluate based on external manifestations, not speculation about what people are thinking.
 
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Not today.

And when they talk about the many attacks they suffered because they were mistaken for Muslims--breaks your heart for both them and Muslims. So much ignorance still in our society.

Both cultures have so much to offer us and teach us--America is made a better place by Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists.

What about Christians? ;)
 
Then explain how they supported many of the same policies?
You are begging the question now, I am not sure on a percent basis how much their ideologies had in common. This is getting into "judging a book" territory.
Just because they were racist, doesn't mean they weren't left in nature.
Who said they WERE?

What made them right wing?
Their IDEOLOGY, they held to many socially conservative principles, and some very racist ones too.
 
The idea that you can be bigoted against a political ideology is silly. Sure, in the broadest possible dictionary definition of "bigotry", maybe that could be true.

wow, just wow. See how the brainwashing progresses.
 
Not today.

And when they talk about the many attacks they suffered because they were mistaken for Muslims--breaks your heart for both them and Muslims. So much ignorance still in our society.

Both cultures have so much to offer us and teach us--America is made a better place by Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists.

All hate crimes are saddening. Crazy that jews are targets at something like 10x the rate of these groups. Heartbreaking.
 
It was a stance held by racists, he used it to try and gather Southern votes. I'm not sure how racist he was then, but I do know many of his views became much more liberal as he aged.

Just because racists hold a view, doesn't mean all people who hold a similar view, are racist.
That's stuff for absolution.

Buckley was a racist, he believed early on in the superiority of whites and it was reflected in his writings, which were the basis of the modern US RW ideology...but even he came to regret those views that he held.

I don't doubt for one second, that conservatives have harbored racists.
I'm just saying that racism is not inherently right wing.
 
My heart goes out to the victims, my spite goes out to the perp, my admiration goes out to the police officers who acted quickly. My vomit goes out to those whose very first posts were to politicize this.
 
One thing we learned from the theater shooting in Colorado that it will be a couple days for we have enough information to make any opinion.

I will go out on a limb here and predict the killer was a cowardly underachiever.

Another underachieving neuroscientist student?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Personal attacks, baiting and overall uncivil discourse needs to stop.
 
wow, just wow. See how the brainwashing progresses.

What's up? Bigotry, just like 2 years ago, meant, the same thing to everybody- hatred of a demographic group. Lately the right has been on this kick to try to make it mean everything from preferring oranges to apples to having an opinion on anything. They're trying to take the bite out of the concept by lumping a ton of innocent things in with it.

It's the same thing they've been doing with the word "racism". They've started pretending that racism actually means two things- racism and OPPOSING RACISM... Cause hey, if it means both those things, then nobody's hands are clean, right?

I can't believe people fall for that tactic, but apparently they do...
 
Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee

You are begging the question now, I am not sure on a percent basis how much their ideologies had in common. This is getting into "judging a book" territory.

But you're already judging.
You said that they weren't left wing, but now you're saying you don't want to judge?

Who said they WERE?

Need some clarity on this.

Their IDEOLOGY, they held to many socially conservative principles, and some very racist ones too.

Their ideology also had left wing principles.
So which is it?

Do groups that have some socially conservative principles, automatically become full fledged social conservatives?
Why doesn't this work in reverse?
 
America will be torn apart by the presence of Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists.

That's in complete contrast to the evidence of prior American history and the acceptance of hard working immigrants.

Are you just trying to be controversial?

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That's in complete contrast to the evidence of prior American history and the acceptance of hard working immigrants.

Are you just trying to be controversial or do you need help?

prior Americans were white Christians, and there was lots of open land to settle in. A and B are no longer true.
 
Just because racists hold a view, doesn't mean all people who hold a similar view, are racist.
That's stuff for absolution.
Semantic gaming again, if that view is racist, then those who also hold that view, are racist.



I don't doubt for one second, that conservatives have harbored racists.
I'm just saying that racism is not inherently right wing.
Again, more semantic gaming, what I said was that US RWA, who are conservative, tend towards racist views/ideology.
 
Semantic gaming again, if that view is racist, then those who also hold that view, are racist.

So you go with the "guilt by association" theme.
Racism is defined by a set of beliefs and intentions.

Someone merely accusing another of being racist, doesn't automatically make them or their actions racist.
Intent is what decides it.

Again, more semantic gaming, what I said was that US RWA, who are conservative, tend towards racist views/ideology.

Context is important, you're weaseling out of addressing what I say, by constantly yelling "semantics, semantics!!"
 
First thing in the morning.... and this news. One only wonders when and where the next mass murder will take place. :(
 
Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee

But you're already judging.
You said that they weren't left wing, but now you're saying you don't want to judge?
You are twisting again, what I said is don't try to infer that a dem is a liberal. Southern Dems were not liberals.



Need some clarity on this.
Agreed, so back and fix it.



Their ideology also had left wing principles.
So which is it?
Again, you are begging the question....show that Southern Dems held to "left wing principles".

Do groups that have some socially conservative principles, automatically become full fledged social conservatives?
Why doesn't this work in reverse?
Wow, you are getting into so vague, general phraseology and avoiding specifics.....kinda pointless.
 
So you go with the "guilt by association" theme.
No, if two people hold to racist ideas, they are both racists. Quit twisting.
Racism is defined by a set of beliefs and intentions.
Yup, that is what I said.

Someone merely accusing another of being racist, doesn't automatically make them or their actions racist.
I never said otherwise.
Intent is what decides it.
Hmmm...



Context is important, you're weaseling out of addressing what I say, by constantly yelling "semantics, semantics!!"
Oh, I am very interested in context AND being precise.
 
Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee

You are twisting again, what I said is don't try to infer that a dem is a liberal. Southern Dems were not liberals.

Why were they not liberals?

Again, you are begging the question....show that Southern Dems held to "left wing principles".

The fact that both Southern and Northern Democrats were broadly supportive of the New Deal.
A coalition that stayed together, up and until the Civil Rights issue.

Wow, you are getting into so vague, general phraseology and avoiding specifics.....kinda pointless.

You made a broad and vague accusation.
What else am I to do?

You're just trying really hard to avoid my questions by deflection.
 
Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin
By COLLEEN CURRY
Aug. 5, 2012

Shooting at Oak Creek Sikh Temple Outside of Milwaukee, in Oak Creek, Wisconsin - ABC News

abc_oak_creek_shooting_jef_120805_wg.jpg


A mass shooting has occurred at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisc., just outside Milwaukee.

At least four people have been reported injured in the mass shooting and no suspect has been identified. Hospitals in the area were told to be ready for up to 20 shooting victims, according to police radio reports.

Some members of the temple are still inside the temple and are hiding, believing that a gunman may still be inside the building, according to ABC News affiliate WISN.

According to local reports, a gunman walked into the church and opened fire around 10:34 a.m., shortly before a prayer service was scheduled to begin.

Among those shot was the president of the temple, accoding to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

Kinda routine thingy.
 
No, if two people hold to racist ideas, they are both racists. Quit twisting.

Yes, as far as ideas go.
But no as far as actions.

Goldwater not supporting the Civil Rights act, is a prime example.
Some accuse him of being racist, while he had different reasons for not supporting it.

Who is right?

Yup, that is what I said.

Yes but perceptively racist actions, aren't always racist.
 
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