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Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

VanceMack said:
I believe a lot of people have completely missed the what and why to what Obama said. He wasnt calling for more government involvement. His message wasnt a slam at business owners. In the context and to the audience he was addressing, his message was..."all those rich people...they didnt get rich by themselves. You the poor and disenfranchised public created everything for them and then they have exploited it. And you. Thats why you need to reelect me and give me another four years to go after for you what really and truly is rightfully yours...MORE of their wealth. Its only fair after all." It was typical pure populist tripe...and his supporters eat it with a big ol spoon.
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What? Created everything for them? Read the speech again:

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together."
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

VanceMack said:
I believe a lot of people have completely missed the what and why to what Obama said. He wasnt calling for more government involvement. His message wasnt a slam at business owners. In the context and to the audience he was addressing, his message was..."all those rich people...they didnt get rich by themselves. You the poor and disenfranchised public created everything for them and then they have exploited it. And you. Thats why you need to reelect me and give me another four years to go after for you what really and truly is rightfully yours...MORE of their wealth. Its only fair after all." It was typical pure populist tripe...and his supporters eat it with a big ol spoon.
Click to expand...

Well, you're closer than some. He certainly is lookig at getting re-elected. But I think when he siad this is the point, I think that was clue that it was the point. ;)
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

teamosil said:
What? Created everything for them? Read the speech again:

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together."
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Yep...Ive read the speech. I know PRECISELY what he was saying and who he was saying it to. The reality is that most of those successful businessmen? They DID in fact pay for those roads, bridges, and existing infrastructure as citizens, and likely FAR MORE than the people Obama was pandering to. The wealthy pay the lions share of property and every other type of income taxes. Businesses...thats a bit of a separate deal. I own businesses. Those roads? That infrastructure/ Hell yes I paid for them. My business? The investment of capital and startup costs? Did that too. But hey. Never let facts get in the way of stirring up a bunch of 'disenfranchised' voters.

That message was all about pandering. He just did it in such a stupid way that it has reached up and smacked him in the teeth.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

VanceMack said:
Yep...Ive read the speech. I know PRECISELY what he was saying and who he was saying it to. The reality is that most of those successful businessmen? They DID in fact pay for those roads, bridges, and existing infrastructure as citizens, and likely FAR MORE than the people Obama was pandering to. The wealthy pay the lions share of property and every other type of income taxes. Businesses...thats a bit of a separate deal. I own businesses. Those roads? That infrastructure/ Hell yes I paid for them. My business? The investment of capital and startup costs? Did that too. But hey. Never let facts get in the way of stirring up a bunch of 'disenfranchised' voters.

That message was all about pandering. He just did it in such a stupid way that it has reached up and smacked him in the teeth.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you misunderstand the message or if you actually do object to what I consider an utterly unobjectionable message.

The message is that of course business owners get some credit for the success of their businesses, but so do their employees, the taxpayers, the teachers who taught them and their employees, etc. Do you disagree that that is the message? Or do you disagree that that is true?
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

teamosil said:
I'm not sure if you misunderstand the message or if you actually do object to what I consider an utterly unobjectionable message.

The message is that of course business owners get some credit for the success of their businesses, but so do their employees, the taxpayers, the teachers who taught them and their employees, etc. Do you disagree that that is the message? Or do you disagree that that is true?
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I disagree. Heres why. I have several ventures and recently, along with a partner we decided to start another one. You and no one else are involved in that process. Without our decision to invest time, capital, stress, etc. there are NO new jobs. WITH our decision...that of me and my partner...we now have 11 employees and 12 people have full time income. I do not take full time income from the job. Without us...nothing. Now...we all paid taxes prior to that decision. We all built those roads. I bust my ass in planning for a better future for myself and my family. Yes...that holds reward, but believe me...I PAY taxes...a LOT of taxes. I pay taxes on homes, rentals, and a commercial property. As a citizen I EXPECT to. As a businessman...someone that TAKES risk and provides for jobs, I get a little tired of the whiny little ****s that believe we are all somehow equal partners in this process and they are entitled to MORE of the profits my work creates. I get tired of the 'fair share' rhetoric, because thats all it is. Hell...lets be honest...if more people carried their own 'fair share' they wouldnt be such a drain on society. I get tired of the politicians and their pandering messages. They KEEP crippled dependent pets crippled and dependent...and voting for them.

No...I dont at all agree with the 'message' because the message was not "we are all part of this great community" but rather "Reelect me and I will give you more **** you havent earned by taking from those that have!" See...YOU think that message is awesome. I find it repugnant. You think Im a mean evil cruel horrible capitalist that hates poor people. The reality is...well...twofold. 1-I couldnt give a **** what you think and 2-I think it is inhuman to not only enable people to remain crippled and dependent but to CAUSE it. You are fine with people groveling for crumbs and endorse those messages...take from the rich so the poor can have more crumbs. My message is hey...stand the **** up. Go fight for those jobs from the illegal immigrants. Work two and three jobs to provide for yourself and your family. Plan for a future and stop expecting politicians to save you.

You see where we differ...
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

VanceMack said:
I disagree. Heres why. I have several ventures and recently, along with a partner we decided to start another one. You and no one else are involved in that process. Without our decision to invest time, capital, stress, etc. there are NO new jobs. WITH our decision...that of me and my partner...we now have 11 employees and 12 people have full time income. I do not take full time income from the job. Without us...nothing.
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Nobody is disagreeing with any of that of course. That's great, you should get boatloads of credit for starting the business. That doesn't mean that nobody else helped make it possible too. Without those employees, it wouldn't be what it is today, would it?

VanceMack said:
No...I dont at all agree with the 'message' because the message was not "we are all part of this great community" but rather "Reelect me and I will give you more **** you havent earned by taking from those that have!"
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You're just making things up and getting mad about them. Nobody said anything like that.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

teamosil said:
He isn't pointing out anything at all about my posts. He's just ranting about how he hates liberals.
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He explained, in clear terms. what he thinks of disengenuous partisan posts like yours. If the truth hurts, that just the way life is.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

Bobcat said:
He explained, in clear terms. what he thinks of disengenuous partisan posts like yours. If the truth hurts, that just the way life is.
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LOL no kiddo. He didn't respond to even one of my points. He just babbled about things he hates about liberals.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

This is going to be a somewhat long post...sorry.
teamosil;1060737004]What? Created everything for them? Read the speech again:

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back.
Click to expand...
There is absolutely NOTHING stopping those people from doing so currently, no matter WHO is president.
They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there."
Click to expand...
I'll tell you right now...I've gotten to where I'm at EXACTLY because I've worked harder than everyone else around me. Why did I get a promotion? Because I'm better than the other applicants that were up for promotion. Why did I get a higher raise? Because I yielded better results over the course of the period. No one helped me, no one held my hand, no said "Hey, kevin, I'm gonna give you a hand here, so you can take the credit, and get the bennies after the fact."
"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.
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Yes. I call them every sunday. They're my parents.
There was a great teacher somewhere in your life.
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Who gets paid a pretty darn good salary, considering they only work 9 months outa the year.
Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive.
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None of THEM worked for free, either...and, ever since Lincoln, none of them were FORCED to do so.
Somebody invested in roads and bridges.
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Yes. They're called tax payers, which, last time I checked, business owners are a part of that club.
If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.
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Sure they did, and they were paid for their services...so?
The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
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No, government research created it FIRST for the military. That it made it's way into the civilian life is simply due to the nature of the internet itself. Also, again, those researchers got paid (WELL) for their services.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.
Click to expand...
100% true.
There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.
Click to expand...
Debatable. But also irrelevant. Current tax rates already afford us firefighters, do they not? Beyond that, most of the US land area is covered and protected by volunteer firemen.
"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together."
Click to expand...
Reading between the lines, I can easily see why one would think this message is about making others "pay their fair share", which is code for further taxing the wealthy.

I am reminded of a little story about a group of people who go out to get some beers...
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

KevinKohler said:
I've gotten to where I'm at EXACTLY because I've worked harder than everyone else around me. Why did I get a promotion? Because I'm better than the other applicants that were up for promotion. Why did I get a higher raise? Because I yielded better results over the course of the period. No one helped me, no one held my hand, no said "Hey, kevin, I'm gonna give you a hand here, so you can take the credit, and get the bennies after the fact."
Click to expand...

That just isn't reality. In reality your success depends on the efforts of millions of others. Where would you be if it were not for the guy who invented the polio vaccine in 1955? Where would you be if the country had no roads? If it had been taken over by the Nazis? If the currency were experiencing 1,500% inflation every year? If warlords rules the neighborhood you lived in growing up who captured you as a slave? If you couldn't trust that the water won't make you sick? If you were never taught how to read? Etc.

This is not in any way about trying to diminish your contributions. In fact, it should make you more proud of what you've accomplished. There are other people, many of whom you may not ever meet, who you are helping succeed by doing all those things. The point isn't that small business owners suck or something ridiculous. The point is that we are all interconnected. The accomplishments of one person ripple out to boost up many other people, and in turn, those people are able to accomplish more themselves, causing more ripples to go out. The accomplishments might be opening a business, they might be inventing something, they might be helping a 6 year old finally figure out what math is about, they might be any of a huge list of things. All the people accomplishing all those things should be able to feel proud of what they contribute, but for some reason, there seems to be this notion on the right that any of those people who aren't rich and don't own businesses have done nothing of value and should be demeaned. You guys need to cut that out. It's gross and it just plain isn't true.

KevinKohler said:
Who gets paid a pretty darn good salary, considering they only work 9 months outa the year. None of THEM worked for free, either...and, ever since Lincoln, none of them were FORCED to do so.
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Of course. Business owners profit off their labors too. Why do you think the fact that teachers and employees are paid means they deserve no credit, but you don't think that with regards to owners?

KevinKohler said:
Yes. They're called tax payers, which, last time I checked, business owners are a part of that club.
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Absolutely and they should definitely be proud of that. That's the point.

KevinKohler said:
100% true.
Click to expand...

That is the summary of the whole speech that you are saying is 100% true...
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

VanceMack said:
Yep...Ive read the speech. I know PRECISELY what he was saying and who he was saying it to. The reality is that most of those successful businessmen? They DID in fact pay for those roads, bridges, and existing infrastructure as citizens, and likely FAR MORE than the people Obama was pandering to. The wealthy pay the lions share of property and every other type of income taxes. Businesses...thats a bit of a separate deal. I own businesses. Those roads? That infrastructure/ Hell yes I paid for them. My business? The investment of capital and startup costs? Did that too. But hey. Never let facts get in the way of stirring up a bunch of 'disenfranchised' voters.

That message was all about pandering. He just did it in such a stupid way that it has reached up and smacked him in the teeth.
Click to expand...

Amen brother.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

VanceMack said:
I disagree. Heres why. I have several ventures and recently, along with a partner we decided to start another one. You and no one else are involved in that process. Without our decision to invest time, capital, stress, etc. there are NO new jobs. WITH our decision...that of me and my partner...we now have 11 employees and 12 people have full time income. I do not take full time income from the job. Without us...nothing. Now...we all paid taxes prior to that decision. We all built those roads. I bust my ass in planning for a better future for myself and my family. Yes...that holds reward, but believe me...I PAY taxes...a LOT of taxes. I pay taxes on homes, rentals, and a commercial property. As a citizen I EXPECT to. As a businessman...someone that TAKES risk and provides for jobs, I get a little tired of the whiny little ****s that believe we are all somehow equal partners in this process and they are entitled to MORE of the profits my work creates. I get tired of the 'fair share' rhetoric, because thats all it is. Hell...lets be honest...if more people carried their own 'fair share' they wouldnt be such a drain on society. I get tired of the politicians and their pandering messages. They KEEP crippled dependent pets crippled and dependent...and voting for them.

No...I dont at all agree with the 'message' because the message was not "we are all part of this great community" but rather "Reelect me and I will give you more **** you havent earned by taking from those that have!" See...YOU think that message is awesome. I find it repugnant. You think Im a mean evil cruel horrible capitalist that hates poor people. The reality is...well...twofold. 1-I couldnt give a **** what you think and 2-I think it is inhuman to not only enable people to remain crippled and dependent but to CAUSE it. You are fine with people groveling for crumbs and endorse those messages...take from the rich so the poor can have more crumbs. My message is hey...stand the **** up. Go fight for those jobs from the illegal immigrants. Work two and three jobs to provide for yourself and your family. Plan for a future and stop expecting politicians to save you.

You see where we differ...
Click to expand...

Double amen. Our government's constant pursuit of all things equality will be the undoing of this country. Equality stops at enforcement of the law and the Constitution. After that, its put up or shut up time. If someone doesn't want to put forth the effort or risk to succeed, they fail. Thats the risk/reward of this beautiful thing we call liberty. Now, that doesn't mean the failure has to sleep in the street. But it definitely doesn't mean he expects you to give him everything you worked for either. I don't see any of the Olympians giving half of their gold medal to anyone right now on TV. I see Ryan Lochte standing on top of the podium enjoying his win. I see a guy standing up there that knows he worked for that medal. And I see Michael Phelps in the pool realizing he didn't work as hard as he should've. What I don't see is Phelps at the bottom of the podium with his hand out. There are winners and losers guys. Thats the way it is. If you don't like, move to another country. Ours is built on winners and losers.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

MarineTpartier said:
Double amen. Our government's constant pursuit of all things equality will be the undoing of this country. Equality stops at enforcement of the law and the Constitution. After that, its put up or shut up time. If someone doesn't want to put forth the effort or risk to succeed, they fail. Thats the risk/reward of this beautiful thing we call liberty. Now, that doesn't mean the failure has to sleep in the street. But it definitely doesn't mean he expects you to give him everything you worked for either. I don't see any of the Olympians giving half of their gold medal to anyone right now on TV. I see Ryan Lochte standing on top of the podium enjoying his win. I see a guy standing up there that knows he worked for that medal. And I see Michael Phelps in the pool realizing he didn't work as hard as he should've. What I don't see is Phelps at the bottom of the podium with his hand out. There are winners and losers guys. Thats the way it is. If you don't like, move to another country. Ours is built on winners and losers.
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Unfortunately, we have a rather large percentage of our country that are "whiners and losers" and boy, dont dems know how to strum them like a well worn base.The comical part is, hell...even Obama gets the whole winning thing. He didnt donate the proceeds to the book he (couch cough) 'wrote' to all the poor, hell no. He gave a huge junk of it to JP Morgan to invest. His comments, which were delivered so poorly that they have smacked him in the face 1-show how goofy he is without his teleprompter and any time he adopts that folksy, "I'm a brotherner, just like y'all" dialect, and 2-he has every intention of continuing to pander to the crippled and dependent pets. That comment was never meant to attack business owners...it was meant to rile the poor to re-elect him so they could lay claim to what is 'rightfully' theirs.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

VanceMack said:
Unfortunately, we have a rather large percentage of our country that are "whiners and losers"
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Why can't liberals go do their jobs without whining and complaining? They whine and complain about everything. The whining and complaining never stops. They just don't know any better, they whine and complain to no end.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

johnny_rebson said:
Why can't liberals go do their jobs without whining and complaining? They whine and complain about everything. The whining and complaining never stops. They just don't know any better, they whine and complain to no end.
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What a whiny and complainey statement.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

Why can't righties go do their jobs without whining and complaining? They whine and complain about everything. The whining and complaining never stops. They just don't know any better, they whine and complain to no end.



notice how well my little change works?


Just who is "whining and complaining" here?
Those who think every successful person in America did everything all by themselves without any help from anybody else.
Those who whine when gay couples ask for the same rights as hetero couples, as if granting equal rights to all somehow takes something away from the already privileged.
Those who whine when it is pointed out that this nation was not founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
Those who whine when they are asked to help support the less fortunate.
Those who whine when science teachers tell their children that a creation story from an ancient text is not science.

The list of whiners and complainers goes on and on. At this time it does seem to me that most of the whining is coming from those who are afraid that their previously privileged position in our society is under threat by those they consider unworthy. All aided and abetted by a well-funded noise machine whose goals will actually do more to suppress the majority than anything on the left's agenda.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

johnny_rebson said:
Why can't liberals go do their jobs without whining and complaining? They whine and complain about everything. The whining and complaining never stops. They just don't know any better, they whine and complain to no end.
Click to expand...
Its not all liberals. Many fields are dominated by liberals, even (gasp) capitalist liberals. If the polling is any indication, Obama's support with most 'liberals' is waning because he spends so much time blaming others for his inability and for pandering to the poor with the worst kind of cheap rhetoric. Things ARENT getting better and most liberals know that. Mind you, they arent going to switch affiliation or vote for Romney. but many just wont be voting this year.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

johnny_rebson said:
Why can't liberals go do their jobs without whining and complaining? They whine and complain about everything. The whining and complaining never stops. They just don't know any better, they whine and complain to no end.
Click to expand...

that defective liberal gene (DRD4) makes them whiners and complainers. Look it up, all liberals have a defective gene.
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

VanceMack said:
Its not all liberals. Many fields are dominated by liberals, even (gasp) capitalist liberals. If the polling is any indication, Obama's support with most 'liberals' is waning because he spends so much time blaming others for his inability and for pandering to the poor with the worst kind of cheap rhetoric. Things ARENT getting better and most liberals know that. Mind you, they arent going to switch affiliation or vote for Romney. but many just wont be voting this year.
Click to expand...


At least some liberals are upset with the President simply because he is not a liberal and has not promoted a progressive agenda not because "he spends so much time blaming others". While there are other reasons behind the right's attacks


More and more are seeing that many of the attacks on the President are simply based on his race and irrational beliefs about him. In the past two years, the belief that Obama is a "secret Muslim" has doubled amongst Republicans.
Nearly one in three Republicans said Obama was Muslim, twice as many as in 2008, the Pew study shows.

“Unfortunately there has been a development of a bizarre echo chamber within right wing of the political spectrum that truth and reality have failed to penetrate,” said Ibrahim Hooper, communications director at Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington-based Muslim civil rights and advocacy group. “It’s a self-perpetuating, self-reinforcing delusion.”
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Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

Somerville said:
At least some liberals are upset with the President simply because he is not a liberal and has not promoted a progressive agenda not because "he spends so much time blaming others". While there are other reasons behind the right's attacks


More and more are seeing that many of the attacks on the President are simply based on his race and irrational beliefs about him. In the past two years, the belief that Obama is a "secret Muslim" has doubled amongst Republicans.
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Oh my god how unbelievably ****ing pathetic. The race card. How...boring and unoriginal. People oppose Obama for the same reason leftists opposed Bush. They DISAGREE WITH THEIR POLITICS. Racism...geeeeeeezu.... :lamo
 
Re: No dumb ass, but you've finished confirming what I have been thinking about you.

Somerville said:
More and more are seeing that many of the attacks on the President are simply based on his race and irrational beliefs about him.
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Have you or any of the just as extreme as the birthers race card players like you ever thought that maybe people criticize President Obama because he sucks? Why is your group so bent on deflecting away criticism by claiming racism? I wouldn't care if he was pink. He's a utopiatarian that thinks anyone who strives to be better must have stepped on someone's head to get there. He is someone who tries to bring the successful and affluent down to the same level as the unsuccessful and struggling in the name of equality.
Somerville said:
In the past two years, the belief that Obama is a "secret Muslim" has doubled amongst Republicans.
Click to expand...
Oh, I'm sure you have polling numbers or something to support that right? You wouldn't just say something like that.
 
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