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California Senate vote keeps bullet train alive(edited)

Re: California bullet train still a go

justabubba said:
all one has to do to project the resulting development is to look at how development has followed the construction of other mass transit infrastructure in the USA and elsewhere
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Then you have massive, ugly sprawl along the transit lines. Not a desirable outcome.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

iguanaman said:
Yes built here but by foreign companies who have the technology since we took a pass on trains a long time ago.
Highspeed trains will require a new track to handle the speed, grade crossings will be eliminated too. Like this 200MPH French TGV line completed in 2007.
Notice the track is electrified and France gets 80% of their power from nuclear sources. Are they are so far ahead of us in efficiency that you want to just give up?
train300,0.jpg
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What screams out at me from your post is that the French are getting most of the power to electrify their rail system from nuclear energy. How smart is that? I know you agree that's not very smart. Shakes head at the bullet train people. Train to nowhere.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

clownboy said:
Then you have massive, ugly sprawl along the transit lines. Not a desirable outcome.
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not if you have smart building codes - and enforce them
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Albert Di Salvo said:
What screams out at me from your post is that the French are getting most of the power to electrify their rail system from nuclear energy. How smart is that? I know you agree that's not very smart. Shakes head at the bullet train people. Train to nowhere.
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it's quite smart
another french idea which we should adopt
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

justabubba said:
it's quite smart
another french idea which we should adopt
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Three Mile Island...Chernobyl...Fukushima. The environmental movement will not allow any more nuclear power plants to be built in California. The nuke plants already in California are being shut down. So there is no chance nuclear power will be used to electrify the rails for the train to no where. So where will the power come from? New power plants of any sort are going to be built in this state. None. Where will the power come from?
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Albert Di Salvo said:
Three Mile Island...Chernobyl...Fukushima. The environmental movement will not allow any more nuclear power plants to be built in California. The nuke plants already in California are being shut down. So there is no chance nuclear power will be used to electrify the rails for the train to no where. So where will the power come from? New power plants of any sort are going to be built in this state. None. Where will the power come from?
Click to expand...


my community is now the country's nuclear design center
it's a local growth industry
safe designs are emerging as the template for the future
and opposition to nuclear is on the wane (here, not in japan)
you do know that all the power consumed in california does not have to originate within my native state don't you
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

justabubba said:
not if you have smart building codes - and enforce them
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It really doesn't work like that. The cities want to expand in "Metro" districts, and this allows them to sprawl on out. Developers and moneymen are all for this. City and county councils climb right aboard. Building codes have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Perhaps you're thinking of zoning? But since the area has already been emminent domained to allow for the train, it's already zoned for development (they want people to ride and live near the train).

The whole thing is stupid insane. Show me one rail commuter system that is making money, or just breaking even.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

justabubba said:
my community is now the country's nuclear design center
it's a local growth industry
safe designs are emerging as the template for the future
and opposition to nuclear is on the wane (here, not in japan)
you do know that all the power consumed in california does not have to originate within my native state don't you
Click to expand...

Actually, no, it's not waning. Still quite a lot of opposition to nuclear. We know the problems, have heard the safe design speeches before and know no matter how you design the thing you still have no answer for hot releases and waste.

As for the power in California - that you don't self-generate your own supply is what has cost you tech business after tech business. That's why they're all up here in Oregon now.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

clownboy said:
It really doesn't work like that. The cities want to expand in "Metro" districts, and this allows them to sprawl on out. Developers and moneymen are all for this. City and county councils climb right aboard. Building codes have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Perhaps you're thinking of zoning? But since the area has already been emminent domained to allow for the train, it's already zoned for development (they want people to ride and live near the train).

The whole thing is stupid insane. Show me one rail commuter system that is making money, or just breaking even.
Click to expand...
how about two?
There are two places in the world where rail’s success is not accompanied by excess costs and is felt throughout the urban area: Tokyo (Tokyo-Yokohama) and Osaka (Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto).

Violating the old transit myth that there are no profitable systems, data from the Union of International Public Transport (the international equivalent of the American Public Transportation Association) indicate both systems earn annual profits of approximately 30 percent over operating and capital expense.
Click to expand...
Do any major world transportation systems operate at a profit? - subway profit publictransportation | Ask MetaFilter
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Arrgh - in the US, you know where we're building this one.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

clownboy said:
Arrgh - in the US, you know where we're building this one.
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here is what you asked?
Show me one rail commuter system that is making money, or just breaking even.
Click to expand...
i answered the question you asked; not the one you would have preferred to have asked


apologies to rumsfeld for misappropriating his quote [check that; screw that sorry ass chickenhawk bastard]
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Unless the run it to San Diego I don't want it. This LA San Fran thing is BS.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

justabubba said:
There are two places in the world where rail’s success is not accompanied by excess costs and is felt throughout the urban area: Tokyo (Tokyo-Yokohama) and Osaka (Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto).
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2 whole examples. And in Japan too, where population density is in the extreme and you don't have to be worried about being mugged while railing it.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

Matt Foley said:
Oh so Americans don't know nothin' about no 'lectricity or them train tracks cause we hadn't been res'chin' it.
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On the contrary. I know we COULD do it, if we had the will. That is what is so frustratng, the lack of will. It is not like the America I knew as a child.
It is like the Europeans learned from us and we just plumb forgot.
 
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Re: California bullet train still a go

justabubba said:
my community is now the country's nuclear design center
Click to expand...

Would you please name your community?

it's a local growth industry
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I like the idea of growth, but not the idea of poison or nuclear accidents along earthquake fault lines or in active seismic zones.

safe designs are emerging as the template for the future
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Environmental extremists won't allow implementation of safe designs. New nuclear power development in California will be tied up in litigation under the California Environmental Quality Act.

and opposition to nuclear is on the wane (here, not in japan)
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California is controlled by a political coalition which includes radical environmentalists who are capable of shutting down any power development.

you do know that all the power consumed in california does not have to originate within my native state don't you
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Yes I know. That's one of the reasons power is so expensive in California. Since radical environmentalists will prevent development of new energy sources within California, a greater percentage of California's power will be imported from other states and from Mexico.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

clownboy said:
Show me one rail commuter system that is making money, or just breaking even.
Click to expand...

Why? The California HSR system isn't a commuter rail system. Commuter rail is 20-50 miles long and radiates from downtown to the suburbs. It is just as profitable as the highways that parallel it.

Now...a high speed rail system in the United States that makes a profit, sure. Out of the one we have, one is profitable...Acela.

From one of their monthly performance reports (C-1):

For September 2010 YTD:
Revenue: $449.9M
Expenses: $349.3M
Profit: $100.6M

You'll find the same thing in Spain, Germany, Taiwan, Japan...
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

TitusAndronicus said:
Why? The California HSR system isn't a commuter rail system. Commuter rail is 20-50 miles long and radiates from downtown to the suburbs. It is just as profitable as the highways that parallel it.

Now...a high speed rail system in the United States that makes a profit, sure. Out of the one we have, one is profitable...Acela.

From one of their monthly performance reports (C-1):

For September 2010 YTD:
Revenue: $449.9M
Expenses: $349.3M
Profit: $100.6M

You'll find the same thing in Spain, Germany, Taiwan, Japan...
Click to expand...

Thank you for answering the question. Now, what's the anticipated ridership for this California implementation? Are they anticipating breaking even, making a profit or operating at a loss?

Finally, what is the need?
 
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Re: California bullet train still a go

TitusAndronicus said:
Why? The California HSR system isn't a commuter rail system. Commuter rail is 20-50 miles long and radiates from downtown to the suburbs. It is just as profitable as the highways that parallel it.

Now...a high speed rail system in the United States that makes a profit, sure. Out of the one we have, one is profitable...Acela.

From one of their monthly performance reports (C-1):

For September 2010 YTD:
Revenue: $449.9M
Expenses: $349.3M
Profit: $100.6M

You'll find the same thing in Spain, Germany, Taiwan, Japan...
Click to expand...

How is High Speed Rail doing in China?
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

TitusAndronicus said:
Why? The California HSR system isn't a commuter rail system. Commuter rail is 20-50 miles long and radiates from downtown to the suburbs. It is just as profitable as the highways that parallel it.

Now...a high speed rail system in the United States that makes a profit, sure. Out of the one we have, one is profitable...Acela.

From one of their monthly performance reports (C-1):

For September 2010 YTD:
Revenue: $449.9M
Expenses: $349.3M
Profit: $100.6M

You'll find the same thing in Spain, Germany, Taiwan, Japan...
Click to expand...

AMTRAK/ACELA as a money MAKER? Are you kiddng me?

Taxes picking up tab for Amtrak losses | Marketplace.org

PostPartisan - High-speed rail will take taxpayers for a ride

Amtrak: 40 Years, $40 Billion - Tom Schatz - National Review Online

Bombardier Urges Upgrades as Tracks Slow Amtrak Acela - Businessweek

Trophy train project, legacy for lawmakers | CalWatchDog

http://www.examiner.com/article/wisconsin-high-speed-rail-fiasco-costs-us-taxpayers-14-6-million
 
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Re: California bullet train still a go

jamesrage said:
California is billions of dollars in debt and they want to build a segment that costs 8 billion. Do these clowns in California realize that they are in debt?
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it's not 8 billion but 68 billion. It's a sudden rush do you know why?

727. Rush to frame a case on 7/9 (7/9/2012)

On 7/4, I wrote about the mysterious turnaround of Chief Justice Roberts and promised to tell "why he did so" in next(today's) post. Now I'm afraid I can't do so because next day of 7/4 there was a swift response from the Feds.

‘Internet doomsday’ due on Monday, claims FBI

The ‘DNS Changer’ virus will cause more than 350,000 computers to lose web access on July 9, the FBI has claimed.


By Matt Warman,

05 Jul 2012

DNS Changer was a virus run by an Estonian crime ring until authorities and the American FBI broke it up in November. At its peak it infected more than 500,000 PCs and Macs.

Now the Bureau wants to turn off the server because it is costing tens of thousands of dollars to operate each month. It has announced that on July 9 it will pull the plug, potentially leaving the 350,000 computers that are still infected, 20,000 of which are in the UK and 85,000 in America, without access to the web.

‘Internet doomsday’ due on Monday, claims FBI - Telegraph
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I used to post new articles in a cycle of "5 days, 9 days ...." interval. 7/9 is the day I post a new article. Due to the accuracy of my analysis, The Feds seems decided not to let people know the coming plot by blogging my access to the internet. What alarms me is they'll frame a new drug case.


California high-speed rail gets green light

By JUDY LIN | Associated Press 7/7/2012


SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California lawmakers gave the green light to start building the nation's first dedicated high-speed rail line, a multibillion dollar project that will eventually link Los Angeles and San Francisco.

...

The final cost of the completed project from Los Angeles to San Francisco is projected to be $68 billion.

Before Friday's vote, at least half a dozen Democrats in the 40-member Senate remained opposed, skeptical or uncommitted. Some were concerned about how the vote would impact their political futures, while others were wary about financing and management of the massive project.

One dissenter, Sen. Joe Simitian, D-Palo Alto, said public support had waned for the project, and there were too many questions about financing to complete it.

"Is there additional commitment of federal funds? There is not. Is there additional commitment of private funding? There is not. Is there a dedicated funding source that we can look to in the coming years? There is not," Simitian said.

California high-speed rail gets green light - Yahoo! News
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What the news doesn't mention is that the technique will be from China. In a time when money is so tight in state budget, what is it for to waste on such an uncertain project that mainly benefits China? I view it as a payment of secret deal between the secret police of China and US to exchange for a framed drug case.

The two events took place just within two days after 7/4. They were done in a rush and planned to frame a case on 7/9.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

katsung47 said:
it's not 8 billion but 68 billion. It's a sudden rush do you know why?

727. Rush to frame a case on 7/9 (7/9/2012)

On 7/4, I wrote about the mysterious turnaround of Chief Justice Roberts and promised to tell "why he did so" in next(today's) post. Now I'm afraid I can't do so because next day of 7/4 there was a swift response from the Feds.



I used to post new articles in a cycle of "5 days, 9 days ...." interval. 7/9 is the day I post a new article. Due to the accuracy of my analysis, The Feds seems decided not to let people know the coming plot by blogging my access to the internet. What alarms me is they'll frame a new drug case.




What the news doesn't mention is that the technique will be from China. In a time when money is so tight in state budget, what is it for to waste on such an uncertain project that mainly benefits China? I view it as a payment of secret deal between the secret police of China and US to exchange for a framed drug case.

The two events took place just within two days after 7/4. They were done in a rush and planned to frame a case on 7/9.
Click to expand...

gotta admit i had a craving for tinfoil as i read that post
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

ttwtt78640 said:
AMTRAK/ACELA as a money MAKER? Are you kiddng me?

Taxes picking up tab for Amtrak losses | Marketplace.org

PostPartisan - High-speed rail will take taxpayers for a ride

Amtrak: 40 Years, $40 Billion - Tom Schatz - National Review Online

Bombardier Urges Upgrades as Tracks Slow Amtrak Acela - Businessweek
Click to expand...

Within the very quote you cite, I posted the numbers and the performance report. What more could you possibly want? It's there in black and white. Acela is the profitable wing of Amtrak.
 
Re: California bullet train still a go

clownboy said:
Thank you for answering the question. Now, what's the anticipated ridership for this California implementation? Are they anticipating breaking even, making a profit or operating at a loss?

Finally, what is the need?
Click to expand...

The ridership and revenue data is all reported on their website. They anticipate an operational profit.

The need is 23M more people in California by 2050.
 
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