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Homeowner Jailed for Hosting Bible Study

justabubba said:
but let's say his property was entirely within building code compliance
would you still believe it right to disallow his Bible study groups because of the crowd of cars and people it attracted to the community?
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Maybe. It really depends on the specifics of the situation, which I don't know. How many people were coming over for these bible study sessions three times a week? 10? 50? If it was enough that it was interfering with the ability of people to utilize street parking near their homes, then yes, I'd probably say don't allow it. However, I'd say the same thing regardless of the reason that people were coming over.

There's a difference between buying a home next to a church, which you would know up front is going to have a crowd of people on certain days at certain times, and your neighbor turning his home into a church. That's why zoning laws exist.
 
RDS said:
How you guys manage with 50 sets of laws for 50 states?
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Zoning laws can change just by crossing the street. One side of the street is in city X, but 30 feet away on the other side of the street is city Y. Zoning is tricky and is why homeowners are smart to have the local authority come out, do a survay, and draft the oficial blue-print for the progect; then hier a licinced contractor to build it.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Not for a dickwit who has continued to ignore the court.
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Then why not go to capital punishment?
He probably didn't have enough bathrooms.

The one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama has ignored the courts and the Congress. Let's jail him and leave this bit player with his fines.
 
Cephus said:
For repeated violations for over 5 years? Absolutely. When you're told to stop and you refuse to do so, clearly the fines aren't working and you need to move up to something stronger.
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We have a one term Marxist flexible president who has ignored the courts and the Congress over the last three years. Let's jail him instead.
 
Misterveritis said:
Then why not go to capital punishment?
He probably didn't have enough bathrooms.

The one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama has ignored the courts and the Congress. Let's jail him and leave this bit player with his fines.
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Ok we get it you dont like Obama, but this is the wrong thread for that.
 
Quag said:
Ok we get it you dont like Obama, but this is the wrong thread for that.
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If jail time is good ffor this private citizen because he "ignored" the law then why not for the chief law enforcement officer? Just tell me that.
 
His 67 parking citations attest that local residents lives' were a nightmare. Maybe now he'll get the message.
 
Misterveritis said:
If jail time is good ffor this private citizen because he "ignored" the law then why not for the chief law enforcement officer? Just tell me that.
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One is political the other is municipal code violations. This thread is about municipal code violations by what is appearing more and more to be by a guy who has no respect for the law, his neighbors or even the teachings of the religion he proffeses. I was pretty much ambiguous on this as the article didn't give enough info and I still not sure what the violations were, but other posts have indicated this guy was trying to flount the laws and piss off his neighbors because he just dont give a c****.
 
Quag said:
One is political the other is municipal code violations. This thread is about municipal code violations by what is appearing more and more to be by a guy who has no respect for the law, his neighbors or even the teachings of the religion he proffeses. I was pretty much ambiguous on this as the article didn't give enough info and I still not sure what the violations were, but other posts have indicated this guy was trying to flount the laws and piss off his neighbors because he just dont give a c****.
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So which is the more damaging? Is it the guy who doesn't have the right signs and enough sprinklers or is it the guy who has decided not to enforce laws, who disregards the courts when he chooses and also happens to be the president of the United States? If 60 days in jail is good for the first then 60 months behind bars is just as appropriate for the second.
 
This situation works for the good reverend. He loves to preach and now he will have a "captive" audience. Maybe he will learn to obey the law and not think he is above the law.

Here is his bio.. About Pastor Michael Salman
 
"Zoning" laws against discussing religion. The state vs. religion. This is the stame state crawling with millions of illegals. Perhaps the person jailed should switch to Islam when he gets out that way he will not be harrased by the cowards of the state.
 
Aberration said:
Everyone should ignore retarded codes that violate our rights.
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Brilliant! Where do you live? I'm thinking of starting a pig farm and a potta potty open dumping pit business.
 
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Misterveritis said:
So which is the more damaging? Is it the guy who doesn't have the right signs and enough sprinklers or is it the guy who has decided not to enforce laws, who disregards the courts when he chooses and also happens to be the president of the United States? If 60 days in jail is good for the first then 60 months behind bars is just as appropriate for the second.
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OK, I will respond to your apples to moonrocks comparison post. It was not building code violations, or religion, it was zoning law infractions that landed the "home owner" in jail. Residential means just that, a place to live, and yes, occasional social gatherings are OK. The regular mass meetings (for ANY reason stated in the law), blocking the street and denying the neighbors use of parking, was violating the zoning laws on a regular basis. Pretending that this was NOT a violation of the law, based on "home use rights" or "religious freedom" did not work, and should not work, just as your right to swing your arm freely ends where my nose begins. He was charged with a local law violation, tried in court, found guilty and sentenced to jail.

The Obama immigration law issue is frustrating, as deciding to ignore federal law enforcement is not a presidential power yet, short of impeachemnt, there is nothing that can be done about it. It violates no local ordinance so DC police can not jail him.
 
Misterveritis said:
So which is the more damaging? Is it the guy who doesn't have the right signs and enough sprinklers or is it the guy who has decided not to enforce laws, who disregards the courts when he chooses and also happens to be the president of the United States? If 60 days in jail is good for the first then 60 months behind bars is just as appropriate for the second.
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It's not a question of more damaging, You don't like Obama I get it. The dems said same stuff about Bush, before that republicans said it about Clinton, etc... Obama has done some stuff that I disagree with, the system isn't perfect but you are going off topic.
Do you seriously think this guy should just continue to flout the law because Obama does?
 
rhinefire said:
"Zoning" laws against discussing religion. The state vs. religion. This is the stame state crawling with millions of illegals. Perhaps the person jailed should switch to Islam when he gets out that way he will not be harrased by the cowards of the state.
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Perhaps you should go back and read the thread. The "reverend" and his continuing criminal past have been outted. His duplicity has been documented.

Rather than jump on the "Help, help! We're being repressed" bandwagon you might find it to your benefit to know what you are talking about. At this point you don't. :eek:
 
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Risky Thicket said:
Perhaps you should go back and read the thread. The "reverend" and his continuing criminal past has been outted. His duplicity has been documented.

Rather than jump on the "Help, help! We're being repressed" bandwagon you might find it to your benefit to know what you are talking about. At this point you don't. :eek:
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See the violence inherent in the system!
 
Dezaad said:
Bah! Religious freedom is not being infringed, here. Headline ought to have been "Homeowner Jailed For Code Violations". That said, I agree that the pastor was not guilty of such violations unless he made a public invitation to attend bible study at his home in an advertisement, word of mouth, from the pulpit, or in any kind of flyer or bulletin board.

The city has an interest in making sure buildings open to the public have followed code. The line where a building is being used for a church gathering cannot be left to the church to decide. After all, they could just move into the cathedral, and declare it a private home!

Fox News knows all this, and is just playing its audience to get them worked up. Getting people worked up makes money!! Big surprise there.
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What a joke to write he didn't commitment a violate unless he told anyone.

People are control freaks and many if not most totally hate anyone different from them and therefore what there different behavior criminalized and the person jailed.
 
joko104 said:
What a joke to write he didn't commitment a violate unless he told anyone.

People are control freaks and many if not most totally hate anyone different from them and therefore what there different behavior criminalized and the person jailed.
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Joko, he has a marquee on his front lawn. That IS kinda telling everyone.
 
Jerry said:
Zoning laws can change just by crossing the street. One side of the street is in city X, but 30 feet away on the other side of the street is city Y. Zoning is tricky and is why homeowners are smart to have the local authority come out, do a survay, and draft the oficial blue-print for the progect; then hier a licinced contractor to build it.
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So does the zoning laws override the constitution, for example freedom of religion?
 
Connery said:
This situation works for the good reverend. He loves to preach and now he will have a "captive" audience. Maybe he will learn to obey the law and not think he is above the law.

Here is his bio.. About Pastor Michael Salman
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Your link explains why the government despises him. He politically involves.

You will not find the right to no one parking in front of your house in the Bill of Rights, but there are neighborhood control freak hotheads who go berserk if anyone does claiming they also own the street. Petty little people looking for something to rage about.
 
joko104 said:
What a joke to write he didn't commitment a violate unless he told anyone.

People are control freaks and many if not most totally hate anyone different from them and therefore what there different behavior criminalized and the person jailed.
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Geez, maybe it's me, I do feel kind of different from a "reverend" who committed a drive-by shooting, firing 5 shots into an occupied house, was sentenced to 6 years in prison, has formally listed his home as a church with the Arizona Corporation Commission, has been involved in numerous court appearances after his felony arrest including harassment, all while claiming the church he listed as non-profit religious organization which is the same address as his home, is not a church.
 
Middle class urban and suburban white people tend to the most control freak, whiny and petty people.

To them the number #1 (non-existent) human right is "property values" and they can go ape s...t crazy if someone parks in front of their house without their permission, they don't like how a neighbor's yard looks or kid acts, or OMG a neighbor's leave blows into their yard.

Jailing that person for 6 months is so obscene and of such totalitarian control government it shows the American revolution for personal freedom is long since dead. Sadly, because people are so intensely hatedul of anyone different from them this is what people want. When you don't have a life, live your life hating and whining about out people.

But you are correct, if he held Muslim servives the media would be raging that the Phoenix city government is a bunch of right wing religious bigots. Being Christian is the being the modern n....ger to many people and we all know that N...gers have no rights and must be restrained and controlled, and certainly not allowed to congregate. Certainly no one wants a bunch of n...gers parked in front of THEIR house.
 
RDS said:
So does the zoning laws override the constitution, for example freedom of religion?
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If the zoning law says "You can't practice religion in any manner within your home or a residential area" that's a violation.

If the zoning law says, "You can't run a church out of a residence" that isn't a violation.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Geez, maybe it's me, I do feel kind of different from a "reverend" who committed a drive-by shooting, firing 5 shots into an occupied house, was sentenced to 6 years in prison, has formally listed his home as a church with the Arizona Corporation Commission, has been involved in numerous court appearances after his felony arrest including harassment, all while claiming the church he listed as non-profit religious organization which is the same address as his home, is not a church.
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So REALLY it is the local government getting the bad guy and finding a way to do it. Oh how nice.
 
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