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Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

Charge a gun and run from a knife has a lot of truth in it. A guy flailing a knife is extremely dangerous.

Hats off to this guy who reacted the way you want someone with a loaded gun to react.

I thought, "Huh! I never heard that before." So I Googled and came up with this:

Rule No. 1: RUN. Get as far away from the individual as possible. The good thing about knives is they have limited reach.

Rule No. 2: If you cannot run, put a stationary object between you and the attacker. Find a car, wall, large piece of furniture….something.

Rule No. 3: If you cannot run and there is nothing to put in between, pick something up and start swinging. Try to even up the odds, find a stick, chair or a blunt object of some kind to make him think twice about getting close.

Rule No. 4: If the previous rules are not applicable, then follow the principles of Clear, Close, Control and Capture. Clear all your vitals from the path of the blade. Close the distance by jamming yourself super tight against them, so the attacker cannot swing or stab with the blade again. Control the arm holding the knife as close to the hand as possible. Capture the weapon by any means necessary. That means biting, clawing , striking , spitting, hitting, smashing; whatever it takes to extract it away from the attacker.

As a good experiment, give a person a marker and tell them they can mark you up as much as possible before you take it away. See what happens. It’s often a real eye opener. Have you considered how you would handle a knife attack without a gun?

Read more: Rules for Knife Attack Defense -- Guns & Ammo

There's a video at this link that shows the result of a knife slash on a piece of beef. Wow. Who'da thought?

I took a "dirty street fighting" class when I was younger. It was good -- and I've never forgotten some of the stuff I learned. But it wasn't about weapons. I thought this was very interesting. And it's almost counter-intuitive. Which is why it's important for people to learn this kind of stuff before they ever need to know about this stuff.
 
Let me interject another anecdote because that's fun:

The other day a guy shot a door to door salesman for being on his property. When the salesman was on the ground, the man shot him in the head. "For effect."

For. Effect.
 
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Let me interject another anecdote because that's fun:

The other day a guy shot a door to door salesman for being on his property. When the salesman was on the ground, the man shot him in the head. "For effect."

For. Effect.


At this point in time, barring some explanation, I have no idea how what you just said (if true, I see no link to source) has anything to do with the topic under discussion. It would appear to simply be an attempt to add an appeal-to-emotion that is supposed to horrify people, but the post lacks any context to link it to what is being discussed.

In other words... WTF dude? :roll:
 
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Deuce!! I don't get it!

7 billion people on the planet. Even assuming 1 percent of people are just plain nuts, that totals to 70 million whack-a-doodles out there. That's almost the entire country of Turkey.
 
I, for one, don't believe a word of the OP article. After all, everyone knows that if a law abiding citizen carries a gun they can't unholster it without shooting themselves or a loved one instead of actually stopping a crime! ;)

I'd rather have a gun pointed at me then be attacked with a knife any day. Knife attacks never look like they do in the movies...
[video]http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4ah_0gia4A0&v=4ah_0gia4A0&gl=US[/video]
 
Speaking of amusing anecdotes, this used to hand on the wall in my veternarian's office...


PS1506.jpg
 
7 billion people on the planet. Even assuming 1 percent of people are just plain nuts, that totals to 70 million whack-a-doodles out there. That's almost the entire country of Turkey.

And those whackadoodles tend to off themselves or others with whatever they can get...
Firearms, bought legally or illegally...
... knives, swords, hammers, rocks, ballbats...
... Sarin nerve gas....

.... Jetliners full of passengers...

... explosives made of fertilizer and diesel fuel....


All of those have happened IRL.... guess which ones had the highest body count by far?

(hint: they didn't involve firearms)
 
And those whackadoodles tend to off themselves or others with whatever they can get...
Firearms, bought legally or illegally...
... knives, swords, hammers, rocks, ballbats...
... Sarin nerve gas....

.... Jetliners full of passengers...

... explosives made of fertilizer and diesel fuel....


All of those have happened IRL.... guess which ones had the highest body count by far?

(hint: they didn't involve firearms)

My point wasn't about controlling/getting rid of guns. Just that crazies exist and we have no way of stopping them.
 
My point wasn't about controlling/getting rid of guns. Just that crazies exist and we have no way of stopping them.


No argument. In a world like we have today, with so many people, there are going to be fruitloops now and then, and preventing their fruit-loopery just isn't likely.




Except, the way the armed citizen in this story did it....
 
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I would disagree somewhat. A knife is a deadly weapon every bit as much as a gun; a knife can kill very readily. When I was in LE we had many training sessions about knives, mainly to teach us to take them very seriously. A man can run 25 feet and stab you in the time it takes to draw a pistol and shoot him. Stab wounds are often fatal.

The man had already cut or stabbed more than one person; he had already committed Attempted Murder. Shooting him is a reasonable response; he is fortunate that the armed citizen who stopped his rampage before it reached "national news body count level" desired not to kill him if it could be avoided. Had he pulled the trigger without warning it would have been a justifiable shoot no question.
Fortunately, most knife assailants don't know what they are doing, and unfortunately. If someone knows the killzones and how to break the wrist, close the hand, and when to "step in" to the thrust or slash they can kill in seconds, the unfortunate part is that the assailant without knowledge tends to hack and slash and it's a slow, gruesome process. The fortunate part is that anyone who knows just a little bit about self defense has a chance against someone without knowledge of knife techniques.
 
Fortunately, most knife assailants don't know what they are doing, and unfortunately. If someone knows the killzones and how to break the wrist, close the hand, and when to "step in" to the thrust or slash they can kill in seconds, the unfortunate part is that the assailant without knowledge tends to hack and slash and it's a slow, gruesome process. The fortunate part is that anyone who knows just a little bit about self defense has a chance against someone without knowledge of knife techniques.


True enough, but empty hands against a knife is still a royal bitch.

In LE training we saw hidden-camera films of prison inmates training in knife techniques. Their methods emphasize surprise, gang attacks with one holding and one stabbing, and repeated stabbing attacks.... and they may not be experts on anatomy but they have a pretty decent rough idea of where to stab for best effect.

It is a Bad Thing that some of the scumbags also train their techniques. :(
 
I don't think anyone would have second guessed, depending on how things went down. My statement was based on jamesrage reasoning. We don't get to decide who gets to live or die and that is what he was suggesting.

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All I can say to that is if I'm armed and a knife assailant is causing harm to myself or others he gets one chance to lay down the weapon and surrender, in La. third party defense falls under self defense protection and I can use appropriate force to stop aggression or prevent bodily harm. If that assailant so much as twitches he's getting two shots center mass.
 
True enough, but empty hands against a knife is still a royal bitch.

In LE training we saw hidden-camera films of prison inmates training in knife techniques. Their methods emphasize surprise, gang attacks with one holding and one stabbing, and repeated stabbing attacks.... and they may not be experts on anatomy but they have a pretty decent rough idea of where to stab for best effect.

It is a Bad Thing that some of the scumbags also train their techniques. :(
Totally agree, even under the best training the assailant can still get in a lucky hit, if they stab the leg and get the femoral it's over, or the aorta if they go chest. Someone mentioned at this site as well that even in self defense situations where a knife was used a jury can be swayed to vote against the defense due to the gruesome nature of the scene photos, whereas if someone doesn't get stupid with their shooting it leaves a cleaner "appearing" wound channel.
 
Totally agree, even under the best training the assailant can still get in a lucky hit, if they stab the leg and get the femoral it's over, or the aorta if they go chest. Someone mentioned at this site as well that even in self defense situations where a knife was used a jury can be swayed to vote against the defense due to the gruesome nature of the scene photos, whereas if someone doesn't get stupid with their shooting it leaves a cleaner "appearing" wound channel.

Yup, that and the popular perception of the knife as the weapon of thugs and assassins. Which is BS... a weapon is a weapon, and dead is dead, but there ya have it.
 
Yup, that and the popular perception of the knife as the weapon of thugs and assassins. Which is BS... a weapon is a weapon, and dead is dead, but there ya have it.
If all I had was a beer bottle and was forced to use it I would, I think people are too easily swayed by emotions and misconceptions. Though I can see in a streetfight where things get convoluted, it is afterall a very quick event with devastating outcomes.
 
Fortunately, most knife assailants don't know what they are doing, and unfortunately. If someone knows the killzones and how to break the wrist, close the hand, and when to "step in" to the thrust or slash they can kill in seconds, the unfortunate part is that the assailant without knowledge tends to hack and slash and it's a slow, gruesome process. The fortunate part is that anyone who knows just a little bit about self defense has a chance against someone without knowledge of knife techniques.

If you haven't already, check the video link I posted above. When a knife weilding assailant stabs you 12-13 times in under 7 seconds, he doesn't need to be a master of anatomy. In the face of a knife assault, many people are just overwhelmed by the sheer savagery of it.

Here's another good watch. This instructor knows what he's talking about.

Possible NSFW due to language.
 
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Cars and alcohol don't kill people, either, but we restrict possession and use of them, too. It would be really nice if we could have an intelligent conversation over gun control, rather than reactionary ones where proponents of gun ownership rely on slogans to diffuse the discussion itself. There is no popular movement for mass disarmament, only reasonable restrictions, specifically to prevent violent incidents. The right and ability to protect oneself or one's home are not on the chopping block. Nor is the ability of citizens to keep weapons as a caution against tyranny. The issue is safety, and whether a little bit of regulation could go a long way to keeping us safe from violence. Not a lot of regulation going a little way. That would be unconstitutional. But the discussion must take place. The facts must be evaluated. If it turns out that restricting guns won't make us safer, than we shouldn't restrict them. But we at least have to address the issue in a rational manner, not with outrage.
The only way to see if restricting guns will make us safer is by...restricting guns. And frankly, I'd rather take my chances WITH a gun, than without.



The difference, obviously, is that knives have a purpose beyond violence. Guns do not. They are weapons, with no use other than killing. This is an important distinction that makes evaluating guns different from evaluating other things. Crossbows, for example, have no use other than as weaponry. Baseball bats do. See the difference?
Really? Because it seems to me, the gun in the OP had a purpose...that purpose being, stopping the guy with the knife, without a single shot fired. If what you say is true, the dude with the knife should be dead right now. Is he? No. Then, what you say must not, in fact, be true.

Guns are lethal, yes, but lethality is not their sole purpose. No, one can say their purpose is more the THREAT of lethality. I could just as easily say that the purpose of martial arts is to harm others. It was designed with that specific purpose in mind. To allow one combatant to more easily and more effectively incapacitate another. Should be ban or restrict the teaching or martial arts? No. Heck, that stuff is fine to sign your kids up for. But wait. Despite the purpose of it's design, there have been other useful things it can do. Like keep otherwise inactive people in decent shape, instilling confidence in those that practice it, and, more than anything else, teaching focus and restraint. Guns do the same thing, dude. Someone with a gun is going to be a LOT more confident about getting back to their car, way out on the other end of the unlit parking lot at night, after work. Someone who has learned how to effectively USE a gun, has a lot more respect for the finality to a situation that it offers, and a greater since of responsibility about it's use. There are far, far, far more stories of responsible gun owners than there are of irresponsible gun owners...otherwise, with millions upon millions of gun owners IN the US, we'd all be getting shot at, all the time. And I, for one, have NEVER been shot at. Anyone else care to give a show of hands, if they have NOT been shot at, lol? I'll imagine we GREATLY outnumber those that have. Inexplicably, of course, lol.
 
If you haven't already, check the video link I posted above. When a knife weilding assailant stabs you 12-13 times in under 7 seconds, he doesn't need to be a master of anatomy. In the face of a knife assault, many people are just overwhelmed by the sheer savagery of it.

Here's another good watch. This instructor knows what he's talking about.

Possible NSFW due to language.
I can't get either to play but I get the gist of your point. The thing is that sure you are correct, the person who is flailing with a knife like that is absolutely dangerous, and moreso than someone with a gun due to the nature of the attack, if they don't know what they are doing you can try to get them to tire themselves out before they land a lethal hit or if you feel lucky can try to disarm them. I'd actually rather not have to disarm a knife holder and would rather someone with a gun.
 
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