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Fla. Deputies Shoot and Kill Man After Knocking On Wrong Door. ‎

Objective-J said:
1.)see post 321, this expression does not have to mean a planned suicide , so no i did not, false
2.) no this is you opinion NOT fact, false
3.) If the story is true Yes he did, true
4.) yes they are and theres no proof they didnt, none!
5.) this is true
6.) this is also true
7.) yes a bunch because most of that was not a fact

its seems you have a serious issue differentiating fact from opinion
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even more reason for you to get a new dictionary....
the courts will decide......
 
Ikari said:
1.)No...that's actually a real thing wherein it's not stupidity which gets one dead, but conscientious effort to force police to fire upon them because they are suicidal and a *****.

"Suicide by cop is a suicide method in which a suicidal individual deliberately acts in a threatening way, with the goal of provoking a lethal response from a law enforcement officer or other armed individual, such as being shot to death"

Thanks for playing

Hmmm, now should I claim your ignorance of this phenomenon is "faulty logic"?
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1,) are you serious, it happens for real?????

man i didnt know that, oh wait look ,i acknowledge that when i said "it doesnt HAVE to mean a planned suicide"

nice try but nobody ever said it wasnt also a real way to commit sucide

whooooooooops :laughat:

dude seriously you are going to burn yourself with this much egg on your face, stop while you are ahead you embreass yourself more with every post.
 
Ikari said:
Well these days it is tough to keep up on pop terms such as "suicide by cop" which isn't a stupidity thing, but an actual method of "suicide".
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another post that made yourself look silly :D
 
UtahBill said:
even more reason for you to get a new dictionary....
the courts will decide......
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translation: you cant prove your false facts so you go back to failed insults and being uncivil again, who didnt see that coming LMAO

you realize just by saying :the courts will decide" its an argument for ME LMAO
that statment means in fact that some of that is not determined yet, hence NOT A FACT :laughat:
 
UtahBill said:
for a "realist", you spend a lot of time in Fantasy land....
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look more failed insults
really. prove this statement true

its a fact that death by police is used for a stupidity reference and it is also real but the original poster made reference to Darwin Awards do you know what those awards are given out for?????


major stupidity, weird huh? LOL

the only fantasy around here is your "facts" :D
 
Objective-J said:
1,) are you serious, it happens for real?????

man i didnt know that, oh wait look ,i acknowledge that when i said "it doesnt HAVE to mean a planned suicide"

nice try but nobody ever said it wasnt also a real way to commit sucide

whooooooooops :laughat:

dude seriously you are going to burn yourself with this much egg on your face, stop while you are ahead you embreass yourself more with every post.
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I don't know. You had some points earlier on, but not on this one. You are wrong. Suicide by cop is not a stupidity thing. It refers to an actual, conscientious effort to force the police to shoot you. You're wrong on this one. It's OK. I'm not going to claim it's faulty logic or anything of the sort. Just enlightening you on the actual definition.
 
Objective-J said:
translation: you cant prove your false facts so you go back to failed insults and being uncivil again, who didnt see that coming LMAO

you realize just by saying :the courts will decide" its an argument for ME LMAO
that statment means in fact that some of that is not determined yet, hence NOT A FACT :laughat:
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uncivil? have you read your own posts?
 
Ikari said:
I don't know. You had some points earlier on, but not on this one. You are wrong. Suicide by cop is not a stupidity thing. It refers to an actual, conscientious effort to force the police to shoot you. You're wrong on this one. It's OK. I'm not going to claim it's faulty logic or anything of the sort. Just enlightening you on the actual definition.
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no I am not wrong LMAO look at the original post, what you are saying makes no logical sense not to mention this HUGE fact.

how are YOU going to tell US what WE were talking about and what we meant?? simply, you cant


suicide by cop is also a stupidity reference, thats a fact and you cant change that LMAO

simple question, if thats not how it was meant why the DARWIN reference?

why would, in your words, a "actual, conscientious effort to force the police to shoot you" be worthy of a darwism?????

thats right, it wouldnt, because that would be stupid and you are wrong :lamo

Like I said quit while you are ahead because you did all the work of making yourself look silly for me :lol:
 
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UtahBill said:
uncivil? have you read your own posts?
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sure have

whats uncivil about mine, though I do admit thats a pretty subjective word

typically mine are mostly factual and are talking about your lake of knowledge and education on the subject at hand and your inability to rational and intellectual decipher opinion vs fact in this story.

yours are just failed childish random attacks
 
Objective-J said:
LMAO more fantasy

ill stick with facts and what we know so far

deputies didnt screw up
a man is dead
the right man is dead because he is the stupid one that pointed his gun at people outside his door
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Well, I've actually worked with a police department and am familiar with standard protocols and procedures. You, clearly, are not.
 
DiAnna said:
Well, I've actually worked with a police department and am familiar with standard protocols and procedures. You, clearly, are not.
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really please point out the ones I got wrong with links that back that up and with more links showing thats how these deputies should have responded ;)

theres already other articles posted in this thread that support me

more cops werent needed, announcing themselves isnt required
 
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Objective-J said:
really please point out the ones I got wrong with links that back that up and with more links showing thats how these deputies should have responded ;)
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I and others have already told you the mistakes made. If they were coming in the middle of the night to capture a murderer, a well-trained LEO force following standard law enforcement procedures would have arrived with overwhelming force, known exactly which house/apartment the suspect was in, would have had a legal arrest warrant and loudly announced that fact while gaining entry and loudly announcing who they were as between 4-6 officers spilled in to clear and secure the residence. None of that occurred.

theres already other articles posted in this thread that support me
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It's the internet. You can find articles that support castrating infants at birth for population control if you search hard enough.

more cops werent needed, announcing themselves isnt required
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The fact that these deputies did not have the resources to control the situation, did not have appropriate backup, did not have a legal arrest warrant with the proper address, did not in fact have the proper address, awakened a homeowner who did not know who he was confronting in the middle of the night and legally brought his weapon to the door, and was killed by officers who had never announced themselves proves your statement is utterly wrong.

When the mission goes FUBAR and anyone, let alone the wrong person, is killed, it is never... NEVER... the fault of the dead guy who had no way of knowing it's the police at the door in the middle of the night.

At this point, you're just arguing for the sake of it so this will be my last post on the subject to you.
 
DiAnna said:
I and others have already told you the mistakes made. If they were coming in the middle of the night to capture a murderer, a well-trained LEO force following standard law enforcement procedures would have arrived with overwhelming force, known exactly which house/apartment the suspect was in, would have had a legal arrest warrant and loudly announced that fact while gaining entry and loudly announcing who they were as between 4-6 officers spilled in to clear and secure the residence. None of that occurred.



It's the internet. You can find articles that support castrating infants at birth for population control if you search hard enough.



The fact that these deputies did not have the resources to control the situation, did not have appropriate backup, did not have a legal arrest warrant with the proper address, did not in fact have the proper address, awakened a homeowner who did not know who he was confronting in the middle of the night and legally brought his weapon to the door, and was killed by officers who had never announced themselves proves your statement is utterly wrong.

When the mission goes FUBAR and anyone, let alone the wrong person, is killed, it is never... NEVER... the fault of the dead guy who had no way of knowing it's the police at the door in the middle of the night.

At this point, you're just arguing for the sake of it so this will be my last post on the subject to you.
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so basically you made a long post about your OPINION with no links, no proof even though there are articles here that back me up and give me proof that Im right? weird

the articles were statement from the police department/chief what ever talking about policies and protocol that they dont need to announce themselves

your post I corrected earlier and said was wrong about announcing ones self and saying more officers were need is WRONG :shrug:

thanks for you OPINION though but thats all it is, OPINION

they didnt need more resources by anything other than opinion
the didnt need more back up by anything other than opinion
they didnt need a arrest warrant since they were doing a door knocks
they didnt need the proper address since they were doing door knocks
nobody said it was illegal for him to bring his weapon to the door
they didnt need to announce themselves by anything other than your opinion

sorry but you havent proved anything but your unsupported opinion

currently with the info at hand it is in fact the dead mans fault because it was stupid to open the door and not ask who it is and then point a gun at who ever it is for no reason.

Currently its his fault and nothing factual proves different

sorry but all you have is your opinion and that is fine by me just admit thats all it is because once you push it as fact you are wrong :shrug:

I noticed how you dodged all my questions/requests too and I agree its probably best not to post to me until more info comes out or you have something more than opinion
 
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Objective-J said:
really please point out the ones I got wrong with links that back that up and with more links showing thats how these deputies should have responded ;)

theres already other articles posted in this thread that support me

more cops werent needed, announcing themselves isnt required
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what articles support you? what links?
 
UtahBill said:
post number?
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sure no problem

post: #217

Link: Lake deputies kill armed man: Lake deputies kill armed man in hunt for attempted-murder suspect - Orlando Sentinel

quote:

Deputies, however, did not announce who they were, said Sheriff's Office spokesman Lt. John Herrell, because they thought it would be more "tactically advantageous." Herrell said it is not standard procedure for deputies to announce their presence, but the officers were in uniform.

The resident answered armed with a gun, which he pointed at deputies. One of the deputies fatally shot the man, identified as Andrew Lee Scott, 26.

Herrell said the decision whether or not to announce law-enforcement presence is up to the deputy on the scene.
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you probably missed it because you were to busy focusing on the part afterwards about drugs and telling us we should expect a spin about drugs LOL another unsupported assumption

You're welcome
 
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Objective-J said:
sure no problem

post: #217

Link: Lake deputies kill armed man: Lake deputies kill armed man in hunt for attempted-murder suspect - Orlando Sentinel

quote:



you probably missed it because you were to busy focusing on the part afterwards about drugs and telling us we should expect a spin about drugs LOL another unsupported assumption

You're welcome
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NO, I never said what you claimed I said, someone in the link said it.
Here is a little exercise for you, read the first post, YOURS, and then note how you like the attention you get, but then turn into a petulant child when people start disagreeing with you. You get nasty....
here are some post numbers for you, I only went thru about 4 pages, but it should be enough.
33 54 62 66 67* 69 72
67 is the one where you first get petty and uncivil with me...you start these little flame wars and just keep escalating.
I hope you aren't in a job where you are allowed to carry a weapon....or have a CWP....the anger you exhibit here when challenged should be enough to deny you a CWP...
 
UtahBill said:
1.)NO, I never said what you claimed I said, someone in the link said it.
2.)Here is a little exercise for you, read the first post, YOURS, and then note how you like the attention you get, but then turn into a petulant child when people start disagreeing with you. You get nasty....
here are some post numbers for you, I only went thru about 4 pages, but it should be enough.
33 54 62 66 67* 69 72
67 is the one where you first get petty and uncivil with me...you start these little flame wars and just keep escalating.
3.)I hope you aren't in a job where you are allowed to carry a weapon....or have a CWP....the anger you exhibit here when challenged should be enough to deny you a CWP...
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:shock:LMAO :shock: oh the irony look how made you are because you got exposed LOL

1.) actually YOU said it about the drugs also in post 215 "the victim in this case supposedly had drugs in his home, and you can expect the sheriff's dept to spin that...."

2.) wrong I dont not get made for people "disagreeing" that is a bold face lie LOL
I have NO problem with people disagreeing I only point it out when people push lies and or opinion as truth like you did and you did it with no logical evidence, calling you out on that fact bothers you try not posting in that fashion :D

3.)
I do have a CWP and I have no anger hence me laughing and telling facts compared to you lashing out and just trying failed insults, the irony in your posts is staggering, it literally makes me laugh out loud at you

and again you prove it with ANOTHER off topic failed insults about guns, like I said before. Anything you call uncivil was actually on topic and pointing out how you were WRONG, your random childish off topic insults are clearly different LOL Mine are factual and have support yours are just random and you lashing out in anger

Its like you dont even realize what you post :shrug:

you have failed yet again :laughat:
 
UtahBill said:
when people start disagreeing with you. You get nasty....
here are some post numbers for you, I only went thru about 4 pages, but it should be enough.
33 54 62 66 67* 69 72
67 is the one where you first get petty and uncivil with me...you start these little flame wars and just keep escalating.
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just for fun I figured id look at your numbers

33, accurate & on topic
54 accurate & on topic
62 accurate & on topic
66 accurate & on topic
67 accurate & on topic

and in 67 the one where you claim im being pretty uncivil i even say this "I swear im not being a smart ass Im being as PC with you and logical/rational/reality based as I can."

yep so mean and angry or me :lamo

69 accurate & on topic
71 accurate & on topic

sigh, another fail
 
Objective-J said:
just for fun I figured id look at your numbers

33, accurate & on topic
54 accurate & on topic
62 accurate & on topic
66 accurate & on topic
67 accurate & on topic

and in 67 the one where you claim im being pretty uncivil i even say this "I swear im not being a smart ass Im being as PC with you and logical/rational/reality based as I can."

yep so mean and angry or me :lamo

69 accurate & on topic
71 accurate & on topic

sigh, another fail
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uncivil, every post....you start the thread, insult anyone who doesn't tell you how wonderful you are, and then lie to yourself about it.....get help, man, get help....
 
UtahBill said:
uncivil, every post....you start the thread, insult anyone who doesn't tell you how wonderful you are, and then lie to yourself about it.....get help, man, get help....
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look ANOTHER thread with no other purpose but to be uncivil and use failed insults, nothing on topic at all?? hmmmmm
LMAO thats funny

so pointing out facts is insulting? thats interesting, talk about being dishonest :D
 
Let me start by saying, from the reports the officer that shot is a K-9 officer, and has been working 40 hours plus of overtime every 2 weeks, for a month or more. He was also involved in another case where he was witness to a shooting of another person by one of his fellow LEO's (LEO=Law Enforcement Officer). It appears that it originally started because of a fight by another person that interjected himself, when one of two assailants slapped his girlfriend in the face. Police were called and the two assailants went separate ways one in a vehicle the other on a motorcycle. The one in the vehicle was apprehended and charged with a battery charge. The other on the motorcycle lost the police. He parked it in front of Mr. Scott's apartment. The officers came back approximately 15 mins later and found the motorcycle in the apartment’s parking lot. The charge against the second assailant (on the motorcycle, which turns out to be a Certified LEO) was originally Aggravated Battery or possibly Aggravated Assault, when dispatchers were talking. This was after the shooting of Mr. Scott, you can hear in the recording the one dispatcher explaining the person they were chasing, wanting to know if he was the one killed. In the hour that followed due to the shooting of Mr. Scott, and to justify the force used the charge was elevated to Attempted Murder. It also took a 1 1/2 to know that they had not got the suspect they were chasing and held off EMS from the scene (so witnesses have reported).

Here is a link to the Radio Dispatch Tape: Radio Calls: Police to Lake Co. sheriff night of... | WFTV Channel 9 Orlando, Daytona Beach, Melbourne, Central Florida | www.wftv.com

The Public Information Officer, Lt Harrell first reported his officers had announced themselves but had to come back and retract his statement. He also claimed they were chasing a violent criminal.

Does Aggravated Battery or Aggravated Assault require Deadly force? Or would a stun gun have been more appropriate in the situation?

If the person being chased had been cornered, Why was the other apartments evacuated, area secured, and their swat team brought in, they have been advertising on the media how good of a unit they have?

And since the officer that shot Mr. Scott, was a K-9 Officer why did he not us his dog to make sure the assailant had gone to that apartment?

Since the officer had witnessed the shooting less than two weeks ago, and having been working all the overtime was he on his "A" game?

They had their cars sitting with no lights, no sirens, and why is it there was no dash-cam pointed at this door to film what went down?

There seems to be a lot of mishandling on this case. It is most unfortunate for Mr. Scott and his Family and friends that a 26 year old young man’s life has been lost this way.

Consider what you would do if that had been you answering the door to your apartment, one entrance and someone is beating on it?

Consider also, What if that had been another LEO that they did not recognize, I can assure you they would have answered the door with a Firearm in hand. They probably would have shot an officer then.

This is truly a tragic occurrence, it smells of problems within the whole organization from the top down, within the Lake County Sheriff Office the good people of there deserve answers, and probably a written policy, or protocol for future incidents so another life will not be lost this way.

RIP - Andrew Scott
 
Isn't Florida that state with that stupid (IMHO) stand your ground law?

If a man gets a knock at 1.30am by unknown people who are standing in front of his door, does he not have the stand your ground law on his side when he opens the door with an intent to protect himself? Only to be gunned down by deputies who must have had their guns out to begin with.

Now if they had identified themselves as police officers than yes, this guy would have no reason to go to the door armed, but they didn't do that. So this was not a correct shooting IMHO. This man is the victim of failed police procedures.
 
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