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Chicken Lips Are Scarce: Great Gay Kiss-Off Lays a Gigantic Egg

Kal'Stang said:
The difference being that hetero's are allowed to marry someone that they would naturally be with due to their heterosexual dispensation. Homosexuals are not allowed to. That makes it uneven.
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My point exactly.
 
I wouldn't normally turn down the opportunity to make out with a beautiful woman, but I feel slightly gross doing so in a place frequented by children. Don't get me wrong, it isn't the lesbianism-in-front-of-kids thing that eeks me, it's the idea of PDA in front of children that eeks me. Holding hands, a peck on the cheek, a hug? Sure. But making out, especially on a large scale, at a restaurant with a damned PlayPit?? Seems tacky and disrespectful to me.
 
Kal'Stang said:
It wasn't mentioned for the simple fact that it wasn't noteworthy? The people that wrote the bible were more concerned with property and things that shouldn't be done than anything else. In the old testament there were more things about what NOT to do and things regarding property than there was of anything else.
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That is very inaccurate. The Bible is not a book of things you can't do. That is the very reason many people view being a Christian as something that is impossible for them to do and something they have no desire to do. Many view it as a bunch of restrictions when in fact being a Christian is very liberating. For every verse you quote about things not to do and property, I can quote two that are about God's love, love between a husband and wife, and Jesus' love for us.
Kal'Stang said:
Now knowing this the better question to ask would be "If God had such a problem with SSM then why doesn't the Bible specifically talk about it in order to forbid it?"
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Why didn't they talk about internet porn? Why didn't they talk about mass shootings in movie theaters? Why isn't pedophilia directly forbidden? Because they are things that are spinoffs of other sins. If we refrain from the original sin, these sins don't occur.

God doens't have to forbid it because the initial sin of homosexuality is not permitted. So, why talk about the spin off sins of it as well.
 
tessaesque said:
I wouldn't normally turn down the opportunity to make out with a beautiful woman, but I feel slightly gross doing so in a place frequented by children. Don't get me wrong, it isn't the lesbianism-in-front-of-kids thing that eeks me, it's the idea of PDA in front of children that eeks me. Holding hands, a peck on the cheek, a hug? Sure. But making out, especially on a large scale, at a restaurant with a damned PlayPit?? Seems tacky and disrespectful to me.
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I agree. Whether a person is a heterosexual or homosexual, that kind of behavior is inappropriate in front of children.
 
MarineTpartier said:
That is very inaccurate. The Bible is not a book of things you can't do. That is the very reason many people view being a Christian as something that is impossible for them to do and something they have no desire to do. Many view it as a bunch of restrictions when in fact being a Christian is very liberating. For every verse you quote about things not to do and property, I can quote two that are about God's love, love between a husband and wife, and Jesus' love for us.
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I did say "most" of it. I recognize that there were parts that were about love and such. Forgive thy neighbor etc etc. But generally that is in the minority compared to the rest of the bible. Also, remember we are talking about the Old Testament. The New Testament is based off it but is a slightly different version. A bit more love in it and a bit less hate...though I don't think by that much.

MarineTpartier said:
Why didn't they talk about internet porn? Why didn't they talk about mass shootings in movie theaters? Why isn't pedophilia directly forbidden? Because they are things that are spinoffs of other sins. If we refrain from the original sin, these sins don't occur.

God doens't have to forbid it because the initial sin of homosexuality is not permitted. So, why talk about the spin off sins of it as well.
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Ah, the original sin iirc was when Eve bit into the apple despite Gods commandment not to. So the original sin is what exactly? Greed? Pride? What? I've never actually heard exactly what it was.

As for homosexuality not being permitted...There's what? One verse in the bible that directly talks about man laying with man? And the only reason that was put in there was because of a war iirc...not because God commanded it.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I did say "most" of it. I recognize that there were parts that were about love and such. Forgive thy neighbor etc etc. But generally that is in the minority compared to the rest of the bible. Also, remember we are talking about the Old Testament. The New Testament is based off it but is a slightly different version. A bit more love in it and a bit less hate...though I don't think by that much.
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In my time on this website, I have learned to recognize when someone I am debating hasn't fully educated themselves of the subject matter they are disputing. I believe this is one of those times. I don't say that to imply you are beneath me somehow just because you don't know the Bible. I am simply stating facts.
Kal'Stang said:
Ah, the original sin iirc was when Eve bit into the apple despite Gods commandment not to. So the original sin is what exactly? Greed? Pride? What? I've never actually heard exactly what it was.
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Again, you miss the point. The point is that every sin cannot, and should not, be enumerated. Do we really need God to tell us that pedophilia is wrong to know that it's wrong?
Kal'Stang said:
As for homosexuality not being permitted...There's what? One verse in the bible that directly talks about man laying with man? And the only reason that was put in there was because of a war iirc...not because God commanded it.
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As I said before, it isn't only the actual statement that homosexuality is wrong (and its said in the OT and NT a couple of times apiece), but also that homosexuality in never mentioned when speaking of a marriage or in any relationship of the romantic kind. Yes, there is romance in the Bible. A whole book of it actually.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Again, you miss the point. The point is that every sin cannot, and should not, be enumerated. Do we really need God to tell us that pedophilia is wrong to know that it's wrong?
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The only reason the "original sin" was a sin at all was because Adam and Eve had been forbidden to eat the fruit.

So, they did need god to tell them, and the sin was one of disobedience.

Some Christians believe that the forbidden fruit was an apple, yet they have no problem eating apples today, as they are no longer forbidden.

Some say that homosexuality is forbidden, too, yet god made homosexuals as well as heterosexuals. Why would god forbid anyone to be what he made them to be?
 
Dittohead not! said:
The only reason the "original sin" was a sin at all was because Adam and Eve had been forbidden to eat the fruit.
So, they did need god to tell them, and the sin was one of disobedience.
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God didn't tell them it was a sin. Sin didn't exist until Eve gave in to temptation. At that time, it was simply another tree. God had told them not to eat from it. They did. Therefore, it turned into a sin. Man created sin, not God. Its the equivalent of saying Congress invents the crime. No, they create the law. When citizens break the law, it then becomes a crime.
Dittohead not! said:
Some Christians believe that the forbidden fruit was an apple, yet they have no problem eating apples today, as they are no longer forbidden.
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This is ridiculous and you know it. You are a better debater than this. One, it never states in the Bible anywhere what kind of fruit it is. Two, it didn't matter what KIND of fruit it was. The purpose of the fruit is what mattered.
Dittohead not! said:
Some say that homosexuality is forbidden, too, yet god made homosexuals as well as heterosexuals. Why would god forbid anyone to be what he made them to be?
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This point isn't worth debating because we disagree on the premise. I believe homosexuality is something that can be resisted. Whether people are born that way or not, I don't know and no one else does either. No study can show if homosexuals are born that way, if social/parental methods influenced it, or if its a combination of both. Any homosexual can say "I've been this way since I can remember." Well, what about before you can remember?
Honestly, I don't care if someone is gay or not. And why gays care so much that we (Christians) consider homosexuality a sin is beyond me. The funniest to me is when an atheist takes offense. If God doesn't exist, why should an atheist care what God thinks? He doesn't exist to them right? I do understand when homosexuals protest the gov't intervening in marriage, which it should not do. The gov't should have no involvement in marriage other than a legal contract in case of child custody/property disputes. But what difference does it make if a person says, for instance, they don't believe in gay marriage? Are they legislating it? No they aren't. They hold an opinion. Just like the homosexual does. So what's the issue? Citizens aren't allowed to have an opinion anymore? Especially with the Chick-Fil-A guy. He publicly said he employs homosexuals and serves them. So, if he isn't ACTUALLY discriminating, what's the issue?
 
Dittohead not! said:
The only reason the "original sin" was a sin at all was because Adam and Eve had been forbidden to eat the fruit.

So, they did need god to tell them, and the sin was one of disobedience.

Some Christians believe that the forbidden fruit was an apple, yet they have no problem eating apples today, as they are no longer forbidden.

Some say that homosexuality is forbidden, too, yet god made homosexuals as well as heterosexuals. Why would god forbid anyone to be what he made them to be?
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Most thinking people understand that the 'original sin' was not eating an apple but rather choosing to disobey the word of God and placing mans judgment over Gods.
 
VanceMack said:
Most thinking people understand that the 'original sin' was not eating an apple but rather choosing to disobey the word of God and placing mans judgment over Gods.
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That's the same thing I said, isn't it?

Now, has god forbidden homosexuality or not? If not, then why would anyone have a problem with it?
 
MarineTpartier said:
God didn't tell them it was a sin. Sin didn't exist until Eve gave in to temptation. At that time, it was simply another tree. God had told them not to eat from it. They did. Therefore, it turned into a sin. Man created sin, not God. Its the equivalent of saying Congress invents the crime. No, they create the law. When citizens break the law, it then becomes a crime.

This is ridiculous and you know it. You are a better debater than this. One, it never states in the Bible anywhere what kind of fruit it is. Two, it didn't matter what KIND of fruit it was. The purpose of the fruit is what mattered.

This point isn't worth debating because we disagree on the premise. I believe homosexuality is something that can be resisted. Whether people are born that way or not, I don't know and no one else does either. No study can show if homosexuals are born that way, if social/parental methods influenced it, or if its a combination of both. Any homosexual can say "I've been this way since I can remember." Well, what about before you can remember?
Honestly, I don't care if someone is gay or not. And why gays care so much that we (Christians) consider homosexuality a sin is beyond me. The funniest to me is when an atheist takes offense. If God doesn't exist, why should an atheist care what God thinks? He doesn't exist to them right? I do understand when homosexuals protest the gov't intervening in marriage, which it should not do. The gov't should have no involvement in marriage other than a legal contract in case of child custody/property disputes. But what difference does it make if a person says, for instance, they don't believe in gay marriage? Are they legislating it? No they aren't. They hold an opinion. Just like the homosexual does. So what's the issue? Citizens aren't allowed to have an opinion anymore? Especially with the Chick-Fil-A guy. He publicly said he employs homosexuals and serves them. So, if he isn't ACTUALLY discriminating, what's the issue?
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No doubt homosexuality can be resisted. So can heterosexuality. There are a few, after all, who choose a life of celibacy.

The question is whether a person's sexuality should be resisted. I say no, we need to be what god made us to be and not try to deny our sexuality.
 
Dittohead not! said:
No doubt homosexuality can be resisted. So can heterosexuality. There are a few, after all, who choose a life of celibacy.

The question is whether a person's sexuality should be resisted. I say no, we need to be what god made us to be and not try to deny our sexuality.
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That is a good point about celibacy. Christians should deny sin, no matter the type. If a person doesn't believe in God, doesn't believe they need Him, they can go ahead and do what they want. God gives us that choice. Not everyone is a Christian. We believe they will answer for it. I've tried to find a way to provide a parallel to resisting homosexuality with other human behavior. Admittedly, I have failed and usually end up offending a homosexual. But, I'll try again. In my mind, homosexuality, whether born with it or not, can and should be resisted because it is a sin. Just like another person may be born with an addictive personality. Its something they must resist. Now, if someone commits one homosexual act in their life, they are no more or less guilty that the person who drinks too much or overeats. And just because a person accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, doesn't mean they cease to be a homosexual. Quite the contrary. Satan will tempt that person more. However, with God's love and power, that person can overcome that just like the addictive person can overcome their drinking habit or eating habit. James 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the Devil and he will flee from you. That doesn't mean that you resist once and its over, if you read the context of that verse. It just means that if you submit yourself to God's will, if you allow Him control in your life, He will shield you when you turn that control over to Him. If you try to resist temptation on your own, you will fail everytime.
 
Dittohead not! said:
That's the same thing I said, isn't it?

Now, has god forbidden homosexuality or not? If not, then why would anyone have a problem with it?
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Thou shalt not is a pretty definitive statement. There is probably a reason why it was given. It wasn't given "thou shalt not...stand on one foot, tap your head, and rub your belly". That would be frivolous. So...when it comes to determining the right vs wrong, the willingness to heed or not, well...that's a personal choice and we have to assume it was given for a reason. Do you so easily discount all those other "thou shalt not"s or just the ones that are convenient?
 
MarineTpartier said:
In my time on this website, I have learned to recognize when someone I am debating hasn't fully educated themselves of the subject matter they are disputing. I believe this is one of those times. I don't say that to imply you are beneath me somehow just because you don't know the Bible. I am simply stating facts.
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Actually when I was much younger my folks were JW's. For that reason I had to read the bible quite a bit. I almost always came away thinking "Dang...don't want to piss God off!" Yeah, I didn't study it in depth...I was a kid after all. But I've read enough of it that I'm not a complete ignoramous on the subject. I'm also quite versed in history as that is one of my hobbies. Between the two I'm pretty sure that I've got a firm grasp of the Bible.

MarineTpartier said:
Again, you miss the point. The point is that every sin cannot, and should not, be enumerated. Do we really need God to tell us that pedophilia is wrong to know that it's wrong?
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This sounds like a good excuse to make up imagined "wrongs" to me. So how do you actually know whether something is wrong or not? Whats to stop your pastor or equivilent from saying that kids should never jump off a swing because it is sinful? I mean its not in the bible yet you seem quite willing to believe that something is a sin whether its in the bible or not so....

MarineTpartier said:
As I said before, it isn't only the actual statement that homosexuality is wrong (and its said in the OT and NT a couple of times apiece), but also that homosexuality in never mentioned when speaking of a marriage or in any relationship of the romantic kind. Yes, there is romance in the Bible. A whole book of it actually.
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Romance? In the bible? Where?
 
Dittohead not! said:
The only reason the "original sin" was a sin at all was because Adam and Eve had been forbidden to eat the fruit.

So, they did need god to tell them, and the sin was one of disobedience.

Some Christians believe that the forbidden fruit was an apple, yet they have no problem eating apples today, as they are no longer forbidden.

Some say that homosexuality is forbidden, too, yet god made homosexuals as well as heterosexuals. Why would god forbid anyone to be what he made them to be?
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I agree, but if you are going to not eat Chick-fil-A anymore, are you going to not buy gasoline either? After all, in the countries where oil comes from, being gay is punishable by death. :mrgreen:
 
Kal'Stang said:
Actually when I was much younger my folks were JW's. For that reason I had to read the bible quite a bit. I almost always came away thinking "Dang...don't want to piss God off!" Yeah, I didn't study it in depth...I was a kid after all. But I've read enough of it that I'm not a complete ignoramous on the subject. I'm also quite versed in history as that is one of my hobbies. Between the two I'm pretty sure that I've got a firm grasp of the Bible.
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If you say you know it, then you do. I won't call you a liar.
Kal'Stang said:
This sounds like a good excuse to make up imagined "wrongs" to me. So how do you actually know whether something is wrong or not? Whats to stop your pastor or equivilent from saying that kids should never jump off a swing because it is sinful? I mean its not in the bible yet you seem quite willing to believe that something is a sin whether its in the bible or not so....
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I won't dispute that some people make up imagined wrongs. IMO, being a Christian isn't about following a rule book though. Sure, there are things you shouldn't do that are laid out plainly in the Bible. But there are also personal convictions. I'll give you an example. The Bible never says we shouldn't drink alcohol. It just says we shouldn't get drunk. However, I don't buy alcohol because I don't want to be associated with the possibility of being drunk. So, therefore, I feel alcohol is wrong FOR ME. Now, if a pastor wants to say something is wrong, then he needs to back it up with scripture. Reason being, he is now telling others something is wrong in his interpertation of the Bible. If he can back up his belief with scripture, then I'll believe it. If he can't, I'll get up and walk out. BTW, one of the reasons we can delineate that pedophilia is wrong is because sex outside of marriage is wrong. That's just one of a few ways we can say pedophilia is wrong even though the Bible never says it actually is.
Kal'Stang said:
Romance? In the bible? Where?
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Song of Solomon man. Come on. You should read it. If a person is married, they can get some good lines from it. Its right after Psalms, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes.
 
danarhea said:
I agree, but if you are going to not eat Chick-fil-A anymore, are you going to not buy gasoline either? After all, in the countries where oil comes from, being gay is punishable by death. :mrgreen:
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I'm no fan of the oil companies, but if the CEO of Chevron ever says the invisible man is the sky is irked by America's tolerance, I'm going to Shell.
 
VanceMack said:
Thou shalt not is a pretty definitive statement. There is probably a reason why it was given. It wasn't given "thou shalt not...stand on one foot, tap your head, and rub your belly". That would be frivolous. So...when it comes to determining the right vs wrong, the willingness to heed or not, well...that's a personal choice and we have to assume it was given for a reason. Do you so easily discount all those other "thou shalt not"s or just the ones that are convenient?
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Where and when did Christ say, "Thou shalt not engage in homosexual behavior?"
 
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