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Fla. Deputies Shoot and Kill Man After Knocking On Wrong Door. ‎

Ikari said:
Yes, likely you shouldn't open a door while pointing the gun at anyone. Though just having the gun in hand is not that.

I guess the real moral of this story is to not open the door and just shoot through it, just in case cops are on the other side looking to gun your ass down.
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You could just not point your gun at cops. The result will always be the same if you do. And rightfully so.
 
Unless some now evidence pops up or some clever lawyer asks a few loaded questions then no crime was committed here. Well. There is no trail I mean to say. That's a given. With the proof at hand there is no crime. But that isn't to say the police shouldn't be fired. The guy never fired a shot. That alone is enough to prove he was never a true threat. Even if the cops thought so. They put themselves into that situation in that exact way with circumstantial evidence and have/had shoddy foresight. If they aren't fired they need to be immediately. JUST BASED ON THE FACT the victim never fired a shot, hence everything about the cops instincts for THIS job was wrong.

The victim pointing a gun directly at police is speculation. The cops put themselves directly into this situation. The victim reacted. Its been proven that the victim was purely defensive and never an actual threat by the fact that the cops were never shot at. The man didnt seek out the cops and then this happened. There were banging on some door with weapons drawn (pointing guns at the victim) just because some criminal ditched a bike. At 1 in the morning....

Cops had death dealing ready. Pounding on door. Think about what that might look like to a homeowner with a gun.

*BANG BANG BANG*

What the ****?

BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG*

Holy crap.. Someone is WAILING on my door.

You grab your piece and run to the door and slowly peek up to and out of the peep hole. You don't see two men. You don't see 2 gangsters. You don't see 2 cops. Just 2 guns at the ready pointing inward to the center of your peep hole. From the angle it cant be a guy hiding below the peephole pointing 2 guns into view like a jackass. There must be 2 men hugging either side of the door ready for your ass. You could try running out the back door. What if there is another waiting? Could wait in a dark corner under cover here... Wait for them to bust in. What if they were hardcore and had rapid fire pistols? Could open the door and maybe get off a few pop shots in time. They cant be cops right?? Cops announce themselves before they do this ****. ****.. What do?
 
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Ikari said:
I need evidence. What we have is government force applied against the most fundamental of rights. The government is not assumed innocent, the government must PROVE it acted properly. If they cannot offer up the evidence, then actions must be taken against them.
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So if a person attempts to murder a cop, and noone is there to see if the cops should accept death or prison? Should they ask the guy to write a statement admitting his intent, or should they ask him to hold on till witnesses arrive? Please tell me what a group of cops should do when they are about to murdered without other witnesses.
 
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muciti said:
You could just not point your gun at cops. The result will always be the same if you do. And rightfully so.
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Are you trying to say that if you don't point your gun at the cops, you still get shot and rightfully so? Cause that's what your sentence here says.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Unless some now evidence pops up or some clever lawyer asks a few loaded questions then no crime was committed here. Well. There is no trail I mean to say. That's a given. With the proof at hand there is no crime. But that isn't to say the police shouldn't be fired. The guy never fired a shot. That alone is enough to save he was never a true threat. Even if the cops thought so. They put themselves into that situation in that exact way with circumstantial evidence and have shoddy foresight. If they aren't fired they need to be immediately. JUST BASED ON THE FACT the victim never fired a shot, hence everything about the cops instincts for THIS job was wrong.

The victim pointing a gun directly at police is speculation. The cops put themselves directly into this situation. The victim reacted. Its been proven that the victim was purely defensive and never an actual threat by the fact that the cops were never shot at. The man didnt seek out the cops and then this happened. There were banging on some door with weapons drawn (pointing guns at the victim) just because some some criminal ditched a bike. At 1 in the morning....

Cops had death dealing ready. Pounding on door. Think about what that might look like to a homeowner with a gun.

*BANG BANG BANG*

What the ****?

BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG*

Holy crap.. Someone is WAILING on my door.

You grab your piece and run to the door and slowly peek up to and out of the peep hole. You don't see two men. You don't see 2 gangsters. You don't see 2 cops. Just 2 guns at the ready pointing inward to the center of your peep hole. From the angle it cant be a guy hiding below the peephole pointing 2 guns into view like a jackass. There must be 2 men hugging either side of the door ready for your ass. You could try running out the back door. What if there is another waiting? Could wait in a dark corner under cover here... Wait for them to bust in. What if they were hardcore and had rapid fire pistols? Could open the door and maybe get off a few pop shots in time. They cant be cops right?? Cops announce themselves before they do this ****. ****.. What do?
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no just because he never fired is NOT reason enough to fire cops and say he wasnt a threat LMAO

it actually means nothing, many of perps have been shot before they got the chance, you cant wait for shots fired LOL

its not speculation that he pointed the gun, it COULD be a lie but its not speculation
It has NOT been proven he wasnt a threat by any means LMAO

you also claim they were pointing their guns first, they MIGHT have been which they can but thats not in either article.

your "dramatic" reenactment is nothing but fantasy since you werent there

the point is unless you try to invent things, the cops arent at fault for anything yet :shrug:

maybe something will come out to change that, but currently they arent at fault for anything
 
Ikari said:
Yes, likely you shouldn't open a door while pointing the gun at anyone. Though just having the gun in hand is not that.

I guess the real moral of this story is to not open the door and just shoot through it, just in case cops are on the other side looking to gun your ass down.
Click to expand...

uhm the point is you called his actions reasonable, thats wrong, they were not per the story provided.

Per the details we have he he pointed his gun :shrug:
 
Objective-J said:
thats what I think too

and from the article he just didnt open the door with gun in hand but pointed it.
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It's the reason you keep the gun out of sight until you intend to shoot. Once you point it you've given the other guy permission to kill you whether it's the police or not. On the other hand, had he known it was the police I'm pretty sure he would not have picked a gun up. The police tend to come out on top in those kinds of encounters, and God help you if you actually manage to kill the policeman. There's a guy in prison in Florida who killed a policeman who stormed into his house, the wrong house, in a no-knock raid at night.
 
Objective-J said:
uhm the point is you called his actions reasonable, thats wrong, they were not per the story provided.

Per the details we have he he pointed his gun :shrug:
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The most unbiased of sources at this time say he had a gun, not that he was pointing it. The cops who did the deed are claiming it was pointed at them and they'll need to demonstrate that.
 
Ikari said:
The most unbiased of sources at this time say he had a gun, not that he was pointing it. The cops who did the deed are claiming it was pointed at them and they'll need to demonstrate that.
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What? They dont need to prove that because it is not provable beyond their own words. Can you please address post 203

What source says he didnt?
 
muciti said:
let me know when you are back on topic. ill be here for a bit.
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I was asking for clarification of your sentence as what you wrote seems to suggest that with gun or not, he was rightfully shot by the cops. But if you wanna play deflection games, so be it. Just says a lot about your intellectual honesty in your arguments.
 
muciti said:
What? They dont need to prove that because it is not provable beyond their own words. Can you please address post 203

What source says he didnt?
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So as long as something is "not provable beyond their own words" the government may do as it likes?
 
LowDown said:
It's the reason you keep the gun out of sight until you intend to shoot. Once you point it you've given the other guy permission to kill you whether it's the police or not. On the other hand, had he known it was the police I'm pretty sure he would not have picked a gun up. The police tend to come out on top in those kinds of encounters, and God help you if you actually manage to kill the policeman. There's a guy in prison in Florida who killed a policeman who stormed into his house, the wrong house, in a no-knock raid at night.
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yep , common sense says you just dont point a gun at someone for knocking on your door
also he could of simply said "who is it?" if he was mad who could of said "who the **** is it?"

EDIT: also not familiar with the case you mention the end but I dont like it per the detail you gave seems like its BS to put that guy away
 
Ikari said:
The most unbiased of sources at this time say he had a gun, not that he was pointing it. The cops who did the deed are claiming it was pointed at them and they'll need to demonstrate that.
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Unbiased sources according to who?
why are they sources? they werent there

anyway back on point

theres no reason to deem that he acted reasonable, thats the point.

If some NEW EVIDENCE comes out then maybe we can say he did, currently per the info he did not
 
UtahBill said:
Lake deputies kill armed man: Lake deputies kill armed man in hunt for attempted-murder suspect - Orlando Sentinel

only the cops say he pointed the gun, shouldn't the media be saying he "alledgedly" pointed the gun?
but no matter, the victim in this case supposedly had drugs in his home, and you can expect the sheriff's dept to spin that....
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Is there any evidence other than the cops word? Anything at all to refute it? Any evidence that he didnt point the gun at them?
 
From the sentinal article. Here is what we know as fact.

A deputy spotted the suspect riding a motorcycle but he was able to elude capture, the Sheriff's Office said. Deputies later found the bike parked at an apartment complex, and knocked on the door of the nearest apartment at about 1:30 a.m.

Deputies, however, did not announce who they were, said Sheriff's Office spokesman Lt. John Herrell, because they thought it would be more "tactically advantageous." Herrell said it is not standard procedure for deputies to announce their presence, but the officers were in uniform.

The resident answered armed with a gun, which he pointed at deputies. One of the deputies fatally shot the man, identified as Andrew Lee Scott, 26.

Herrell said the decision whether or not to announce law-enforcement presence is up to the deputy on the scene.
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Here is what we know that refutes it.

 
muciti said:
So if a person attempts to murder a cop, and noone is there to see if the cops should accept death or prison? Should they ask the guy to write a statement admitting his intent, or should they ask him to hold on till witnesses arrive? Please tell me what a group of cops should do when they are about to murdered without other witnesses.
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He can't get prison since that would require the State to prove that he acted improperly and at that time he is viewed as an individual. He may have penalties against his profession as a cop, however, if he cannot prove that as a cop he acted diligently and within the rights and liberties of the individual.
 
I really have no clue hoe about 4 people are fired up about this and assume wrong doing LOL

Could the cops have been at fault?
abosfreakinlutley! lol but theres no evidence of that yet

IF some turns up Ill want the cops charged/fired/suspended or whatever myself

currently as it stands the cops arent at fault and the guy is :shrug:

these are the current facts

if you have a GUESS or OPINION that it might of happened different thats fine but thats all it is, its a guess based off other guesses
 
muciti said:
From the sentinal article. Here is what we know as fact.



Here is what we know that refutes it.
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As fact we know that the cops did not announce themselves and that they shot the man dead. We do not know if he pointed a gun at the cops.
 
Ikari said:
He can't get prison since that would require the State to prove that he acted improperly and at that time he is viewed as an individual. He may have penalties against his profession as a cop, however, if he cannot prove that as a cop he acted diligently and within the rights and liberties of the individual.
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You are not answering my question. You quoted my post which is a good start, but you failed to address it. I am asking you what a cop should do if someone is trying to murder them and no 3rd party witnesses happen to be watching.

Should the cop just lay down and be killed?
 
Ikari said:
As fact we know that the cops did not announce themselves and that they shot the man dead. We do not know if he pointed a gun at the cops.
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Every witness to the shooting says he did. Also the cops arent denying they didnt announce themselves nor are they legally required to unless they intend to forcibly enter the property.
 
UtahBill said:
Lake deputies kill armed man: Lake deputies kill armed man in hunt for attempted-murder suspect - Orlando Sentinel

only the cops say he pointed the gun, shouldn't the media be saying he "alledgedly" pointed the gun?
but no matter, the victim in this case supposedly had drugs in his home, and you can expect the sheriff's dept to spin that....
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spin it?
I say it COULD be a real factor but I stress the word "could" it could also be a non-factor

if he was high it could explain why he acted so paranoid and opened the door pointing his gun.

Now this is just my opinion but to do that I think a person would have to be high or mentally incompetent .

I think thats interesting and I hope they test his blood and release the toxicology report
 
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