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Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

Hugh_Akston said:
That's not the case at all. The fans aren't happy with what happened at all and the overwhelming majority care about the boys far more than the football program. But they, like me, have the mindset that you punish those responsible, not punish so many more for the actions of a few. I felt the punishment was a tad harsh, but it is what it is. The sad part is that no matter what the punishment is, it isn't going to change what happened to all those boys over the years. They have emotional scars that no amount of money, vacated wins, statues torn down or scholarships taken away will ever heal.

This was a bad deal all around and the cover up by Paterno and certain members of the administration is despicable. The fans, the community around Penn State and current players who had nothing to do with any of this are having to deal with the NCAA's iron fist ruling. The saying goes something like "You don't throw out the baby with the bath water", well the NCAA might have just done that to a lesser degree than a death penalty. Don't knock the fans for supporting their school.
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Don't knock the fans for supporting their school? Don't knock the fans for supporting their school?? No. No, no, no, no, no. Explain to me why there was such a resistance to taking down the Paterno statue. Explain to me why there is a bigger outcry against the NCAA sanctions than the rape after rape after rape. The insane level of self-pity and self-righteousness of the Penn State fans has caused me to have absolutely zero sympathy for them. None. Anybody who thinks that the sanctions are anywhere near as bad as the sexual abuses and the cover-up is showing incredibly bad judgment.

As a Pacer fan, I've supported my team ever since the brawl. I don't hold anyone responsible for the brawl except for those who took part in it. You don't go after the organization for the actions of a few employees. But what we have here is the NCAA making an example of Penn State, which is pretty ironic as corrupt an organization as the NCAA is. The one statement that I do agree with that came from the NCAA on this is that college football should never take a priority over the educational duty of the university (I'm paraphrasing here). But it does, it has and it will continue to do so. It will because college football is big business and the NCAA has let this happen. Much like the MLB is guilty of letting the steroid era go on and on because of the money and ratings that they so desperately craved, the NCAA has allowed the football program to dictate the direction that universities have taken.
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Again, the "Malice in the Palace," if that's what you're referring to, is absolutely not the same thing. That was one night, one bad night. No kids were molested, and there was certainly no cover-up by anyone to pretend that nothing bad had happened.
 
The Man said:
No, the burden is on the prosecution to prove, in a court of law, that Paterno, Schultz, Curley and Spanier covered up Sandusky's crimes. That's not Louis Freeh's job, and his report doesn't prove anything.

Have you even read the Freeh report? Read the entire thing, not just the snippets that the media gives us in the news.
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Tell me what parts you disagree with and the evidence for such a position. I am not going to play this game.

The NCAA took a huge risk with the sanctions. They risked their own reputation in order to set in forth a series of events that are very likely to save who knows how many other children. I cannot think of many actions that are more courageous than laying one's reputation on the line in the name of protecting our children. Mark Emmert is a hero and deserves to be honored as such.
 
Phys251 said:
Explain to me why there was such a resistance to taking down the Paterno statue.
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Maybe because Paterno was never convicted of any crime and it's never been proven that he covered up Sandusky's crimes?

And for the record, I'm no Paterno fan, never have been (though I am a Penn State fan). I couldn't care less about the Paterno statue.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
The punishment should probably have waited until the dust settled. Who knows, maybe when this is all said and done, the NCAA will realize the punishment wasn't enough.

I'm torn here. I hate the mentality "punish everyone instead of the few," but it's hard not to understand why. The University as a whole may not be guilty, but those in charge are, and if they were the only ones punished, then what would stop the University from hiring morally corrupt individuals again? Nothing. I am not going to argue in favor or against the punishment because, honestly, there isn't a punishment big enough to heal anyone's pain. That's not going to happen until everyone who is personally affected is dead and gone. Maybe not even then.
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The NCAA's biggest enemy in this scandal was the clock. College football begins in just one month. They absolutely could not wait this out over the course of a few months or a year. They had to reach a decision, NOW. And they did exactly that.
 
Phys251 said:
Tell me what parts you disagree with and the evidence for such a position. I am not going to play this game.

The NCAA took a huge risk with the sanctions. They risked their own reputation in order to set in forth a series of events that are very likely to save who knows how many other children. I cannot think of many actions that are more courageous than laying one's reputation on the line in the name of protecting our children. Mark Emmert is a hero and deserves to be honored as such.
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I'm not playing a game.

Have you even read the Freeh report? Read the entire thing, not just the snippets that the media gives us in the news.
 
The Man said:
Maybe because Paterno was never convicted of any crime and it's never been proven that he covered up Sandusky's crimes?

And for the record, I'm no Paterno fan, never have been (though I am a Penn State fan). I couldn't care less about the Paterno statue.
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Dude. Had Paterno survived, it is very likely he would have been indicted by now. And how you can be in denial that he covered up Sandusky's crimes is absolutely beyond me.

It does not concern you one way or the other whether the statue of a child molester's enabler was removed or not? Before you answer that, let's go ahead and put up a memorial honoring the Aurora, Colorado movie killer. Hey, he was a former neurosurgery student, he was a smart guy--we can come up with plenty of good things about him!

The Man said:
I'm not playing a game.

Have you even read the Freeh report? Read the entire thing, not just the snippets that the media gives us in the news.
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Which SPECIFIC parts do you disagree with? Don't give me this innocent-until-proven-guilty catchphrase. I want to know what SPECIFIC allegations in the Freeh report you disagree with.

The Man said:
No, they really did not. Why do you say that they had to reach a decision, NOW?
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Are you serious? I already answered that question in my post.
 
Phys251 said:
Dude. Had Paterno survived, it is very likely he would have been indicted by now. And how you can be in denial that he covered up Sandusky's crimes is absolutely beyond me.

It does not concern you one way or the other whether the statue of a child molester's enabler was removed or not? Before you answer that, let's go ahead and put up a memorial honoring the Aurora, Colorado movie killer. Hey, he was a former neurosurgery student, he was a smart guy--we can come up with plenty of good things about him!



Which SPECIFIC parts do you disagree with? Don't give me this innocent-until-proven-guilty catchphrase. I want to know what SPECIFIC allegations in the Freeh report you disagree with.



Are you serious? I already answered that question in my post.
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I'm not in denial about anything about the alleged cover up by Paterno, Schultz, Curley and Spanier. They most likely absolutely are guilty of a cover up, but it has not been proven yet. Crimes are proven in court. The Freeh report is not proof of anything. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand?

And yes, innocent until proven guilty IS VERY IMPORTANT in serious allegations like this. Hell, it's important in any allegations. It's not a catchphrase, its the truth. I don't understand how you don't think that is important?

Have you even read the Freeh report? Read the entire thing, not just the snippets that the media gives us in the news.
 
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Phys251 said:
Are you serious? I already answered that question in my post.
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Just because the season starts in a few weeks, does not mean that the NCAA had to make a decision on this case now. Are you serious?
 
Phys251 said:
It does not concern you one way or the other whether the statue of a child molester's enabler was removed or not?
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Again, it has not been proven that Paterno enabled Sandusky. If it's proven that he enabled Sandusky, then yes, I say tear it down. What's with you assigning guilt of heinous crimes on people when you have no proof?

BTW, I don't think Paterno should have ever been given a statue in the first place. And since he's not their head coach any longer, it made sense to remove it, IMO.
 
The Man said:
I'm not in denial about anything about the alleged cover up by Paterno, Schultz, Curley and Spanier. They most likely absolutely are guilty of a cover up, but it has not been proven yet. Crimes are proven in court. The Freeh report is not proof of anything. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand?

And yes, innocent until proven guilty IS VERY IMPORTANT in serious allegations like this. Hell, it's important in any allegations. It's not a catchphrase, its the truth. I don't understand how you don't think that is important?

Have you even read the Freeh report? Read the entire thing, not just the snippets that the media gives us in the news.
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I am not going to even discuss the Freeh report any more until you tell me which of its specific allegations you disagree with.

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to the legal system. The NCAA is an intercollegiate athletics organization, not a legal system.

The Man said:
Just because the season starts in a few weeks, does not mean that the NCAA had to make a decision on this case now. Are you serious?
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OK, so let's pretend that in some bizarre universe, the NCAA decided to, as you seem to be advocating, twiddle their thumbs and "wait for all the facts to come in." As in, more than the Sandusky trial (which was used as evidence in the sanctions). As in, more than the Freeh report, which the Penn State president openly acknowledged and accepted. And despite all that, the NCAA deferred action against the Penn State football program. What the hell kind of message would that have sent?

It would have sent the message that harboring pedophiles isn't all that bad. It would have sent the message that past victims don't really deserve vindication, and future victims don't really deserve protection. It would have sent the message that football is more important than ethics, a message that Penn State embodied with every fiber of its being.

I have grown extremely disturbed and aggravated at the marked level of sympathy for an institution that harbored a known pedophile and the marked lack of sympathy for the survivors. This was a life-threatening cancer in the body of Penn State. They HAD to get the cancer out in order to save the body. Losing some healthy cells is a tiny price to pay to treat potentially terminal cancer. Hell, the NCAA did Penn State a favor by weakening the source of its denialism.
 
WE ARE!!! :)

Penn State is going to kick ass this season. They are going to pack Beaver Stadium 108,000 strong, and I'm going to support them, like I always have.

If some people consider that sick, I don't really give a s***.
 
And I could care less if State Penn wins another game. Ever.

Peace out.
 
Phys251 said:
I have grown extremely disturbed and aggravated at the marked level of sympathy for an institution that harbored a known pedophile and the marked lack of sympathy for the survivors. This was a life-threatening cancer in the body of Penn State. They HAD to get the cancer out in order to save the body. Losing some healthy cells is a tiny price to pay to treat potentially terminal cancer. Hell, the NCAA did Penn State a favor by weakening the source of its denialism.
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The fact that in your mind you think that Penn State alumni and fans have no sympathy for the victims of Sandusky's crimes is sick, and quite frankly offensive. Penn State alumni and fans have more sympathy for the victims than anyone else.
 
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Phys251 said:
And I could care less if State Penn wins another game. Ever.

Peace out.
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Bye bye.

Go ahead and read the Freeh report when you get a chance. The entire thing, not just the snippets that the media gives us in the news.
 
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