Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

presluc said:
Thank you, I've been waiting for someone to bring that up.

Seems, like everytime I mention a tighter gun control somebody automaticly brands me as anti gun, or thinks I want to do away with all guns in America .

This is simply not true I can not speak for others who want stricter gun control but for me I say put the guns in the hands of responsible honest people and take them away from nut jobs by making it harder for them to get.eace

well I am all ears-(or eyes I should say) tell me how you plan on doing this without infringing on my rights and the rights of other responsible people

and tell me that your scheme will not be easily avoided by those who want guns going to the black market

AdamT · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
1) no one was armed in that area

Totally unsupported assumption. In fact, at *least* one bystander was armed ... and came close to shooting the old dude who actually disarmed Loughner. Armed bystander's reaction in Ariz. shootings illustrates complexity of gun debate - The Denver Post

In fact, you don't even need a permit for concealed carry in AZ. How'd that help?

2) in a church in colorado a woman with a pistol wounded the active shooter-he then killed himself

Um, she was actually there as security.

3) in another active shooter case at a school, teacher got a pistol and captured the shooter

I think we'll need to see some links from now on....

4) in cincinnati, a killer shot a woman jogging. a guy who had a loaded pistol in his car (a gray area since there was no CCW permit at the time) chased the killer down at gun point and took him prisoner until the cops arrived.

Maybe....

how would a guy with a 100 round magazine been able to get that close to Giffords?

Folding stock and long shirt or coat? As it was he was armed with two 33-round clips.

how was the Aurora shooter able to exit an emergency exit and come back in without alarms being sounded

What possible relevance?

why did he choose a gun free zone

I guess he assumed there would be guns or he wouldn't have been wearing head-to-toe body armor.

Moot · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
well I am all ears-(or eyes I should say) tell me how you plan on doing this without infringing on my rights and the rights of other responsible people

and tell me that your scheme will not be easily avoided by those who want guns going to the black market

What is the difference between the black market and the NRA controling gun legislation? Either way, the guns are getting into the wrong hands.

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

AdamT said:
Totally unsupported assumption. In fact, at *least* one bystander was armed ... and came close to shooting the old dude who actually disarmed Loughner. Armed bystander's reaction in Ariz. shootings illustrates complexity of gun debate - The Denver Post

In fact, you don't even need a permit for concealed carry in AZ. How'd that help?

Um, she was actually there as security.

I think we'll need to see some links from now on....

Maybe....

Folding stock and long shirt or coat? As it was he was armed with two 33-round clips.

What possible relevance?

I guess he assumed there would be guns or he wouldn't have been wearing head-to-toe body armor.

When you start killing people, the police tend to show up.

You have never seen a beta mag have you? only someone ignorant would say you stuff it under a coat. It looks NOTHING LIKE a standard "banana" magazine which generally cannot function with more than about 40 rounds

Let me assume you have never carried an M16 under your coat

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

Moot said:
What is the difference between the black market and the NRA controling gun legislation? Either way, the guns are getting into the wrong hands.

another really stupid post

the congress controls gun legislation the black market is a response to gun legislation

Connery · Jul 22, 2012

LaMidRighter said:
Totally agree. Still, if he reports something like that to the police they don't have enough to obtain a warrant or to set up surveillance. If someone is judged to be actively suspicious as this range owner judged there should be some standard to tell some kind of authorities, "Hey, might want to keep an eye on this one". I mean, we have a flagging system for books and other purchases so why not that really freaky individual that is borderline.

A report could be made to the authorities, however, the standards may be more stringent requiring there must be an overt act where the person be placed under observation for 72 hours as the conduct may be indicative of someone who may want to hurt themselves or others. Moreover, I agree that monitoring for items that could be used to harm others should be in place and utilized.

presluc · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
so if a person has a clean record and no court history of mental incompetence just what is your solution

if you buy more than one handgun within 5 business days from the same dealer the ATF has to be notified.

You seem to be one of those people who cannot fathom a problem without a tidy neat packaged solution

in this case there is none and many of us realize that rather than flying off the handle and screaming that WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING

Uhh you do remember how easy it was to board a plane well that changed
You remember going to a coffee shop and sitting down with a cigarette and a cup of coffee , well that changed
I could go on , but it is a long list though.
Each change came after somebody said WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?

So are you saying change these things but not the buying and selling of guns?

eace

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

presluc said:
Uhh you do remember how easy it was to board a plane well that changed
You remember going to a coffee shop and sitting down with a cigarette and a cup of coffee , well that changed
I could go on , but it is a long list though.
Each change came after somebody said WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?

So are you saying change these things but not the buying and selling of guns?eace

I know gun laws inside and out. I also know what works and what does not. So tell me your solution since you obviously feel a need to change something.

what would I change

1) eliminate gun free zones

2) find out why the emergency exit was such that this nutcase could go out of it-prop it open and come back into it without anyone knowing about it

presluc · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
well I am all ears-(or eyes I should say) tell me how you plan on doing this without infringing on my rights and the rights of other responsible people

and tell me that your scheme will not be easily avoided by those who want guns going to the black market

First of all the current gun control system isn't working, so change it or are all the intellectuals to busy .... uhh thinking?

Second of all buying guns off the black market may not be that easy they are not exactly as trustworthy as the legal gun dealers are.

eace

Risky Thicket · Jul 22, 2012

presluc said:
Uhh you do remember how easy it was to board a plane well that changed
You remember going to a coffee shop and sitting down with a cigarette and a cup of coffee , well that changed
I could go on , but it is a long list though.
Each change came after somebody said WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?

So are you saying change these things but not the buying and selling of guns?eace

For what it's worth I am not a big fan of TSA boarding procedures. I was/am completely against mandatory no smoking laws in restaurants and bars...and I don't smoke.

What changes in the buying and selling of guns would have prevented Holmes from mass murdering people?

Mustachio · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
you make some valid points

the first round of gun control was directed at freed slaves

the second major wave was directed at "Papist" immigrants from places like Ireland and Italy. (the sullivan law was passed to protect the Irish cops in NYC who were shaking down Italian Longshoremen)

fear of black criminals with guns is a major driving force behind suburban housewife support for gun control

I think this is a separate debate that isn't really that important in this matter. Throughout the history of this country, many of our citizens have taken it upon themselves to own guns and take advantage of advanced weapons technology. There will always be the debate of whether or not the advantages of protecting gun ownership outweigh the disadvantages, as your examples illustrate.

I think this is a different debate, because we're talking about a crazy 24 year old who purchased thousands of rounds of ammunition and a semi-automatic assault rifle that has no purpose other than to kill human beings. There are no advantages of allowing anybody who has an internet connection to stockpile assault weapons and ammunition. What would be the problem with restricting the sale of guns like this? When you mentioned the citizens who used guns to prevent or stop violent attacks, did any of them need 6,000 rounds of ammunition and a semi-automatic assault rifle?

Wasn't it earlier that this month the GOP found Holder in contempt of congress because they were disgusted with his oversight of a program that allowed weapons like this to fall into the hands of criminals? Why was it that in that case conservatives acknowledged that the availability of these guns would cause or increase senseless violence and could not be permitted to fall into the wrong hands, but here we are a few weeks later and conservatives have already slipped back into "guns don't kill people, people kill people" mode?

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

presluc said:
First of all the current gun control system isn't working, so change it or are all the intellectuals to busy .... uhh thinking?

Second of all buying guns off the black market may not be that easy they are not exactly as trustworthy as the legal gun dealers are.eace

Americans have bought millions of guns -often in reaction to clinton and Obama. yet the crime rate has gone down despite the fact that most states now allow CCW permits. Sarah Brady and other scum claimed that the CCW licenses would lead to blood in the streets-a silly prediction that now has become a bald faced lie. She and other scum claimed that the sunset of the clinton gun ban would cause tons of deaths-again not true.

so the laws seem to be working. Less accidental shootings and intentional killings even with 20 million or more guns in private hands

I suspect you really don't have a proposed solution-you just FEEL that SOMETHING has to be done

AdamT · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
When you start killing people, the police tend to show up.

You have never seen a beta mag have you? only someone ignorant would say you stuff it under a coat. It looks NOTHING LIKE a standard "banana" magazine which generally cannot function with more than about 40 rounds

View attachment 67131348

Huh, that looks like something your typical sports shooter or self defender would need. :roll:

Let me assume you have never carried an M16 under your coat

Well, I live in Florida so I carry mine in my cargo shorts.

presluc · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I know gun laws inside and out. I also know what works and what does not. So tell me your solution since you obviously feel a need to change something.

what would I change

1) eliminate gun free zones

2) find out why the emergency exit was such that this nutcase could go out of it-prop it open and come back into it without anyone knowing about it

So you know gun control inside and out huh?
So tell me great one how does the nut jobs keep getting guns legal?

So protestors could carry guns then?

Emergency exits don't kill people, people with guns do.

eace

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

Mustachio said:
I think this is a separate debate that isn't really that important in this matter. Throughout the history of this country, many of our citizens have taken it upon themselves to own guns and take advantage of advanced weapons technology. There will always be the debate of whether or not the advantages of protecting gun ownership outweigh the disadvantages, as your examples illustrate.

I think this is a different debate, because we're talking about a crazy 24 year old who purchased thousands of rounds of ammunition and a semi-automatic assault rifle that has no purpose other than to kill human beings. There are no advantages of allowing anybody who has an internet connection to stockpile assault weapons and ammunition. What would be the problem with restricting the sale of guns like this? When you mentioned the citizens who used guns to prevent or stop violent attacks, did any of them need 6,000 rounds of ammunition and a semi-automatic assault rifle?

Wasn't it earlier that this month the GOP found Holder in contempt of congress because they were disgusted with his oversight of a program that allowed weapons like this to fall into the hands of criminals? Why was it that in that case conservatives acknowledged that the availability of these guns would cause or increase senseless violence and could not be permitted to fall into the wrong hands, but here we are a few weeks later and conservatives have already slipped back into "guns don't kill people, people kill people" mode?

I don't bother reading any further when you spew crap like the only purpose for owning a rifle like that is to kill other people

I have at least 6000 rounds of ammo because I buy 22 target ammo in lots of 5000 and 9mm and 556 Ammo in lots of 1000 because I and my family shoot 10-20,000 rounds a year

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

presluc said:
So you know gun control inside and out huh?
So tell me great one how does the nut jobs keep getting guns legal?

So protestors could carry guns then?

Emergency exits don't kill people, people with guns do.eace

you are the one who wants changes yet you cannot say what you want

I think anyone with a brain understands that someone willing to commit capital murder and plots for months about killing people is not going to be deterred by some law that restricts or bans a gun

presluc · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
Americans have bought millions of guns -often in reaction to clinton and Obama. yet the crime rate has gone down despite the fact that most states now allow CCW permits. Sarah Brady and other scum claimed that the CCW licenses would lead to blood in the streets-a silly prediction that now has become a bald faced lie. She and other scum claimed that the sunset of the clinton gun ban would cause tons of deaths-again not true.

so the laws seem to be working. Less accidental shootings and intentional killings even with 20 million or more guns in private hands

I suspect you really don't have a proposed solution-you just FEEL that SOMETHING has to be done

So the innocent dead in Colorado is just, then there's Virginia tech a mis, then there's Arizona , The little girl in Flint shot by a kid with a gun all after the sunset of Clinton's gun ban.
Yeah lets just forget about them huh.
Well these guys wasn't using a knife sooo gun control is in question.

So what do we do in the meantime wait for another NRA speech?

eace

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

presluc said:
So the innocent dead in Colorado is just, then there's Virginia tech a mis, then there's Arizona , The little girl in Flint shot by a kid with a gun all after the sunset of Clinton's gun ban.
Yeah lets just forget about them huh.
Well these guys wasn't using a knife sooo gun control is in question.

So what do we do in the meantime wait for another NRA speech?eace

and every year thousands upon thousands of people deter or stop crimes because they are armed

gun laws you probably want will make those beneficial uses of guns LESS COMMON while doing NOTHING to stop intentional criminal misconduct

until you come up with some proposed solutions I am going to see your posts as a waste of time on this issue

presluc · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
you are the one who wants changes yet you cannot say what you want

I think anyone with a brain understands that someone willing to commit capital murder and plots for months about killing people is not going to be deterred by some law that restricts or bans a gun

I don't think I'm the only American that wants stricter gu8n control , run the numbers try using all political parties.

Anyone with a brain might take into consideration, if someone is planning to kill someone with a gun making it difficult to aquire a gun would be a priority.

eace

TurtleDude · Jul 22, 2012

presluc said:
I don't think I'm the only American that wants stricter gu8n control , run the numbers try using all political parties.

Anyone with a brain might take into consideration, if someone is planning to kill someone with a gun making it difficult to aquire a gun would be a priority.eace

I keep asking for your proposed solution to make it tougher and you won't answer

and only an idiot would think that someone who went to all the planning to murder people as this nut did is going to be deterred.

I guess you haven't figured out that if the thought of being executed doesn't deter someone, they are pretty persistent at doing what they plan to do

the people who are going to be deterred by gun laws before they act aren't people who plan on murdering others

common sense-its a rare commodity among the handwringing hysterics

presluc · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
and every year thousands upon thousands of people deter or stop crimes because they are armed

gun laws you probably want will make those beneficial uses of guns LESS COMMON while doing NOTHING to stop intentional criminal misconduct

until you come up with some proposed solutions I am going to see your posts as a waste of time on this issue

How many guns were used in the movie in Denver to deter the shooter.

How about this for a solution either make gun control stricter or easier.
Before you look at that easier mark my try looking at some of the threatning blogs of the unemployed.

eace

Aberration · Jul 22, 2012

presluc said:
How many guns were used in the movie in Denver to deter the shooter.

How about this for a solution either make gun control stricter or easier.
Before you look at that easier mark my try looking at some of the threatning blogs of the unemployed.eace

You could not rightfully carry a gun in the movie theater.

That is the ultimate restriction, is it not? And what was the result?

presluc · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I keep asking for your proposed solution to make it tougher and you won't answer

and only an idiot would think that someone who went to all the planning to murder people as this nut did is going to be deterred.

I guess you haven't figured out that if the thought of being executed doesn't deter someone, they are pretty persistent at doing what they plan to do

the people who are going to be deterred by gun laws before they act aren't people who plan on murdering others

common sense-its a rare commodity among the handwringing hysterics

Common sense is a good phrase too bad it isn't used as often in America today.

When every year or so some nut comes out with guns or a gun and kills innocent people .
One does not have to have a high IQ. to figure out there's something about selling guns to weirdos that isn't right.
So is the background checks working?
If they were this conversation wouldn't be necessary.

So is it time for the NRA to stop collecting money, stop making speeches and get off their lazy ass and do something?
Yes I would say it is.

eace

Mustachio · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
I don't bother reading any further when you spew crap like the only purpose for owning a rifle like that is to kill other people

I have at least 6000 rounds of ammo because I buy 22 target ammo in lots of 5000 and 9mm and 556 Ammo in lots of 1000 because I and my family shoot 10-20,000 rounds a year

And what would be a legitimate purpose for owning a weapon "like that"

I checked the Smith and Wesson website and it said the weapon was for "tactical purposes"

And you're completely ignoring the issue. You and your family have a history of safely owning guns and safely using guns (I'm assuming you've owned and used them safely). Here's a guy who suddenly starts stockpiling ammunition and is calling around making suspicious calls to owners of shooting ranges. Or at least one of them. We have a system that allows any old crazy person to methodically plan and execute a deadly assault without any oversight whatsoever. He ordered them off of the internet! A felon could easily obtain anything Holmes had by simply having a friend fill out the order form. That's a horrible system. And you protect the sales of semi-automatic assault weapons for what purpose? "Tactical" purposes?

Furiounova · Jul 22, 2012

TurtleDude said:
Americans have bought millions of guns -often in reaction to clinton and Obama. yet the crime rate has gone down despite the fact that most states now allow CCW permits. Sarah Brady and other scum claimed that the CCW licenses would lead to blood in the streets-a silly prediction that now has become a bald faced lie. She and other scum claimed that the sunset of the clinton gun ban would cause tons of deaths-again not true.

so the laws seem to be working. Less accidental shootings and intentional killings even with 20 million or more guns in private hands

I suspect you really don't have a proposed solution-you just FEEL that SOMETHING has to be done

Have you ever considered how the hateful rhetoric in your posts may hinder support for your position?

Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

AdamT

Moot

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

Connery

presluc

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

presluc

Risky Thicket

Sewer Rat

Mustachio

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

AdamT

presluc

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

presluc

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

presluc

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

presluc

Aberration

presluc

Mustachio

Furiounova