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When did you personally help me with my last tax payment?
When I bought what ever it is that you produced and was shipped over a road.
When did you personally help me with my last tax payment?
When I bought what ever it is that you produced and was shipped over a road.
without the taxes on that product, you could have bought it for less. So yes, you paid the business' taxes on that product, feel better now?
our tax dollars built some roads and bridges. thats true. businesses and successful people pay a disproportionate share of taxes, so under your logic, those who paid the most taxes should own the roads and bridges.
So what did "you" do that made my business successful?
When did you personally help me with my last tax payment?
well thats wrong too. WE did not create Apple and Microsoft. We did not invent the light bulb. We did not invent the Ford assembly line with Henry Ford. We did not teach Whitney Houston how to sing. We did not teach Mark Spitz how to swim or Pete Sampras how to play tennis, or Micheal Jordan how to shoot a basketball.
you and obama are spouting flawed socialsit thinking, Thinking that has proven false everywhere it has been tried.
...Let's take Mark Spitz...where do you think Mark Spitz learned to swim? I'll bet you it was at a publicly paid-for and run pool. No swim pool, no Mark Spitz.
And how about Apple? Steve Jobs went to a public school. And guess how he got to school everyday? If you guessed public roads, you would be correct. And what about his parents? They were instrumental in his life and education. How did they or others in their lives benefit from government assistance? It's all interconnected my friend. None of us are islands unto ourselves. Community counts. Government counts. Private initiative counts. It's ALL important.
WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. This is what you are missing. Obama isn't speaking of the government as some independent entity. He is merely making the point that we are all interconnected through our participation in government and business and that the two entities need one another. If you read all of his speeches you will see that Obama expressly believes in the importance of individual initiative and free enterprise. But what he was expressing in this speech is his growing frustration with those who don't recognize that government and business need one another and it is incorrect for business people to claim that they don't. He NEVER has claimed that government can, does or should do everything and I don't know why you are interpreting his statement to mean so.Too many people get caught up in the faulty logic that government is "doing" something for us. That's false. They don't do anything for us for free. Obamacare: we're paying for it. Roads: we paid for em. Bridges: we paid for em. Teachers: we pay for em. Firemen: we pay for em. Schools, hospitals, ports, airports, universities: WE PAY FOR EM.
SO, you people of the left can curse profits all you want. But understand that because of individuals and companies making profits, that the government taxes, we all have these things. Government didn't provide those things for free. We paid for them. But instead, liberals thank Obama and government for "doing" something. Lol....that's a huge joke. But they curse those who actually provide these things. Liberals don't oppose profits unless they belong to someone else.
Because far too many on the right are less rational and thoughtful than conservatives like Zyphlin. I think where Zyphlin gets it a bit wrong is in arguing that many progressives "operate under this false notion that conservatism = anarchy and people don't want any government institutions or functions what so ever." in a thread where the post just above his is calling for the total abolition of government agencies. There are unfortunately far too many who call themselves libertarian or conservative who are advocating the destruction of the present American/developed world society due to a delusional belief in some kind of Galtian fantasy world.
My experience is that a much larger percentage of those who name themselves "Progressive" have a wider comprehension of the world as it is and the history that has created our present society than those who call themselves "Conservative" or "Libertarian". Not true in all cases but one could say "the exceptions prove the rule" for there are those, wherever they lie on the political spectrum, who don't fit in well those around them. Zyphlin as an example at one place on the line with his frequent disagreements with his less rational brethren.
And you can keep ignoring the second half of his sentence, but it doesn't make it go away -- or do much for your credibility.
My problem with the "You didn't build that" rhetoric, is if external factors made a business successful, why isn't everyone a successful business owner? Why isn't every man/woman sitting on a street corner begging for change, a successful business owner?
*yawn* the full speech.
OK fine, you did build those roads on your own, you're your own fire department, and you went to the moon by yourself. You are a special little snowflake.
lol. 196 likes, 666 dislikes Obama's problem is that he didn't stroke your ego.
Great question. I and whole ton of other people(like yourself) paid taxes this year. Those taxes went to things that you(as an individual) could not have provided or done solely on your own-or at least not in an effective way. Go ahead, let's see you build a bridge or a school by yourself. We COLLECTIVELY pooled our money to support police, roads, military, schools, judicial systems etc etc. It is often most efficient to do things TOGETHER(collectively) than to expect individual businesses or citizens to do them piecemeal on their own. That's the whole idea of government: We support it through taxes so that it can do things with our money that benefit us and that would not otherwise be able to be provided efficiently by the private market.So what did "you" do that made my business successful?
Obama has never said that the private sector aren't Americans. Why would you imply that he, or anyone else on this message board, says otherwise?!!No, his problem is that he doesn't understand the private sector. Like it or not, they're Americans too.
No one here ever said that government is responsible for success, and neither did Obama. You have merely misunderstood the principle which is being discussed. He merely said, and I support him, that collective government is IN PART responsible for providing an environment in which businesses(and individuals) can succeed. He starts his speech by making it clear that he objects to the chorus of conservatives who insinuate that government contributes nothing to the ability of a business to succeed and that nobody does anything "all on his or her own". Everything we do we do in the context of the greater society and, as a result, that greater society impacts us, whether we deny it does or not.I keep asking that, and no-one seems to be able to answer.
If govt is responsible for success, why isn't everyone successful?
he specifically mentioned bridges & roads, but he was talking about all infrastructure and society at large.
we all did it together.
I can take all of these examples you listed and demonstrate to you how they all benefited from social collectivism.
Let's take Mark Spitz...where do you think Mark Spitz learned to swim? I'll bet you it was at a publicly paid-for and run pool. No swim pool, no Mark Spitz.
And how about Apple? Steve Jobs went to a public school. And guess how he got to school everyday? If you guessed public roads, you would be correct. And what about his parents? They were instrumental in his life and education. How did they or others in their lives benefit from government assistance? It's all interconnected my friend. None of us are islands unto ourselves. Community counts. Government counts. Private initiative counts. It's ALL important.
Yep building all the successful businesses we did it together, and of course all the failed businesses we did it together. Or is it just the successful one's?
No one here ever said that government is responsible for success, and neither did Obama. You have merely misunderstood the principle which is being discussed. He merely said, and I support him, that collective government is IN PART responsible for providing an environment in which businesses(and individuals) can succeed. He starts his speech by making it clear that he objects to the chorus of conservatives who insinuate that government contributes nothing to the ability of a business to succeed and that nobody does anything "all on his or her own". Everything we do we do in the context of the greater society and, as a result, that greater society impacts us, whether we deny it does or not.
I think he should have to pay taxes on his earnings just like everyone else in society who can afford to do so. That is all. If some of that money should eventually be used by the government to continue funding public swim pools for the next Mark Spitz, then the system has come full cycle and worked just as it should. See, isn't collectivism great!someones taxes paid for those pools, schools, roads etc. so yes, those people benefitted from someone else's tax money. So what? Does Spitz owe some of his money from endorsements etc to his teachers, the guys who built the pools and roads?? thats just foolish.
all join hands and sing along-------------" I'd like to buy the world a coke......" then "cum by yah, cum by yah" then a big finish with " hare krishna,hare krishna" or maybe 'colorado rocky mountain high" let that defective liberal gene run free---------its DRD4 if you would like to look it up.
Obama has never said that the private sector aren't Americans. Why would you imply that he, or anyone else on this message board, says otherwise?!!
I think he should have to pay taxes on his earnings just like everyone else in society who can afford to do so. That is all. If some of that money should eventually be used by the government to continue funding public swim pools for the next Mark Spitz, then the system has come full cycle and worked just as it should. See, isn't collectivism great!
No one here ever said that government is responsible for success, and neither did Obama. You have merely misunderstood the principle which is being discussed. He merely said, and I support him, that collective government is IN PART responsible for providing an environment in which businesses(and individuals) can succeed. He starts his speech by making it clear that he objects to the chorus of conservatives who insinuate that government contributes nothing to the ability of a business to succeed and that nobody does anything "all on his or her own". Everything we do we do in the context of the greater society and, as a result, that greater society impacts us, whether we deny it does or not.
Great question. I and whole ton of other people(like yourself) paid taxes this year. Those taxes went to things that you(as an individual) could not have provided or done solely on your own-or at least not in an effective way. Go ahead, let's see you build a bridge or a school by yourself. We COLLECTIVELY pooled our money to support police, roads, military, schools, judicial systems etc etc. It is often most efficient to do things TOGETHER(collectively) than to expect individual businesses or citizens to do them piecemeal on their own. That's the whole idea of government: We support it through taxes so that it can do things with our money that benefit us and that would not otherwise be able to be provided efficiently by the private market.
It's really a simple concept when you think about it. I am not taking credit for the success of your business no more than I am saying you should take credit for mine. All I am saying is that I am thankful that the two of us have pooled our money in government, because we both get to reap the benefits from it from the host of programs it funds. As I just said to another poster, WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. Obama merely takes umbrage with the claim by so many business types these days that seem to be dismissing the importance of collective government in creating opportunities for ALL of us.