• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

Another right wing fable. The top 5% have accumulated a $40 Trillion nest egg, you don't think some of that might fix our debt?
A 3% wealth tax with a $3 million exemption would add a trillion a year to pay down the debt and no one would miss it.


And the reason you think the super rich put their wealth into offshore accounts and foreign markets is???

How much do you think war against the entire world to make them all pay their 3% wealth tax would cost? Estimate what you say it would cost to force the super rich of Russia and China to pay your 3% wealth tax.
 
I didn't say it belonged to the government. But for there to be that much topsided gain, the system is being rigged by those with power and influence to favor an ever growing increase for them at the expense of the masses.

And who said that this wealth was obtained "at the expense of the masses"?

This is the common misconception of most leftie class warfare types. You assume that rich people became rich on the backs of the poor. That is simply NOT true. Most rich people became wealthy by investing money. Most wealthy people did not become wealthy at the expense of the poor.

The sheer fact that there is that much money overseas is a testament to how well capitalism DOES work. Under what other economic system could an individual obtain that much wealth? The real question you should be asking, is why do they shield money in offshore accounts? To avoid taxation? You betcha. What does that say? We tax too much in America.

Now, tell me, which side of the political isle objects to "repatriation" of offshore money?? Hmmmm, that would be the left. So, on one hand they whine about money sitting in offshore tax havens, and on the other, refuse to change a political stance that discourages wealthy people from investing here at home. Classic class warfare. They use things like offshore tax havens to conjure up animosity among financial classes here in America. They thrive on the philosophy of greed. Here's why that is true:

It is more "greedy" to demand rich people share their wealth with people who had no hand in creating that wealth, than it is for a wealthy person to simply be wealthy. Ironically, liberals believe that a single mom earning 25k a year is "entitled" to her money, but feel that a person who earns 25 million per year is not entitled to theirs. Interesting......and such a philosophical conflict. How anyone falls for this fallacy is beyond me.....
 
I didn't say I hated them. I said I resented them. At the same time, I sort of defended them. Then, you repeated what I said and took a poke at me to prove?


A curious point. If 32 TRILLION dollars was dumped into buying commodities, inflation would go totally thru the ceiling where most people couldn't afford food.

Not sure why you so hate the mega rich, other than you aren't one yourself.
 
We have some of our savings in offshore accounts.

A safe rule of savings is to diversify it as much as possible - and in life make and leave as many backdoors, bridges and options open as possible.

Finally, for some of business and the wealthy, I don't think many understand the function offshore accounts serve.
 
Last edited:
I didn't say I hated them. I said I resented them. At the same time, I sort of defended them. Then, you repeated what I said and took a poke at me to prove?

"mega-rich scum".... terms of endearment? :)
 
Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens - Yahoo! News

So is this fair capitalism or are the rich just using the system to amass and hoard wealth for the sake of it?

Americans should not be able to shelter income by putting their cash overseas. Move it offshore if you wish, but any and all income generated from it should be taxed at our regular rates, be it capital gains or ordinary income. Period.

The fact that Americans can do this legally? Blame Congress.
 
Wait...this whole time...we are talking about...

"The study estimating the extent of global private financial wealth held in offshore accounts - excluding non-financial assets such as real estate, gold, yachts and racehorses - puts the sum at between $21 and $32 trillion.
The research was carried out for pressure group Tax Justice Network, which campaigns against tax havens, by James Henry, former chief economist at consultants McKinsey & Co.
He used data from the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, United Nations and central banks.
The report also highlights the impact on the balance sheets of 139 developing countries of money held in tax havens by private elites, putting wealth beyond the reach of local tax authorities.
The research estimates that since the 1970s, the richest citizens of these 139 countries had amassed $7.3 to $9.3 trillion of "unrecorded offshore wealth" by 2010"

???

Seriously? We are talking about a 'study' that may or may not represent what people from AROUND THE GLOBE since 1970 may or may not have put in some form of secured off shore accounts??? :doh
 
Americans should not be able to shelter income by putting their cash overseas. Move it offshore if you wish, but any and all income generated from it should be taxed at our regular rates, be it capital gains or ordinary income. Period.

The fact that Americans can do this legally? Blame Congress.

Income earned overseas, by Americans, is already taxed as regular income in the U.S.
 
fair or not fair is largely irrelevant. what is relevant is that this is an excellent illustration of how trickle down is not working efficiently, however.

lol....yes, according to YOUR definition of trickle down, I suppose it wouldn't be working.

What do you think trickle down means? Does it mean that I go out and work my tail off, and simply share my profits with people like you?

Your comment is absurd, you are implying that MY PROFITS are yours by virtue, and that you shouldn't be required to "DO" anything at all, and that I should be "trickling" my money down to people who have had no input into making that money.

Let me set the record straight, the money I EARN, is not yours or anyone else's by virtue. Meaning, that money belongs to me, because I've earned it. You have no rightful claim over MY PROFITS simply because you need them. I do not exist and work for YOUR sake, nor the sake of anyone else. I work to make money, and I pay those who help me acquire money. Those are called "salaries". I pay a "fair wage" for work done. That doesn't mean that the profits belong to anyone else. They belong to me. I earned them. And because I earned them, they allow me to pay the salaries of those who work for me. THAT is trickle down. If it weren't for me, and other business owners who make profits, no one would have a job. That's trickle down.

Trickle down has nothing to do with MY personal wealth. It has everything to do with supplying jobs for people like you. Remember, the company you work for makes a lot more money than you do. But they are providing you with a paying job, which pays for your house, your food, your clothing, your kid's college education, you health insurance, your leisure activities, your vacations......YOUR LIFESTYLE.

Hmmmmm, wanna know what that's called????? TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS!!!!!
 
Well my problem here, is that way to many people equate this wealth, with liquid value.
The two aren't the same.


99.9% of americans would take either or
 
Income earned overseas, by Americans, is already taxed as regular income in the U.S.

And the U.S. appears to be fairly good at collecting taxes relative to most of the other large economies...europe, and way better than China, Russia, etc.? If anything it appears to applaud U.S. ultra-wealthy tax payers for being the most honest?
 
And the U.S. appears to be fairly good at collecting taxes relative to most of the other large economies...europe, and way better than China, Russia, etc.? If anything it appears to applaud U.S. ultra-wealthy tax payers for being the most honest?

Possibly, I've never really looked into it.
 
Someone else pointed this out too. The economy isn't close ended. Just because someone has 25 million in an offshore account, doesn't mean they kept me from earning just as much money too. Money is constantly changing hands. Warren Buffett isn't prohibiting me in any way from making a ton of money.

However, the far left promote the misconception that it's the rich people's fault if "the rich get richer, while the poor get poorer". The poor getting poorer has absolutely NOTHING to do with the rich getting richer. Anyone with half a brain knows this.

The rich are getting richer, it's true. But I'm also making more money. How is that possible? Hmmmmm....because like I said, the rich getting richer has nothing to do with MY success and failure as an individual. By and large Americans understand that they have the opportunity to go out and make a tremendous living in this country. They understand that. The problem is, most people aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to become wealthy. Or they aren't smart enough. Or they aren't willing to work 80 hours a week for 15 years establishing a profitable venture. Or they aren't willing to risk everything for the sake of a long term gain. You think Warren Buffet became rich over night???? You think he relied on others to do his investing for him? You think he waited around for someone to give him a chance? Please....the man worked tirelessly for most of his life, made some huge gambles with his own money, saved tons of money, and learned how to make money go to work for him. Show me an American with that kind of discipline, and I'll show you an American who isn't whining about the state of their finances......
 
Americans should not be able to shelter income by putting their cash overseas. Move it offshore if you wish, but any and all income generated from it should be taxed at our regular rates, be it capital gains or ordinary income. Period.

The fact that Americans can do this legally? Blame Congress.

Why blame congress? If I start and license a "holding" company in someplace like the Cayman Islands (just an example), "sell" all stocks owned to that campany then all my dividends would then go to that company and since it is licensed and registered in a foreign country, the US cannot claim any taxes on it without violating the soveriegnty of that country. Technically, I would not be getting that money, the "holding" comany would, as owner and CEO, I only transfer funds to my self (pay dividends) when I need to. I could even have that holding company furnish me with cars, homes, spending account with credit/debit cards etc, in the comanies name and it would never count as income.

Now say that I owned controlling shares in international coprorations, If I move their registration/licensing to the Cayman Islands, I would then pay my corporate taxes in the Caymans and the US could only tax those profits earned in the US not total corporate profits.

The only way congress could stop such a thing would be to outlaw foreign investment and property ownership in the US, something they will not do. If the congress were to pass a law taxing all assets of US citizens, then simply add a second "holding" company with "owns" the stock and the first one only owns the second one and has what ever value I say it has because I fully control how much assects gets transfered from the second to the first. The second "holding" company and subsequent corporations are not in or subject to US taxes, they are foreign owned. The really great thing about this type of scheme is that if you base it in a really small country and get several company owners to do the same, a very small percentage of Taxes paid to that small country would make it rich beyond their wildest dreams at very low cost to me and I could basically dictate to that governemt what banking access laws it should have (not giving access to US agents) and can keep tax rates where I want them. Short of invading that country, there is not a damned thing the US can do about it.
 
Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens - Yahoo! News

So is this fair capitalism or are the rich just using the system to amass and hoard wealth for the sake of it?


"Its good to be the king" -

good_to_be_king.jpg
 
However, the far left promote the misconception that it's the rich people's fault if "the rich get richer, while the poor get poorer". The poor getting poorer has absolutely NOTHING to do with the rich getting richer. Anyone with half a brain knows this.

The biggest reason for the wealth gaps in this country is that the poor line up by the millions and give their money to the rich. It amazes me how many people are pissed at the rich for this. All they are doing is taking the money that we are giving to them.
 
The biggest reason for the wealth gaps in this country is that the poor line up by the millions and give their money to the rich. It amazes me how many people are pissed at the rich for this. All they are doing is taking the money that we are giving to them.

The biggest reason for wealth gaps in this country is that people blame their circumstances on others, instead of identifying and overcoming their own faults.
 
This is a global number that seems to be a guesstimate. Not sure how much of this number is of U.S. based individuals. If you know the answer to that this thread might have some relevance.

Where does it say that the wealthy have to be based or live in the US to have a profound affect on this country? Many international corporations have home offices in every major city in the world with no particular central location.




The biggest reason for the wealth gaps in this country is that the poor line up by the millions and give their money to the rich. It amazes me how many people are pissed at the rich for this. All they are doing is taking the money that we are giving to them.

Maybe because the rich are the only with enough money to sell anything.
 
Maybe because the rich are the only with enough money to sell anything.

Bullcrap. There are lots of small business in this country that are not run by the super rich that hundreds of millions of middle and lower class americans refuse to shop with. If a company does not underpay and undercover their employees and get their merchandise from slave shops the average american will not support them.
 
What kind of wimps allow the Swiss and the pirate islands to get away with this? What is our military for if we can't use force against these criminal acts? What kind of pathetic wannabe has the fantasy that if he admires the rich for safely stashing their loot, then somehow that's as good as being rich himself?
 
What kind of wimps allow the Swiss and the pirate islands to get away with this? What is our military for if we can't use force against these criminal acts? What kind of pathetic wannabe has the fantasy that if he admires the rich for safely stashing their loot, then somehow that's as good as being rich himself?
1-how do you find it 'criminal' and 2-do you know how many of those individuals that have put money in offshore accounts since the 70s are Arab oil ministers, Russian crime syndicates, or Asian drug lords? You DID read the story, right? I mean...Id HATE to think you were just talking out of your ass. Wait...judging by your comments......
 
I've now seen more than a couple people refer to our economy as being NOT "zero sum". I have the sneaking suspicion that, for the most part, the folks using this term, don't understand fully what that means. As it deff pertains strongly to this discussion, I'll try to elaborate.

When you say that our economy is not zero sum, you are saying that there is no fixed amount of wealth, that wealth can be both created, and destroyed. And, to some extent, this is true. Wealth can CERTAINLY be lost, and it can be created. However, unless you are suggesting that the rules of economics defy and break the laws of physics, then, in the ways that matter most, this concept is dead wrong. Simply put, our economy, from second to second, moment to moment, day to day, month to month, year to year...IS fixed. It is NOT zero sum. There IS a finite amount of wealth. Within a given period of time, there IS only so much that can be produced. To suggest otherwise is to deny common sense. Within one day, a plant can only build so many cars. Even if demand went through the roof, there is no way the plant could build more cars than it's capacity to do so. There are only so many ears of corn you can grow within a set amount of space, in a set amount of time. There is only so much effort and labor you can squeeze into a set amount of time. While the argument to this is true, that due to the nature of relative attributions of value that individuals place on everything, the economy is NOT zero sum (I value my X-men #1 comic at more than I paid for it, but can sell it to someone else for MORE than I value it, thus creating "wealth"), it still does not address the issue (that there are only so many X-men #1 comics out there, and I can't simply make more, and retain their current market value). In the most real sense, someone hoarding 100 billion in liquid capital and assets truly DOES limit what the rest of us can hoard.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom