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Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I hate both of the candidates. Obama is not socialist in any way he is somewhere between centre and centre-right. I'm also a social democrat not a socialist.

Obama leans right? I think this just shows just how off center YOU are. LOL. The line that has Obama to the right of center is a slanted one.

i fail to see anything in that quote that is factually incorrect or even mildly controversial.

another fox news distortion.

If you own a business, you didn't build that. This is factually incorrect in my case. Looking at it in context, it can AT LEAST be said that Obama feels that, if you own a business, the help you received from others played a more powerful role in YOUR success than your own efforts did. While (I guess) this could be considered subjective and not factually provable, there is NO doubt that it is controversial. More, even, than controversial- combined with Obamacare, IMO Obama is bleeding independent, moderate, libertarian, and other swing voters.

Laborer's aren't the only other part of that community aspect though. Customers are. Other businesses you interact with...from advertising to cooking supplies to farmers etc...all play into it.

Unless you're suggesting you raise your own food, smelt your own metal, create your own silverware, forge your own ceramic plates, built your own building, advertise singularly by your own word of mouth, completely taught yourself how to make the food, burn your own compost to power your resturant, etc.

The Individual and their Environment is a symbiotic relationship. How the individual works and how that environment functions can be changed, arguments can be made with how much impact each may have at any given time, but the reality is that if you remove either component to that relationship the other does not survive in the manner that it is at the current point in time.

I think the President's error is his belief that the philosophies and policies that he promotes and supports foster these "symbiotic relationships" which actually do increase opportunity and aid entrepreneurs (such as family, teachers, loans from banks, use of the internet infrastructure).

Actually, his policies and beliefs promote "parasitic relationships" where an organism feeds off of a host without contributing back to the host.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

And here's the flip side of Helix.

There is context becuase it's one sentence in the midst of two entire paragrpahs talking about it. Reading it alone, it looks absolutely damning. Reading it as the whole, it is reasonable to suggest it's a bit of hyperbole in the context of the entire message that is basically suggesting that the individual doesn't accomplish things on his own, that anything people do is in part due to those around them and the system that exists.

Now, that's DEFINITELY still able to be argued about. But it's not unreasonable to suggest that the entire two paragraphs surrounding his comment speaks more to the context and intent behind it then a singular line within the entire thing.

It's unrealistic to package that statement with the whole concept of the rest of his message. It stands out that much.

I tell my kids I don't know what you mean but I do understand what you say. In other words, express yourself better. Become more articulate.

President Obama knew exactly what he was saying. His message is loud and clear.

If that one sentence had been omitted from his speech this thread would have never existed. But no matter how much some would like, you can't discount his words, you can't sugar coat them, or dance around them. Why is this so hard to grasp?


If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.
President Barack Obama
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

i missed the part where you answered the question. the answer is yes, your business uses infrastructure that it didn't build on its own. that was the entire point of the full original quote.
The infrastructure is built to facilitate transportation, mainly for the purpose of commercial interest, however these taxes are paid by the business already. Gasoline taxes during shipping, business taxes upon assets, income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, and more that I cannot even think of right now. Employees pay a much smaller percentage, yet the logic somehow follows that the person who gave said employee a job in the first place should pay even more? This whole logic is flawed, employees do what they are paid to do, and the employers tend to pay the most in taxes. By the way, in lean times employees must be paid, employers don't necessarily get a check, so I am hard pressed to feel sorry for the people who were given employment and no other risk than preserving their jobs.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

This nothing more than a slap in the face to every entrepreneur in this country.

The thing that Obama doesn't account for, is that businesses would have been built even without any help.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

i missed the part where you answered the question. the answer is yes, your business uses infrastructure that it didn't build on its own. that was the entire point of the full original quote.

My business uses infrastructure that wouldnt exist without the private sector.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

This nothing more than a slap in the face to every entrepreneur in this country.

The thing that Obama doesn't account for, is that businesses would have been built even without any help.
You build a business from an unfulfilled need or an idea, you expand by taking on new employees to handle the volume you personally cannot.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

You build a business from an unfulfilled need or an idea, you expand by taking on new employees to handle the volume you personally cannot.

Those emplyees dont work for free.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Those emplyees dont work for free.
Exactly my point. In the loosest interpretation they are partners in the effort, but employees aren't doing it from the goodness of their heart like a neighbor helping with yard work, employees work for their labor value and are entitled to every penny of it both legally and ethically. It's when politicians and people who've never actually had to fight in the business world make statements about the values of each member of a business that I have a problem, they don't have a clue and really just mess up the work environment.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

People who were able to come over here because other people and governments "discoverd" it, manned boats comin gover here, etc etc.

Again, the real goes round and round, chicken and the egg, chicken and the egg.

Now, I agree that there's definitely all kinds of debate and arguments to be had regarding tangental issues to it. I don't think the "individual" or "The community" is inherently a good argument either way because it is so subjective. However, to me that's a talk for another thread. The issue with this one from the start seemed to be outrage over Obama's statement....in that, while I understand it, I don't particularly see it because he's not really saying anything new and is just stating his sides typically subjective view of which of the two things in the cycle is most important. That's nothing scandalous to me...that's the norm.

I am not calling all taxation scandal, but it must have reasonable limits. To assert, as Obama does, that "fairness" is ZERO taxation of the bottom 30%, modest taxation of the next 50% and very heavy taxation of the top 20% is not logical. It allows the bottom 80% to demand ever more from the top 20%.

Democracy, or a democratic republic, must limit the abillity of the majority to demand unlimitted access to the proceeds of the minority. Otherwise we degenerate into a situation of "from each according to their ability (to pay taxes), to each according to their need (for free stuff)". The concept of income redistribution, for nothing more than its own sake, is not allowed by our constitution.

I have no objection to taxation to allow the gov't to provide infrastructure, but to simply give "walking around" money to those that do not produce enough to even support themselves is not "investment" unless coupled with demands that they give something of value in return, like public service.
 
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Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Much of this comes down to who took the risk in starting a new business?
The most risk is the business owner.
They risk their money, time, credit, and labor that their input will result in a profit.
The Bank may have some risk, if they provided the capital.
The Government has very little to lose, if the enterprise does not succeed.
As far as the business environment, it has been the same for over a century, it just costs a lot more now.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

read the sentences before and after the fox selected sentence. an individual business did not build the road or create the internet. those things were created by a lot of people; both in government and in the private sector. the point is that doing things together for society benefits everyone, and every business uses a wide variety of infrastructure that it didn't build.

there's nothing remotely controversial about that, and one has to really stretch to read it the way fox presents it.

Before governments got into the business of building roads and internet lines, businesses still existed.
It's pretty dumb to suggest, that sans government paved roads and government subsidized projects, that commerce would cease to exist.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Before governments got into the business of building roads and internet lines, businesses still existed.
It's pretty dumb to suggest, that sans government paved roads and government subsidized projects, that commerce would cease to exist.

Yep. But it sure would be harder to justify very heavy taxation, the real goal of Obama. ;-)
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Yep. But it sure would be harder to justify very heavy taxation, the real goal of Obama. ;-)

He's just making political swipes against his "enemy" group to garner votes from his favored side.
Just political gamesmanship, clever people duping stupid people into voting for them.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Come on today is Monday.

Tomorrow he will try to clarify what he "meant to say".
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Μολὼν λαβέ;1060694408 said:
I'm rather surprised you don't seem to understand Obama's statement. There is no context to infer, or conclusion to be drawn. His words verbatim stand alone. Obama gives no credit to those who have become successful. He said, "You didn't build that. Someone else made that happen."

I read what he said, and you're wrong. Sorry.

From the link:

“If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” he said. “The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-nobody-achieves-success-alone/#ixzz20pB7y4al

This is exactly what I spoke of. Context. We must read all the words.
 
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Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I read what he said, and you're wrong. Sorry.

From the link:

“If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” he said. “The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”


Read more: Obama to business owners: 'You didn't build that' | Fox News

This is exactly what I spoke of. Context. We must read all the words.

Someone who understands context is everything.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

How can any one be surprised by this attitude especially from someone who's never had a real job in his life or understands how businesses operate.

The infrastructure point is moot because if the successful businesses didn't exist neither would the infrastructure. It is a symbiotic relationship through the taxes generated by the business and from the employees who also pay taxes to support the infrastructure.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

The problem is you do take something from his hard work. His grandfather paid for his education...but he managed to get the oppertunity to have that educaiton due to the work he put into school to get the grades and the extracurriculurs to get accepted to that school. His grandfather managed to continue to pay for that education because he was successfully working at college to be able to pass the classes and learn his trade to allow himself the oppertunity to pay to stay in college. And on and on. That's my point. You choose in that paragraph to focus LARGELY on hyping up and promoting all the help he got while giving little to no credit to his individual efforts. The only mentions you made from it was a negative statement about how he BELIEVES it was all on his own and a statement of saying you "take nothing from his hard work" after you spent the entire post focusing singularly on his help from others.

The real differnece isn't that some recognize this, and others seek to take all the credit. The real differnece is that some wish to propogate and talk up one side and others with to do the other side and few rarely give equal play or credit to both. Because the reality is there's no real subjective way to say which one truly caused the other or allowed for the other or had more impact because you just simply can't test for that.

This won't hurt Obama because people "cannot see how anyone every helped anyone who was successful"...it will hurt Obama because while he focused on propping up the community aspect and severely downplayed the individual side of it, there are others who choose to simply act the opposite way of Obama and promote the individual aspect of the community. The difference is you seem to imply that those who view it the latter are somehow more "wrong" or less "right" than Obama's.

I said clearly that my brother-in-law did work hard, and deserves credit for that. The first sentence I wrote describing him was that he was a smart hard working fellow (sentence three over all). I mention two things that were help, and then end with I take nothing away from him. I tried to be quite balanced. My trouble with him is not in what he did, which was impressive, but how much he seeks to not just down play it, but deny it. He didn't do it ALL on his own.

I believe I mentioned the that the individuality myth would be the problem. So, I think we agree on that part. American mythology likes that myth a lot.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

He's just making political swipes against his "enemy" group to garner votes from his favored side.
Just political gamesmanship, clever people duping stupid people into voting for them.

Private business is his enemy, too.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I said clearly that my brother-in-law did work hard, and deserves credit for that. The first sentence I wrote describing him was that he was a smart hard working fellow (sentence three over all). I mention two things that were help, and then end with I take nothing away from him. I tried to be quite balanced. My trouble with him is not in what he did, which was impressive, but how much he seeks to not just down play it, but deny it. He didn't do it ALL on his own.

I believe I mentioned the that the individuality myth would be the problem. So, I think we agree on that part. American mythology likes that myth a lot.

You're assuming he wouldn't have done it, if not for the support of your grandparents. There's no way you can say that, with any amount of credibility.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

Before governments got into the business of building roads and internet lines, businesses still existed.
It's pretty dumb to suggest, that sans government paved roads and government subsidized projects, that commerce would cease to exist.

without public infrastructure, commerce would exist, but you'd be paying local warlords instead of government, and you'd get a lot less for your money.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

I read what he said, and you're wrong. Sorry.

From the link:

“If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” he said. “The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”


Read more: Obama to business owners: 'You didn't build that' | Fox News

This is exactly what I spoke of. Context. We must read all the words.

yes, I read ALL the words, so, I don't want you to accuse me of taking him out of context.

Let me explain something to you, and our ignorant President. And yes, he's ignorant when it comes to business, how they get started, and what it takes to make one successful.
While it is true that governments build roads, let me remind you that they built roads BECAUSE there were businesses that needed them. They build roads BECAUSE people are going to work. Businesses are not the result of roads and bridges, it's the exact opposite. Roads and bridges are the result of businesses, and the people they employ.

Get it straight. Teachers are the result of a society that values education, and they are PAID to do it. Schools make tons of money, BECAUSE THEY TOO ARE A BUSINESS. It takes a BUSINESS to hire that teacher.

He makes it sound as if the internet wouldn't exist without the government. Bull. It would still exist. It was the greatest invention in modern history, it would have still been developed. It existed BEFORE the government subsidized it's development. Oh, and btw, the government didn't invent the internet did they?

He has no idea what he's talking about. I didn't build my own business? That's news to me, because I don't see anyone else helping pay the bills around this office. I don't see anyone else investing 70 hours per week to increase my business. Liberals will argue, "well, if it weren't for your customers, your business wouldn't exist". True enough, but that doesn't make them responsible for my business. I provide a service and a product that people want and need. If it weren't for my business, they wouldn't get it. Or if it weren't for another business owner, they wouldn't get it. The door swings both ways Mr. President.

The reason I have customers, is because I have something the public wants. I risked a lot to start a business, and if it weren't for countless hours of hard work and smarts, the business would fail. So, don't sit there and tell me "I didn't build that". Of course I did. Ignorant Obama thinks that all a successful business requires is a bunch of people to buy something. Wrong. Or all a successful business requires is a person who had a good teacher in 8th grade. Wrong. Or all a successful business requires is a good road. Wrong. Like I said, he's ignorant. He's never owned a business, he's never been an entreprenuer, he's never experienced what it takes to start and operate a business.

Kick rocks man. Come out here in the real world where your income is earned by working and producing something. The only thing he produces is massive debt, burdensome regulations, higher taxes, federal mandates, and hot air like we've seen here. If his presidency were a business, they would have filed bankruptcy already, because I don't know of many "customers" who would buy his "products". For sale: tax increase. For sale: more regulations. For sale: trillions and trillions of dollars in new debt. Who's buying? Those people you see wasting paychecks on lottery tickets.
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

So NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, & CNN Headline news, all of these are not credible news sources either?
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

yes, I read ALL the words, so, I don't want you to accuse me of taking him out of context.

Let me explain something to you, and our ignorant President. And yes, he's ignorant when it comes to business, how they get started, and what it takes to make one successful.
While it is true that governments build roads, let me remind you that they built roads BECAUSE there were businesses that needed them. They build roads BECAUSE people are going to work. Businesses are not the result of roads and bridges, it's the exact opposite. Roads and bridges are the result of businesses, and the people they employ.

Get it straight. Teachers are the result of a society that values education, and they are PAID to do it. Schools make tons of money, BECAUSE THEY TOO ARE A BUSINESS. It takes a BUSINESS to hire that teacher.

He makes it sound as if the internet wouldn't exist without the government. Bull. It would still exist. It was the greatest invention in modern history, it would have still been developed. It existed BEFORE the government subsidized it's development. Oh, and btw, the government didn't invent the internet did they?

He has no idea what he's talking about. I didn't build my own business? That's news to me, because I don't see anyone else helping pay the bills around this office. I don't see anyone else investing 70 hours per week to increase my business. Liberals will argue, "well, if it weren't for your customers, your business wouldn't exist". True enough, but that doesn't make them responsible for my business. I provide a service and a product that people want and need. If it weren't for my business, they wouldn't get it. Or if it weren't for another business owner, they wouldn't get it. The door swings both ways Mr. President.

The reason I have customers, is because I have something the public wants. I risked a lot to start a business, and if it weren't for countless hours of hard work and smarts, the business would fail. So, don't sit there and tell me "I didn't build that". Of course I did. Ignorant Obama thinks that all a successful business requires is a bunch of people to buy something. Wrong. Or all a successful business requires is a person who had a good teacher in 8th grade. Wrong. Or all a successful business requires is a good road. Wrong. Like I said, he's ignorant. He's never owned a business, he's never been an entreprenuer, he's never experienced what it takes to start and operate a business.

Kick rocks man. Come out here in the real world where your income is earned by working and producing something. The only thing he produces is massive debt, burdensome regulations, higher taxes, federal mandates, and hot air like we've seen here. If his presidency were a business, they would have filed bankruptcy already, because I don't know of many "customers" who would buy his "products". For sale: tax increase. For sale: more regulations. For sale: trillions and trillions of dollars in new debt. Who's buying? Those people you see wasting paychecks on lottery tickets.

If not for the full faith and credit of the United States (which he has managed- the first President in history to have done so- to get that credit rating tarnished by a downgrade) to borrow more money, he would have bankrupted the country. With any set of financials you look at, frankly, the country IS bankrupt.

He wants to take the credit for peoples successes away from them, yet isn't it ironic the comment he made after the successes of Seal Team 6: "I got Bin Laden."
 
Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that."

At a campaign stop in Roanoke, VA, Obama takes a shot at entreprenuers and small business owners, suggesting that they are not responsible for the success of their own businesses.

IMO, blatant comments such as these show the disrespect that Obama has for ingenuity, resourcefulness, and hard work. I do not think comments such as these will benefit him among independent and other swing voters.

Also, I find it interesting that no other major news outlet other than Fox News picked up this story. Interesting, but not surprising.

Quoting Obama,




Obama to business owners: 'You didn't build that' | Fox News


This is the second thread where a far-rightie Obama haters is taking a statement out of context.

And the source is Fox News.
 
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