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Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

muciti said:
A quick google search pulled up

American Household Credit Card Debt Statistics through 2012

March 31, 2010 March 31, 2012*
Total revolving debt $842.6 billion $803.6 billion
Number of U.S. households 116,716,292 118,666,137
Average credit card debt per household $7,219 $6,772
% of households with a credit card balance 43.2% 46.7%
Average credit card debt per indebted household $16,383 $14,517

That shows improvement from 2010 to 2012
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Unemployed people lose their access to credit.
 
Blue_State said:
Employment-population ratio
58.2 58.6 58.6 58.4 -0.2

Not supportive...next.
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Yes it is. Next. I have clearly stated since 2010 it has improved. Your link shows a change of 0.2 from June 2012 to July 2012. For whatever reason you choose to ignore all of 2010 but from 2011 to 2012 we had +0.2
 
cpwill said:
worth noting is also that labor-force participation decreased. Had it not, U3 would currently stand at 8.4%. If you assume a labor force participation that Obama had when he took office, unemployment is currently at 11%, thought to be fair, when you account for the natural aging of the workforce (and the retiring that brings on), the number drops to 10.6%
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I wonder when the BLS will add the million illegal immigrants that Obama added to the legal workforce. My guess sometime after the election. Shocked the press has not asked about this.
 
clownboy said:
Unemployed people lose their access to credit.
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He clearly stated "A number not included above is that the public debt per household is increasing at a rate of about $13,000. per year under Obama" I showed numbers stating that in the last 2 years average household debt has decreased a bit and asked him to support his statement.

Your statement doesnt seem to include anything of substance.
 
muciti said:
A quick google search pulled up

American Household Credit Card Debt Statistics through 2012

March 31, 2010 March 31, 2012*
Total revolving debt $842.6 billion $803.6 billion
Number of U.S. households 116,716,292 118,666,137
Average credit card debt per household $7,219 $6,772
% of households with a credit card balance 43.2% 46.7%
Average credit card debt per indebted household $16,383 $14,517

That shows improvement from 2010 to 2012
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I said "public debt". That would be the National Debt. :roll:
 
muciti said:
He clearly stated "A number not included above is that the public debt per household is increasing at a rate of about $13,000. per year under Obama" I showed numbers stating that in the last 2 years average household debt has decreased a bit and asked him to support his statement.

Your statement doesnt seem to include anything of substance.
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To note again, the word is "public" ;)

That would be the debt increase of over $4 trillion since Obama took office. I thought we were talking things getting better, or worse, with Obama ?

I then bolstered it with an example using Stimulus spending, and that at some point in the cost of creating a job, we have to say "thanks, but at that price, no thanks".
 
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muciti said:
He clearly stated "A number not included above is that the public debt per household is increasing at a rate of about $13,000. per year under Obama" I showed numbers stating that in the last 2 years average household debt has decreased a bit and asked him to support his statement.

Your statement doesnt seem to include anything of substance.
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Public debt per household is not the same as household credit card debt.
 
muciti said:
government to my knowledge does not publish the % of adult working full time.
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Yes it does.

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t08.htm

Just use your calculator and there is your %.


That's your entire evidence that Gallup's overall numbers are more accurate then the BLS's?

Gallup contacts less people (I believe), does not include 16-17 year olds and is NOT seasonally adjusted...how could it be more accurate?



Btw - are you an Obama supporter?
 
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Debt.

See, I thought the conversation was about unemployment.

I could get a banning for mentioning this.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Debt.

See, I thought the conversation was about unemployment.

I could get a banning for mentioning this.
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I believe that it was a liberal poster who brought in all these stats to illustrate how we are "improving". Government spending which has artificially supported some of this "improvement" is very much fair game. Or is that "not fair" ;)
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Sure it is, since govt spending continues to decline, especially at the local level....in response to less revenue.....due to declines in housing......which has caused consumers to pull back. Obama did not cause this, and the solutions are not coming from the GOP, in fact they are stopping what would work. We know what will break this vicious cycle, BIG jobs programs, mortgage/debt relief and programs to get corporations to stop sitting on all the cash they are hoarding.
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You are living in a bizarro world of propaganda. Who filled your brain with such nonsense. Your only answer for anything is Government. It's bizarre.

Do you have any idea how naive and nonsensical you sound? How does Government generate revenue. I don't want anymore of your "It's not Obama's fault, the Government is not spending enough of other people's money" fantasy land talking points. You just don't understand basic economics. That's the only logical conclusion to spectacle you are making of yourself all over these boards trying to spray perfume on a steaming pile of economic data.

The money Obama is spending right now is an enormous opportunity cost and negative externality on the private economy. We won't ever really know the innovations and business growth that could have been possible, had that wealth not been confiscated by a radical leftist ideologue for redistribution. Demand driven economies which are fueled by borrowed and spent money have been exposed as massive wealth redistribution schemes. They don't work. They don't create wealth. They don't create jobs. They don't create economic growth. That's all Obama's economic policy is. Punish success and give it to someone else. The Social Justice politics of a Community Organizer.

Your guys solution is to lower marginal rates on business, believing that will spur investment. But investment goes towards growth products, and nothing is growing which is why business, which has PLENTY of cash already (read: investment dollars) is not already investing. This is NOT a supply side problem.....we are still in a demand side stall. Tax cuts are just pushing on a string, it is not the solution to this problem.
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Us guys? Look pal I'm a United States citizen and I'm concerned about the future of my country. This isn't a game to me. Unemployment is going up. Massive trillions in debt. Massive tax hikes and the poor and middle class. Mandates that violate the Constitution. Massive Government overreach. Massive expansion of the executive branch as Obama arrogantly ignores the restraints of the Constitution.

Obama promised unemployment RIGHT NOW would be 5.6% if he was allowed to ram his stimulus down our throats. The neo keynesian stimulus that was supposed to be this benevolent Government Program was supposed to put people back to work. It didn't though. Like all centrally planned solutions, it failed miserably.
 
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DA60 said:
Yes it does.

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

Table A-8. Employed persons by class of worker and part-time status

Just use your calculator and there is your %.


That's your entire evidence that Gallup's overall numbers are more accurate then the BLS's?

Gallup contacts less people (I believe), does not include 16-17 year olds and is NOT seasonally adjusted...how could it be more accurate?



Btw - are you an Obama supporter?
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Gallup and those numbers support each other.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
I believe that it was a liberal poster who brought in all these stats to illustrate how we are "improving". Government spending which has artificially supported some of this "improvement" is very much fair game. Or is that "not fair" ;)
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And who was that? I believe it was you who brought up debt. Mr liberal. Futhermore you still have not supported your statement.
 
DA60 said:
Yes it does.

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

Table A-8. Employed persons by class of worker and part-time status

Just use your calculator and there is your %.


That's your entire evidence that Gallup's overall numbers are more accurate then the BLS's?

Gallup contacts less people (I believe), does not include 16-17 year olds and is NOT seasonally adjusted...how could it be more accurate?



Btw - are you an Obama supporter?
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Seriously take some time and review the numbers between now and this time last year.

Btw - are you an Obama supporter?
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i have not decided who i am supporting yet. I do not think obama has done a good job in office and I do not beleive Romney will do a good job.
 
It is funny how since I am looking at the numbers from year to year since 2010 and acknowledging that our economy is improving all the sudden so many of you auto assume I worship obama and i am suddenly a super liberal. You people need help. Apparently you think comprehension of data and not lying and being selective about the info one acknowledges makes a person a super liberal obama worshipper. Does that really make sense to you guys?
 
muciti said:
keep rolling your eyes. i have provided data that refutes your claim, you have provided nothing.
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The definition of what is public debt, and what is not, is not something I care to waste time debating.
 
Bronson said:
You are living in a bizarro world of propaganda. Who filled your brain with such nonsense. Your only answer for anything Government. It's bizarre.

Do you have any idea how naive and nonsensical you sound? How does Government generate revenue. I don't want anymore of your "It's not Obama's fault, the Government is not spending enough of other people's money" fantasy land talking points. You just don't understand basic economics. That's the only logical conclusion to spectacle you are making of yourself all over these boards trying to spray perfume on a steaming pile of economic data.

The money Obama is spending right now is an enormous opportunity cost and negative externality on the private economy. We won't ever really know the innovations and business growth that could have been possible, had that wealth not been confiscated by a radical leftist ideologue for redistribution. Demand driven economies which are fueled by borrowed and spent money have been exposed as massive wealth redistribution schemes. They don't work. They don't create wealth. They don't create jobs. They don't create economic growth. That's all Obama's economic policy is. Punish success and give it to someone else. The Social Justice politics of a Community Organizer.
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Um....aside from your rhetoric and totally ignoring what I posted, the money being borrowed....is not being "confiscated".

So tell me again how superior your macroecon understanding is......after you actually respond to what I posted.



Us guys? Look pal I'm a United States citizen and I'm concerned about the future of my country. This isn't a game to me. Unemployment is going up. Massive trillions in debt. Massive tax hikes and the poor and middle class. Mandates that violate the Constitution. Massive Government overreach. Massive expansion of the executive branch as Obama arrogantly ignores the restraints of the Constitution.

Obama promised unemployment RIGHT NOW would be 5.6% if he was allowed to ram his stimulus down our throats. The neo keynesian stimulus that was supposed to be this benevolent Government Program was supposed to put people back to work. It didn't though. Like all centrally planned solutions, it failed miserably.
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Well, you are not even going to touch on what the con/libertarian solution might be, and instead revert back to responding, sort of, to the first half of my post. The ARRA did save a whole lot of jobs......but that was a part of what it did, it was mostly tax relief to low/middle income earners and that also did have a multiplier effect, well documented. If anyone said they had a real idea just how bad things were going in Jan 09, where we would end up, they didn't. $237B in grants for a $14T economy was not going to do that, most knew it had no chance of turning the ship around, creating 2 to 4 million jobs helped, but it was not enough.

So again, you avoid talking about what would work to mainly focus on rhetoric...seems like that is what you prefer. Thats cool, it is just ironic complaining about my lack of reality based discussion while you are doing it.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
GDP is a measure of spending, spending has been reduced because people have cut back...we have cut back because of debt and lower incomes....lowered demand is reflected in lower GDP. GDP also measures govt spending....you want lower govt spending...you get lowered GDP.

This is not that tough to understand.
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Oh I understand what the GDP means, people have cut back because of no jobs, less money to go around. Obama raising the national debt by almost 6 trillion is over the top government spending. And I might add with that bloated spending you would think we would have got at least a penny's worth. Not 1.5% growth. But liberals want to continue to borrow and spend even more to bump up the GDP. That's the only way they know how to improve the economy is to flood the country with borrowed dollars. Problem is, it got us nothing in return except 6 trillion more added to the national debt.
 
Born Free said:
Oh I understand what the GDP means people have cut back because of no jobs, less money to go around. Obama raising the national debt by almost 6 trillion is over the top government spending. And I might add with that bloated spending you would think we would have got at least a penny's worth. Not 1.5% growth. But liberals want to continue to borrow and spend even more to bump up the GDP. That's the only way they know how to improve the economy is to flood the country with borrowed dollars. Problem is, it got us nothing in return except 6 trillion more added to the national debt.
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Spending at the fed level has grown at the lowest rate since Eisenhower, it is the lack of revenue that had caused the increase in debt. So if you want more revenue, you still have to tax and find a way to increase GDP. You don't increase GDP by laying off people, and you want to pay down debt when revenue and GDP are up. We have seen increases in debt during recessions, again, Reagan spent like crazy to get the economy going, so did W. You guys don't mind that....apparently when the tax dollars are spent on weapons that either rot or get buried in some desert. And you are quick to blame this POTUS for weak economic activity...after a huge crash....that he did not cause.

If I saw some consistency in this ideology, then it might make sense. The only thing that makes sense is a whole lota amnesia and big dose of rw rhetoric.
Wake up, try to remember our history.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
Spending at the fed level has grown at the lowest rate since Eisenhower ............
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That is a BS stat, refuted over and over. If you wanna believe it, its right up there between unicons and rainbows. That particular report got a bunch of WAPO Pinnochio's, it was so flawed.
 
muciti said:
I am not here to discuss how people are going to vote. I am stating that in the last 2-2 1/2 year the numbers and the economy have improved.

As for how I think they will vote, I honestly think they wiill vote Obama because most unemployed and under employed people believe it was bush's fault they are where they are.
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Great tactic, when you get a job and four years into that job continue to blame the previous job holder for your poor performance. Let me know how that works out for you
 
muciti said:
show me something that shows what you claim as truth please. support your statement.
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I do not care to debate a poster's basic ignorance to definitions and terms.
 
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