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Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

Harry Guerrilla said:
Umm no it's not.
Now you're just making things up.
Social conservatism is dependent on who runs each group and on what values the group wants to preserve.

Nice try though, trying to shoe horn Nazism into social conservatism.
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Um, no, a liberal "preserving" liberal values does not become a social conservative.
 
teamosil said:
Hmm, so you see social conservatism as being about preserving the past. I don't think that explains, for example, why Social conservatives seem psyched about Romney saying that Jews are culturally superior to Palestinians. In the US, since the US used to be more demographically homogeneous than it is now, preserving things the way they were before overlaps somewhat with the whole demographic superiority thing, but where they don't overlap, social conservatives seem to still come down on the pro-bigotry side of issues, so the time thing can't be the real explanation.
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That in and of itself does not prove anything you've said thus far.
You're just cherry picking situations that support your argument, rather than looking at the whole.

Are ethno/racial centric marxist groups characteristic of the general left wing attitude towards people?

teamosil said:
Er, what? You don't agree that Nazism was socially conservative? Are you kidding me? That is the absolute most extreme textbook case of social conservatism... Some people argue that Nazis were not really right wing extremists because their economic policies were kind of middle of the road, but I've never in my life heard somebody argue that they were not right wing in terms of their social policies... I mean, if that isn't right wing social policy, what the heck would be?
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That's only true, if you view the policies of the Nazi's with an incredibly limited lens, in order to disparage people you don't like.

You're continuously try to poison the well with, racism is automatically right wing.
 
Aberration said:
The KKK was founded by Democrats.
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I don't want to derail the thread, we should be thinking about the families.

But the Democratic party was on the right side of the political spectrum during that period.

You are aware the parties have switched polarities over the course of our history?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
That in and of itself does not prove anything you've said thus far.
You're just cherry picking situations that support your argument, rather than looking at the whole.

Are ethno/racial centric marxist groups characteristic of the general left wing attitude towards people?



That's only true, if you view the policies of the Nazi's with an incredibly limited lens, in order to disparage people you don't like.

You're continuously try to poison the well with, racism is automatically right wing.
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Look, the sooner we admit that leftists are more moral, more sincere, more well-meaning than the rest of us, the better off we'll be. Just think, we'll be able to avoid all these nasty arguments.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
No, not in the vocabulary defining what a social conservative is as it applies to US politics. You are just getting into semantic nonsense.
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Semantics is important.
Because some people here are trying to disparage an entire group of people based on a flawed belief that, racism is automatically right wing.

It seems that politicizing a murder is morally acceptable to some people. :shrug:
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
That in and of itself does not prove anything you've said thus far.
You're just cherry picking situations that support your argument, rather than looking at the whole.

Are ethno/racial centric marxist groups characteristic of the general left wing attitude towards people?

That's only true, if you view the policies of the Nazi's with an incredibly limited lens, in order to disparage people you don't like.

You're continuously try to poison the well with, racism is automatically right wing.
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Let me try to explain it a different way. Maybe I left off some preamble that makes it sound worse than it is.

Any political ideology can turn ugly if taken too far. For example, I am a strong believer in the goal of equality that the left places a high priority on. But that doesn't mean that I would support taking it to an extreme. I don't want government like controlling everything and ensuring that nobody ever succeeds more than anybody else. That extreme is negative even though the goal of moving somewhat towards equality is positive.

Same deal with everything, including social conservatism.

An argument can be made, for example, that a certain amount of national pride or preserving the traditions of a particular demographic group or whatever is a positive thing. I generally think it isn't, but an argument can certainly be made. But that doesn't mean that it is impossible to take that too far. You keep heading off in that direction to the horizon and you reach genocide. That doesn't mean that people who want to have the ten commandments on the courthouse wall would also support genocide.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Semantics is important.
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Semantic nonsense is not.
Because some people here are trying to disparage an entire group of people based on a flawed belief that, racism is automatically right wing.
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As I already pointed out RW Authoritarianism DOES trend towards racist behavior/ideas, you might be trying to apply absolutes to diminish an argument.

It seems that politicizing a murder is morally acceptable to some people. :shrug:
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Shrug.
 
teamosil said:
I don't even get what you guys are saying... You don't think beating up or killing people because they are from a different demographic background than you is right wing? What do you think social conservatism is about? Killing somebody for being from a different demographic background than you are is the most extreme form of social conservatism. Maybe level one is wanting to favor your own demographic group in various ways (eg, pushing for government funding for religious organizations from your religion, seeking to have creationism taught in public schools, etc), level two is to try to get government to give clear indications that it considers your group superior to others (eg, English as a national language bills, banning cultural studies courses, etc), level three is seeking to oppress members of other demographic groups (eg, forbidding gay people from getting married, fighting not to allow mosques to be built, etc), level four is physical violence against other demographic groups, level fix is killing members of other demographic groups for being different than you. You see what I'm saying, right? I mean, certainly one can argue that the top couple levels are extreme enough to no longer be called "social conservatism", but it is all the same thing, just more and more extreme amounts of it, right?
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Thank you for revealing that you are just as much of a bigot against anyone to the right of you politically as Archie Bunker was bigoted against minorities.... and just as irrationally, unthinkingly, stupidly and illogically.

Hate is an equal-ideology killer, and is not exclusively owned by left, right, up or down.
 
teamosil said:
Let me try to explain it a different way. Maybe I left off some preamble that makes it sound worse than it is.

Any political ideology can turn ugly if taken too far. For example, I am a strong believer in the goal of equality that the left places a high priority on. But that doesn't mean that I would support taking it to an extreme. I don't want government like controlling everything and ensuring that nobody ever succeeds more than anybody else. That extreme is negative even though the goal of moving somewhat towards equality is positive.

Same deal with everything, including social conservatism.

An argument can be made, for example, that a certain amount of national pride or preserving the traditions of a particular demographic group or whatever is a positive thing. I generally think it isn't, but an argument can certainly be made. But that doesn't mean that it is impossible to take that too far. You keep heading off in that direction to the horizon and you reach genocide. That doesn't mean that people who want to have the ten commandments on the courthouse wall would also support genocide.
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So what side of the political spectrum is a group that espouses modern left wing beliefs like, bringing up the common man through social programs and the like, but also believes in ethno/racial centrism?
 
Goshin said:
Thank you for revealing that you are just as much of a bigot against anyone to the right of you politically as Archie Bunker was bigoted against minorities.... and just as irrationally, unthinkingly, stupidly and illogically.

Hate is an equal-ideology killer, and is not exclusively owned by left, right, up or down.
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The idea that you can be bigoted against a political ideology is silly. Sure, in the broadest possible dictionary definition of "bigotry", maybe that could be true. But not in any meaningful or important sense. Real bigotry is about demographic groups, not political ideologies. You can hate political ideologies. It doesn't even make sense not to, since some of them directly contradict one another in fundamental ways....

This whole thing lately where the right is trying to confuse the concept of bigotry to include everything under the sun is just a lame attempt to divert attention from real bigotry. Nobody is falling for it.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
So what side of the political spectrum is a group that espouses modern left wing beliefs like, bringing up the common man through social programs and the like, but also believes in ethno/racial centrism?
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It sounds like you're describing a group that is economically liberal, but socially conservative.

Those are pretty rare, but they happen. You find the opposite more often- economically conservative, but socially liberal. Libertarians, for example (at least in their purest form) fall in that bucket. And you find socially and economically liberal or socially and economically conservative together more often than either split.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
Semantic nonsense is not.
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It's not nonsense.
I mean progressives were pretty darn racist, not to long ago.

Gimmesometruth said:
As I already pointed out RW Authoritarianism DOES trend towards racist behavior/ideas, you might be trying to apply absolutes to diminish an argument.
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Like the progressives, Jacksonian democrats right?
Pretty left wing, in many, many areas but pretty darn racist in others.
 
teamosil said:
It sounds like you're describing a group that is economically liberal, but socially conservative.

Those are pretty rare, but they happen. You find the opposite more often- economically conservative, but socially liberal. Libertarians, for example (at least in their purest form) fall in that bucket. And you find socially and economically liberal or socially and economically conservative together more often than either split.
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Social conservatism, is not automatically ethno/racial centrism.
Keep on poisoning the well with ignorance.
 
Goshin said:
Hate is an equal-ideology killer, and is not exclusively owned by left, right, up or down.
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Exactly. You could have gays beating up straight people just as easily as you could have straight people beating up gays.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Social conservatism, is not automatically ethno/racial centrism.
Keep on poisoning the well with ignorance.
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Eh, ok. I'll accept that... Although in practice they seem to overlap almost 100% of the time. BUT ethno/racial centrism IS automatically social conservatism. Deal?
 
teamosil said:
The idea that you can be bigoted against a political ideology is silly. Sure, in the broadest possible dictionary definition of "bigotry", maybe that could be true. But not in any meaningful or important sense. Real bigotry is about demographic groups, not political ideologies. You can hate political ideologies. It doesn't even make sense not to, since some of them directly contradict one another in fundamental ways....

This whole thing lately where the right is trying to confuse the concept of bigotry to include everything under the sun is just a lame attempt to divert attention from real bigotry. Nobody is falling for it.
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Nice deflection, but it won't wash. You're a bigot against anyone to the right of you politically, because your bigotry is irrational and based on subjective feelings, assumption, fallacies and wrong information. Your attitude about "the right" is much like the attitude of a bigot that hates black people but has never bothered to get to know a black person "because he knows all he needs to know about them already". :roll:
 
Goshin said:
Nice deflection, but it won't wash. You're a bigot against anyone to the right of you politically, because your bigotry is irrational and based on subjective feelings, assumption, fallacies and wrong information. Your attitude about "the right" is much like the attitude of a bigot that hates black people but has never bothered to get to know a black person "because he knows all he needs to know about them already". :roll:
Click to expand...

The idea that you can be bigoted against a political ideology is silly. Sure, in the broadest possible dictionary definition of "bigotry", maybe that could be true. But not in any meaningful or important sense. Real bigotry is about demographic groups, not political ideologies. You can hate political ideologies. It doesn't even make sense not to, since some of them directly contradict one another in fundamental ways....

This whole thing lately where the right is trying to confuse the concept of bigotry to include everything under the sun is just a lame attempt to divert attention from real bigotry. Nobody is falling for it.
 
wbcoleman said:
But liberals do it ALL THE TIME.
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No...they do not.

Any more than conservatines do.

YOU!....and thiose alin to you, make things difficult for those who actually care.
 
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