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Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I wish did, but I didn't.

A business that uses and depends on paper in order to be successful, depends on other people to log and mill the trees and railroads to transport the trees and paper companies to make the trees into paper and trucks and roads to transport the paper to the business. That's a lot of people that helped to make that one business do it's thing to be successful. Like Obama said, no one gets successful all by themselves.


Your "business depends on other businesses" scenerio sounds about right. It's called customer and consumer. The paper using business needs paper. The tree cutting company needs someone to sell to; thus the mill that takes the tree and make the tree into pulp. The pulp is sold to a paper making company who sends it finished product to a Staples who sells to the "business who needs paper.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I wish did, but I didn't.

A business that uses and depends on paper in order to be successful, depends on other people to log and mill the trees and railroads to transport the trees and paper companies to make the trees into paper and trucks and roads to transport the paper to the business. That's a lot of people that helped to make that one business do it's thing to be successful. Like Obama said, no one gets successful all by themselves.

I have a small residential construction biz and I cannot even begin to list the different materials I need but here is some off the top of my head:

nails
sheetrock
lumber in various forms
steel screws
wood screws
concrete screws
construction paper
three different kinds of tape
cleaning supplies
primer for various surfaces
vinyl siding
plywood
roof shingles
paints and stains for numerous applications
invoices and other typical office supplies
cell phone
computer
vehicle
pressure washer
drills of various kinds
saw of various kinds
extension cords
ladders
etc

If I had to come up with those products myself.....goodness...

I rather despise other biz owners who try to say they did it all themselves because it is unbelievably selfish. Without employees I could not have the jobs done on time. Without the clients I wouldn't have the projects to employ people.

I spend a ton of time behind the scenes so yes I am working more than the people working for me but I still could not do it without them and I pay them on a base scale + performance so they have an honest incentive to work hard knowing I'm not keeping all the money no matter how hard they work.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Do you know the difference between somebody GIVING you something and you working cooperatively with others so that their is mutual benefit and gain? That is a concept that we try to teach small children. It is sad that some on the far right never learned this or forgot the lesson as they aged.

This statement, as it stands alone here, is a hoot!!!

And to answer it, "Yes, the entire right side of the aisle has understood this for decades."
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Your "business depends on other businesses" scenerio sounds about right. It's called customer and consumer. The paper using business needs paper. The tree cutting company needs someone to sell to; thus the mill that takes the tree and make the tree into pulp. The pulp is sold to a paper making company who sends it finished product to a Staples who sells to the "business who needs paper.

By Jov, I think you've got it. :)
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

This statement, as it stands alone here, is a hoot!!!

And to answer it, "Yes, the entire right side of the aisle has understood this for decades."

Than parisan hyperbole and misrepresentations aside, we're all supportive of the same thing. You and Haymarket, as well Moot and Billy the Kid, show both sides see the same thing. Only political ideology and misrepresentations divide us.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

This statement, as it stands alone here, is a hoot!!!

And to answer it, "Yes, the entire right side of the aisle has understood this for decades."

Then why do so many of them sing a solo of Frank Sinatra's I DID IT MY WAY and actually believe they accomplished everything all by themsleves?

Who do so many on the right refuse to admit that society and its desginated government plays a huge role in making this a great country and contributing to the success of the American people?
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Some different people in different threads and it's both the same general topic so my further thoughts...

After listening to Romney's speech yesterday, I must say I think the two speeches highlight what I said very early on. The notion of the Community and the Individual is a symbiotic relationship and different views by different people, typically along ideological lines, place greater importance on one side while downplaying the other side. What this does is present to very different and distinct views and thought processes to the American People and allows us to see, at least in this particular snap shot of history, which way they gravitate to more. It is not shocking that many liberals were very happy (or at worst acknowledged a poor choice of phrasing but enjoyed the over all message) with Obama's speech...it was well delivered and eloquated the "COMMUNITY individual" mindset well. On the flip side, it's not shocking that Conservatives...even those that have been luke warm on Romney...have been rather happy with his recent speech in response that does a good job promoting the notiong of "INDIVIDUAL community". In both instances, the person does not directly and clearly actually ridicule the notion opposite that which they decide to focus on...nor does either outright deny that the other factor (community in Romney case/Individual in Obmaa's case) does not exist. However, the difference is on which should be focused, which should be lauded, which should be in the forefront, and which is felt to be more important or of value.

What will be interesting is, if this theme continues, what those individuals who hover around the middle or who are rather apolitical gravitate to more.

Heres a link to Mitt's speech: LINK

And here's a portion:

You know, thank you, you know something happened, something happened on Friday. President Obama exposed what he really thinks about free people and the American vision, and government, what he really thinks about America itself. He probably wants to understand why hispolicies failed. If you want to understand why his policies have failed, why what he has done has not created jobs, or rising incomes in America, you can look at what he said. And what he said was this, I quote, and he was speaking about businesses like this one, small businesses, big businesses, mid-sized businesses, mining businesses, manufacturing service businesses of all kinds. He said this: “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that, somebody else made that happen.” That somebody else is government in his view. He goes on to describe the people who deserve the credit for building this business. And, of course, he describes people who we care very deeply about, who make a difference in our lives, our schoolteachers, fire fighters, people who build roads. We need those things, we value schoolteachers, fire fighters, people who build roads, you really couldn’t have a business if you didn’t have those things. But, you know, we pay for those things. The taxpayers pay for government. It’s not like government just provides those to all of us and we say oh thank you government for doing those things. In fact we pay for them and we benefit from them and we appreciate the work that they do and the sacrifices that are done by people who work in government. But they did not build this business.

The idea to say that Steve Jobs didn’t build Apple, that Henry Ford didn’t build Ford Motor, that Papa John didn’t build Papa John Pizza, that Ray Kroc didn’t build McDonald’s, that Bill Gates didn’t build Microsoft, you go on the list, that Joe and his colleagues didn’t build this enterprise, to say something like that is not just foolishness, it is insulting to every entrepreneur, every innovator in America and it’s wrong. [Applause] And by the way, the President’s logic doesn’t just extend to the entrepreneurs that start a barber shop or a taxi operation or an oil field service business like this and a gas service business like this, it also extends to everybody in America that wants to lift themself up a little further, that goes back to school to get a degree and see if they can get a little better job, to somebody who wants to get some new skills and get a little higher income, to somebody who have, may have dropped out that decides to get back in school and go for it. People who reach to try and lift themself up. The President would say, well you didn’t do that. You couldn’t have gotten to school without the roads that government built for you. You couldn’t have gone to school without teachers. So you didn’t, you are not responsible for that success. President Obama attacks success and therefore under President Obama we have less success and I will change that. [Applause]I’ve got to be honest, I don’t think anyone could have said what he said who had actually started a business or been in a business. And my own view is that what the President said was both startling and revealing. I find it extraordinary that a philosophy of that nature would be spoken by a President of the United States. It goes to something that I have spoken about from the beginning of the campaign. That this election is, to a great degree, about the soul ofAmerica. Do we believe in an America that is great because of government or do we believe in an America that is great because of free people allowed to pursue their dreams and build our future?

Now much like Obama's entire speech, there's typical political pandering and rhetoric, there's spin, etc. However, also like Obama's speech, there's an inherent message in there that's aimed at both Romney's supporters and those HONESTLY floating around in the middle there. I don't expect most liberals to like Romney's speech or give him any credit for it (To be frank, I'm not a huge fan but it's arguably the best presentation I've ever seen from him in terms of attitude, charisma, content, etc) anymore than I expected most conservatives to have a positive review or give credit to Obama's speech. But I place it here becuase I think that the two different speeches may actually be one of the first times in this entire election season where I've seen both sides putting forward their own positive message for their views regarding the country that are each diametrically different and present two clear alternatives...and I truly hope that we see more of this kind of back and forth then we see of "GIVE US MORE TAX RETURNS" or "YOU'RE A SOCIALIST".
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I have a small residential construction biz and I cannot even begin to list the different materials I need but here is some off the top of my head:

nails
sheetrock
lumber in various forms
steel screws
wood screws
concrete screws
construction paper
three different kinds of tape
cleaning supplies
primer for various surfaces
vinyl siding
plywood
roof shingles
paints and stains for numerous applications
invoices and other typical office supplies
cell phone
computer
vehicle
pressure washer
drills of various kinds
saw of various kinds
extension cords
ladders
etc

If I had to come up with those products myself.....goodness...

I rather despise other biz owners who try to say they did it all themselves because it is unbelievably selfish. Without employees I could not have the jobs done on time. Without the clients I wouldn't have the projects to employ people.

I spend a ton of time behind the scenes so yes I am working more than the people working for me but I still could not do it without them and I pay them on a base scale + performance so they have an honest incentive to work hard knowing I'm not keeping all the money no matter how hard they work.

You hit the nail on the head. lol Can you imagine having to make everything we use or need from scratch all by ourselves? It boggles the mind to think about. Each of those supplies you mentioned are also businesses that also depend on other business/people to help make the products that they sell to you. Take away one resource in the supply chain and the end users suffer all the way down the line.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Then why do so many of them sing a solo of Frank Sinatra's I DID IT MY WAY and actually believe they accomplished everything all by themsleves?

Who do so many on the right refuse to admit that society and its desginated government plays a huge role in making this a great country and contributing to the success of the American people?

Guilt in denial.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Obviously you believe and embrace the fraudulent tactic of intentionally and deliberately perverting what you 'enemies' say and then twisting it even more to create a strawman monster that you can whip up the villagers to attack.

Who do you think you are fooling with such intellectually bankrupt tactics that are so easily spotted?

I have no clue what you are blathering about. Your master and his protege-Fauxhchontas-both try to justify taxing the already overtaxed successful by claiming that their success is due to a government they already heavily fund
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Indivuals and other legal entities are normally in a symbiotic relationship
with Government. The Government was created to address the corroborative
needs of our society, Defense, legislative, and Judicial. (The Executive is a management
function, not an actual task)
This works best when Government leverages resources to expand the economy.
Example: Land given to the railroad companies both built the railroad, and increased the value of the land the railroad companies received.
Through greater commerce, the Government saw tax revenues increase.
Win- Win .
Governments are created by Indivuals to provide a framework for
Indivuals to have an opportunity for prosperity.
The Government exists to provide the infrastructure for growth.

When a Government consumes more resources than absolutely necessary,
It becomes parasitic.
In a parasitic relationship, the Government starts to consume and kill the hosts.

“The power to tax, is the power to destroy.”
which is why I refer to those who constantly argue for more taxes (from other people) "The Parasite Support Team"
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

If someone gets up in front of a group and goes "I couldn't have done it without all your help" do people think the individual is being serious...IE he'd literally been unable to accomplish whatever it is he just did without all the help from specifically every person there....or do you hear it and immedietely understand it's common phrasing with a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration as a means of showing grattitude?

Why is it then that we immedietely seem to think someone stating that they "Did it on their own" is being 100% literalistic and is meaning that they think they literally gained nothing from anyone in some way that played into what they did, rather than using common phrasing to suggest the importance of their personal drive and determination regarding an issue without having anyone actively significant aiding the on that specific thing.

If a QB is talking to a bunch of college players and is saying how "To get into the NFL I had to make it on my own. No one could practice for me, I had to be out on that field. No one could put time in the film room for me, I had to devote that time myself. No one could keep myself in shape during the off season, I had to hit the gym every day. If I had been stupid and drank and drove one night and got busted for a DUI and my draft stock fell, that'd be on me. The only person who was responsable for me getting drafted or not is me...and the only person that will be responsible for you being drafted or not is you." are we assuming the man completely forgot or hates his coaches? His trainers? The equipment men or perhaps the teachers that helped him get into the college or anything or that sort? No, but the message at that moment is one of personal responsability and determination and focus. It's the use of a particular phrase that is not meant to be 100% literalistic aimed at instilling a particular message.

At the same time....

If a QB is sitting there taking in the lockerroom after a game going "I want to thank all you guys, because this win is because of you. We could've never won that game without this group of players here banding together and doing it. We couldn't have won that game without every person on this roster doing thier job. This win is because of all of us" are we to believe that the QB honestly believes that if they had different players that they would not have been able to win? That if one of the guys that sat on the bench all game but one play didn't "do his job" that they wouldn't have won? That if their star WR had taken a few plays off instead of "banding together" that there would've been no chance they could've won the game? Of course not...again, the individual is using common phrasing to put forward a paritcular message highlighting the community aspect more than the individual.

Why are we getting so pissy and literalistic when people use common phrasing filled with some hyperbole in one case but seem to have no issue with it in the other case?
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

By Jov, I think you've got it. :)

But it doesn't take away the fact that these individual business folks built their business realizing they had an "in demand" product.


But that still doesn't answer, IMO, why President Obama has alllowed as how, these folks didn't build their businesses on their own. They did, each individual built a business on their skills and a need/consumer.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I don't buy that. What you're speaking to is American mythology, which is quite different than actual fact. We built forts and communities back then as well as now. The articles of Confederation failed because the federal government was strong enough, and business needed more to succeed. A lot of wealth was built on backs of slaves early on. So, while few to none remove the individual from the equation, because individal vision goes a long way, that vision almost always needs others to reach fulfillment.

Yeah, because you say so. Don't buy it, buy European socialism, because you are unable to do for yourself. Do you realize that many couldn't afford slaves, and did their own work? You really are in fairyland about slavery.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

He was given credit for it, but the initial designs for it were started a couple of decades before he was president.

By whom?
.......
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Why are we getting so pissy and literalistic when people use common phrasing filled with some hyperbole in one case but seem to have no issue with it in the other case?

Because we have very little to go on. It seems to me that President Obama rarely goes off script, but when he does, we see how he really feels. This is one of those occasions.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

If someone gets up in front of a group and goes "I couldn't have done it without all your help" do people think the individual is being serious...IE he'd literally been unable to accomplish whatever it is he just did without all the help from specifically every person there....or do you hear it and immedietely understand it's common phrasing with a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration as a means of showing grattitude?

Why is it then that we immedietely seem to think someone stating that they "Did it on their own" is being 100% literalistic and is meaning that they think they literally gained nothing from anyone in some way that played into what they did, rather than using common phrasing to suggest the importance of their personal drive and determination regarding an issue without having anyone actively significant aiding the on that specific thing.

If a QB is talking to a bunch of college players and is saying how "To get into the NFL I had to make it on my own. No one could practice for me, I had to be out on that field. No one could put time in the film room for me, I had to devote that time myself. No one could keep myself in shape during the off season, I had to hit the gym every day. If I had been stupid and drank and drove one night and got busted for a DUI and my draft stock fell, that'd be on me. The only person who was responsable for me getting drafted or not is me...and the only person that will be responsible for you being drafted or not is you." are we assuming the man completely forgot or hates his coaches? His trainers? The equipment men or perhaps the teachers that helped him get into the college or anything or that sort? No, but the message at that moment is one of personal responsability and determination and focus. It's the use of a particular phrase that is not meant to be 100% literalistic aimed at instilling a particular message.

At the same time....

If a QB is sitting there taking in the lockerroom after a game going "I want to thank all you guys, because this win is because of you. We could've never won that game without this group of players here banding together and doing it. We couldn't have won that game without every person on this roster doing thier job. This win is because of all of us" are we to believe that the QB honestly believes that if they had different players that they would not have been able to win? That if one of the guys that sat on the bench all game but one play didn't "do his job" that they wouldn't have won? That if their star WR had taken a few plays off instead of "banding together" that there would've been no chance they could've won the game? Of course not...again, the individual is using common phrasing to put forward a paritcular message highlighting the community aspect more than the individual.

Why are we getting so pissy and literalistic when people use common phrasing filled with some hyperbole in one case but seem to have no issue with it in the other case?

I think its what the common phrasing is used to justify that's the crux.

Its the "I built this business, and I'll outsource the jobs (or whatever) if I bloody well want to" or "My class already pays most of the income taxes those parasites feed on (or whatever)" that COMES from the "I did it myself" phrasing that rubs some the wrong way.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

If someone gets up in front of a group and goes "I couldn't have done it without all your help" do people think the individual is being serious...IE he'd literally been unable to accomplish whatever it is he just did without all the help from specifically every person there....or do you hear it and immedietely understand it's common phrasing with a bit of hyperbole and exaggeration as a means of showing grattitude?

Why is it then that we immedietely seem to think someone stating that they "Did it on their own" is being 100% literalistic and is meaning that they think they literally gained nothing from anyone in some way that played into what they did, rather than using common phrasing to suggest the importance of their personal drive and determination regarding an issue without having anyone actively significant aiding the on that specific thing.

If a QB is talking to a bunch of college players and is saying how "To get into the NFL I had to make it on my own. No one could practice for me, I had to be out on that field. No one could put time in the film room for me, I had to devote that time myself. No one could keep myself in shape during the off season, I had to hit the gym every day. If I had been stupid and drank and drove one night and got busted for a DUI and my draft stock fell, that'd be on me. The only person who was responsable for me getting drafted or not is me...and the only person that will be responsible for you being drafted or not is you." are we assuming the man completely forgot or hates his coaches? His trainers? The equipment men or perhaps the teachers that helped him get into the college or anything or that sort? No, but the message at that moment is one of personal responsability and determination and focus. It's the use of a particular phrase that is not meant to be 100% literalistic aimed at instilling a particular message.

At the same time....

If a QB is sitting there taking in the lockerroom after a game going "I want to thank all you guys, because this win is because of you. We could've never won that game without this group of players here banding together and doing it. We couldn't have won that game without every person on this roster doing thier job. This win is because of all of us" are we to believe that the QB honestly believes that if they had different players that they would not have been able to win? That if one of the guys that sat on the bench all game but one play didn't "do his job" that they wouldn't have won? That if their star WR had taken a few plays off instead of "banding together" that there would've been no chance they could've won the game? Of course not...again, the individual is using common phrasing to put forward a paritcular message highlighting the community aspect more than the individual.

Why are we getting so pissy and literalistic when people use common phrasing filled with some hyperbole in one case but seem to have no issue with it in the other case?

I agree that, in principle, Obama is not wrong to say that businesses can not survive, much lees thrive, in a vacuum, yet his CONSTANT theme of "the rich" OWE much more to society in taxation is the ONLY reason for this "partnership" nonsense. As Obama talks of "infrasturcture" and the common good, his actual use of spending in the "stimulus" was about 6% "shovel ready" infrastructure and much of the rest simply croney capitalism and "targeted" aid to unions both public and private. How any "jobs" will be created (or saved) by getting 85 billion in extra taxation from "the rich" is never explained.
 
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Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I think its what the common phrasing is used to justify that's the crux.

Its the "I built this business, and I'll outsource the jobs (or whatever) if I bloody well want to" or "My class already pays most of the income taxes those parasites feed on (or whatever)" that COMES from the "I did it myself" phrasing that rubs some the wrong way.

What you overlook is that regardless of outsourced jobs for unskilled tasks....those companies still employ Americans and only outsource the jobs because they can not hire Americans to do them and still make a profit. If they didn't make a profit, you'd have no 1% to bitch about.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

What you overlook is that regardless of outsourced jobs for unskilled tasks....those companies still employ Americans and only outsource the jobs because they can not hire Americans to do them and still make a profit...

oh really?

they will lose any profits if they hire Americans?

got any evidence for that?

sounds like mere propaganda from outsourcers.
 
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Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Because we have very little to go on. It seems to me that President Obama rarely goes off script, but when he does, we see how he really feels. This is one of those occasions.

I was talking about those who were stating such disdain for people who "Did it themselves".

Though it was fun to watch different people read my post and get entirely different thoughts based on their particular outlook as to which argument is more legitimate than the other.
 
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Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

At a campaign stop in Roanoke, VA, Obama takes a shot at entreprenuers and small business owners, suggesting that they are not responsible for the success of their own businesses.

IMO, blatant comments such as these show the disrespect that Obama has for ingenuity, resourcefulness, and hard work. I do not think comments such as these will benefit him among independent and other swing voters.

Also, I find it interesting that no other major news outlet other than Fox News picked up this story. Interesting, but not surprising.

Quoting Obama,




Obama to business owners: 'You didn't build that' | Fox News

Hussein Obama has insulted Americans and this country many times but this time he has topped them all....The man is a gift that keeps on giving for Romney......
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

What the hell does that do? It's not in context.

Why is it when Hussein Obama steps on his crank and makes a dumb statement you lefties always say it was taken out of context? Does Hussein ever sya anything in context?
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

oh really?

they will lose any profits if they hire Americans?

got any evidence for that?

sounds like mere propaganda from outsourcers.

Why do you think companies outsource? Oursourcing (contracting with overseas service providers) is much less expensive than hiring Americans. Reason 1) Because contractors are cheaper than employees in many ways, not excluding the lack of FICA match with a contractor. 2) American regulation jacks up overhead administrative costs. Companies who outsource have already decided to contract the work out to other companies. In choosing which contractor (whether foreign or domestic) they choose which will have the best impact on their bottom line.

Here are 12 reasons companies outsource:

12 Reasons Companies Outsource Operations Overseas | Shrinkage Is Good
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

oh really?

they will lose any profits if they hire Americans?


We're shipping American jobs to China as fast as we can.

If you want those jobs to come back to America, tell your Congressmen to change our environmental and labor laws so they are similar to China's.
 
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