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Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kal'Stang said:
And yet you still haven't proven that this case falls under the 60% that you claim this person belongs under. Same applies to his accomplices. How do you know that this wasn't just because the judge is trying to garner some votes? Indeed...do you even know if the judge is white or black or hispanic or chinese? Also how does Florida's court system work in regards to sentencing? Is it the judges job? Or is it a juries job?

You seem to jump to conclusions without even once trying to find any of the facts.

Just because statistics show that you have a 60% chance of being correct doesn't mean that you cannot fall within the 40% of being wrong.
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It doesn't matter if the judge was trying to garner some votes, or if the judge was white/black/Hispanic/Chinese. If he thinks he can SUCCEED in garnering votes by locking up a black guy for a ridiculous amount of time, then that just proves that our system is racist. And the judge's ethnicity has nothing to do with whether or not he's racially biased against black defendants in his courtroom. Same thing for a jury.

But more importantly, I think you miss the whole point that our entire justice system as a whole is racially biased...this case is merely an example of that problem. Whenever people try to pick at the specifics of individual examples of perceived racial injustice (e.g. the people who defend George Zimmerman) rather than discussing the larger issue , I think it's because they subconsciously identify more with the people being CALLED racist than they do with the victims of racism. And that subconscious identification is, itself, racist.
 
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re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Fruityfact said:
I do realize this is off topic, but it was in the article..
"In one recent, highly controversial Florida sentencing, Marissa Alexander, an African-American woman in Jacksonville with no previous criminal record, was sentenced to 20 years for firing a pistol twice into the air while trying to ward off an attack by her abusive husband. Denied the protection of Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law, the 31-year-old mother of three was convicted of aggravated assault, a felony, and given the mandatory sentence for anyone who fires a gun in commission of the felony."

There is something wrong with Florida's judicial system
Can someone give the stats on how much average jail time one would get if they were to shoot someone(non-fatally)?
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The 20 years for firing a warning shot is a mandatory sentence under Florida law. The statute does not allow sentencing to a shorter period of time.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kal'Stang said:
And yet you still haven't proven that this case falls under the 60% that you claim this person belongs under. Same applies to his accomplices. How do you know that this wasn't just because the judge is trying to garner some votes? Indeed...do you even know if the judge is white or black or hispanic or chinese? Also how does Florida's court system work in regards to sentencing? Is it the judges job? Or is it a juries job?

You seem to jump to conclusions without even once trying to find any of the facts.

Just because statistics show that you have a 60% chance of being correct doesn't mean that you cannot fall within the 40% of being wrong.
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The case was before a FEDERAL judge, meaning FEDERAL law.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

HonestJoe said:
While I agree the sentence is too long, I object to the references to it being a first offence. He was convicted on offences relating to seven separate incidents so by definition, only one of those (if that) can be a first offence.
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Actually not. There has to be a prior conviction for the others to subsequent convictions.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

First off...were the other individuals in question also minority? Why is this a 'racist' thing again? His 'partners' in crime all ratted him out as shooting a firearm at the scene of the crime, both at a citizen and a dog. Multiple robberies, illegal possession of and USE with intent to commit grievous bodily harm...so...other than the fact that you are once again looking for a poor innocent victim to pin the cry of racism and injustice upon...what exactly is your problem with this?

I have to tell you...THIS is why black folk are so ****ed up. Me...as a white guy...if a white guy was in this situation I would have been upset they didnt drop 200 on him. **** him for being a moron, a menace to society, and at least for having ****ty taste in friends. Oh...but you want him BACK in and amongst your community...polluting the **** out of it? Listen...drive around black inner city neighborhoods...check out the impact of that kind of mentality...and then go ahead and keep punching yourself in the balls. You love it.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

lpast said:
Ive lived in florida going on 8 yrs. Ive never seen such wide discrepancies in sentencing...is it racial, Im sure some is...but ive seen lots of white guys get hammered also. Heres what I "THINK" contributes to the disparity.

Judges are elected here in fla...they have to keep their district electorate happy...so if their district is bloodthirsty I believe the judge will be more inclined to be bloodthirsty to get re elected. I think the disparities differ county to county. I used to want elected judges to get the appointed for life slugs out...then I came here and saw the downside of electing them...I guess you could say at least a majority elects the elected slugs as opposed to one guy appt a slug...cant win can we :)
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EGADS, won't anyone actually READ the article???

He was sentenced in FEDERAL COURT. The trial was IN FEDERAL COURT.

FEDERAL JUDGES ARE NOT ELECTED. Let me explain this... FEDERAL JUDGES ARE APPOINTED. NO FEDERAL JUDGES ARE ELECTED. All your comments about elected judges has exactly no relevance to this case whatsoever. In fact, since this was AN APPOINTED FEDERAL JUDGE IN A FEDERAL COURT, this case seems to DISPROVE your theory of how awful elected judges are.

Nor do people as they shout racism! racism! racism! really care about learning law or facts of the case. They just want to shout 'racists! racism!" because they fixate on the race of people, which are the people I define as the TRUE racists and real racism.

Was this armed robberies of banks? What is the sentencing guidelines for the offenses as set by Congress - and do those apply to these cases? What criminal history does he have, if any? What sentences at trial does that appointed federal judge usually give for that offense?

When someone is a racist fixating on people's race, they generally don't care about facts or law. They just look for reasons to shout "racism! racists!" That's why those words don't mean much to anyone anymore.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

VanceMack said:
Why is this a 'racist' thing again?
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I am astounded at the number of people who can seriously ask a question like this, and then say things like the following, without the slightest hint of irony or self-awareness:

I have to tell you...THIS is why black folk are so ****ed up.
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Listen...drive around black inner city neighborhoods...check out the impact of that kind of mentality
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Yes, I can't IMAGINE why anyone would think there is any racist element in play here. :roll:
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

danarhea said:
I think 162 years was excessive, but at the same time, let's not forget that he participated not in one armed robbery, but in MANY armed robberies. And if you are armed while robbing, an assumption must be made that you intend to kill someone if you don't get what you want. I am not spilling any tears over this punk.
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Dan he hurt no one, 162 yrs he has no prior record and all the ones that participated and snitched went free...errrr something stinks dude seriously. Im no mamby pamby with criminals...but taking all considerations that sentence is horrifically excessive and is a life sentence.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Lokiate said:
Yeah, even I think that's excessive. Armed robbery, and discharge of a firearm? 25-30 is probably the max he should get. For a first offense, maybe 10-15.
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Scratch that. After reading other articles, his string of armed robberies lasted for two months, he threatened to kill someone by "brandishing his weapon", and also exchanged fire with someone who was defending themselves with a concealed weapon. Toss his ass away for good, first offense or not.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

PeteEU said:
And again my point stands as the 60% is on average.. which means some get less some get much more.. and in this case... That his accomplices were black does not mean they were not given harsher sentences despite "giving up" their compatriot relative to what a white defendant would have gotten.

However as I stated, it is an average, and considering that this guy got far above the average by several 100%, then the over all sentence is still in the "ball park" average I bet.

Point is.. he got a harsher sentence because he was black and poor.. pure and simple..
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No he got a harsher sentence because he thought he could beat the system and went to trial and wasted tax payer money rather than accepting the same type of plea. This idiot was convicted of 7 felony counts of armed robbery each of which carried up to 30 years in prison. This wasnt just his first offense. It was his first, second, third, fourth ect. This guy didnt just go rob a store. He went out multiple times.

Here are the guidelines for Florida.

Overview of Florida's Sentencing Policies - Florida's Criminal Punishment Code: A Comparative Assessment (2000-2001)

Nowhere does it state anything to do with race or money. Perhaps if he had more money he would have had a better attorney would have advised him that since the state had 6 other witnesses putting him there he was not going to beat the charge and he shouldn't be a further burden on society. Instead of owning up and accepting a plea like the others he wanted to fight it and got what he deserved. **** this guy. Race didnt have anything to do with it. Show me one example where a white guy had 6 accomplices tesitfy against him while he plead not guilty of a series of robberies and didnt get what equated to life.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kandahar said:
I am astounded at the number of people who can seriously ask a question like this, and then say things like the following, without the slightest hint of irony or self-awareness:
Yes, I can't IMAGINE why anyone would think there is any racist element in play here. :roll:
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So lets ask again...were his six accomplices also black? Did his six accomplices rat him out for firing a weapon at people during the commission of multiple robberies? And with your continued insistence on defending the poor downtrodden...ummm...well...MULTIPLE OFFENDER that by his buddies testimony had no problem carrying a weapon and discharging it in the commission of a crime you want to play the race card and blame 'the racist system'. Good lord...you stink with pathetic fail. I hope they let him out early and yours is the first house he visits.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

muciti said:
No he got a harsher sentence because he thought he could beat the system and went to trial and wasted tax payer money rather than accepting the same type of plea.
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The fact that you regard exercising one's constitutional right to a fair trial and one's right to avoid self-incrimination as "beating the system" and "wasting taxpayer money" is quite sad.

Perhaps if he had more money he would have had a better attorney would have advised him that since the state had 6 other witnesses putting him there he was not going to beat the charge and he shouldn't be a further burden on society.
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Yeah, **** him for being poor. I'm sure there's no correlation at all between race and poverty.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

This is the son of a judge who waved his gun around in a crowded Casino.

Anthony Carleo, who admitted today he was the so-called "biker bandit" who robbed the Bellagio on the Las Vegas Strip of some $1.5 million in chips and sped away into the night on a motorcycle, will be heading off to state prison in a few months.

Carleo, whose armed robbery of the casino craps pit area Dec. 14 brought international headlines, stood meekly this morning before District Judge Michelle Leavitt.
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After the sentencing, Assistant District Attorney Chris Owens told reporters he thought Carleo, 29, would potentially go to prison for a minimum of three years, with a maximum penalty of 36 years for the Bellagio robbery. He is being held in the Clark County Detention Center.
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re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

VanceMack said:
So lets ask again...were his six accomplices also black?
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I don't know. Not very relevant.

Did his six accomplices rat him out for firing a weapon at people during the commission of multiple robberies? And with your continued insistence on defending the poor downtrodden...ummm...well...MULTIPLE OFFENDER that by his buddies testimony had no problem carrying a weapon and discharging it in the commission of a crime
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He didn't shoot anyone. Even murderers often don't get sentences this harsh.

you want to play the race card and blame 'the racist system'. Good lord...you stink with pathetic fail.
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Your claims that race has nothing to do with it might be taken more seriously if you weren't simultaneously bitching about how "black folks are so ****ed up." The fact that an overt racist like yourself is so quick to throw the book at him just solidifies my view that race is EXACTLY what this is about.
 
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re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kandahar said:
I don't know. Not very relevant.
He didn't shoot anyone. Even murderers often don't get sentences this harsh.
Your claims that race has nothing to do with it might be taken more seriously if you weren't simultaneously bitching about how "black folks are so ****ed up." The fact that an overt racist like yourself is so quick to throw the book at him just solidifies my view that race is EXACTLY what this is about.
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If there is ANY justice in the Karmic universe, this guy or someone else that your ass and heart bleeds over will get out early and pay you or someone you love a visit. Just to...you know...thank you.

Oh no...its NOT relevant that his 6 accomplices might also have been black and DIDNT get the larger sentence. Its only racist that HE DID get the sentence. It MUST be racism-NOT what he did.

Yeah...your values are ****ed...and that is precisely why the black community is so ****ed up. You will hold marches, rallies, and are STILL on about poor Trayvon martin...meanwhile since Trayvon Martin was shot in what may or may not have been a justified shooting, 8 black people a day (thats 1,056 to date for those of you keeping score) die from black on black crimes...and you are ****ing wetting yourself over a repeat offending scumbag. Pathetic.
 
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re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kandahar said:
The fact that you regard exercising one's constitutional right to a fair trial and one's right to avoid self-incrimination as "beating the system" and "wasting taxpayer money" is quite sad.
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Oh did I miss the part where he got a fair trial? Was he sentenced outside the established sentencing guidelines for his conviction?

Yeah, **** him for being poor. I'm sure there's no correlation at all between race and poverty.
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No **** him for being a worthless peice of **** who went on a string of robberies and threatened the lives of innocent people.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kandahar said:
I don't know. Not very relevant.
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Since you are playing the race card it is very relevant.

He didn't shoot anyone. Even murderers often don't get sentences this harsh.
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Go commit a string of murders, plead not guilty, lose the trial and see if you get anything less than life. This is a rediculous statement.

Your claims that race has nothing to do with it might be taken more seriously if you weren't simultaneously bitching about how "black folks are so ****ed up." The fact that an overt racist like yourself is so quick to throw the book at him just solidifies my view that race is EXACTLY what this is about.
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Blaming race and expecting this man not to face the penalty for his crimes just because he is black makes you a racist buddy.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

muciti said:
Oh did I miss the part where he got a fair trial? Was he sentenced outside the established sentencing guidelines for his conviction?
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You said he wasted taxpayer money and tried to "beat the system" because he didn't have the courtesy to plead guilty. That is ANTITHETICAL to the American system of justice, where we have a constitutional right to a fair trial and to avoid self-incrimination. In case you didn't figure it out, that means no one has to plead guilty to anything.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kandahar said:
You said he wasted taxpayer money and tried to "beat the system" because he didn't have the courtesy to plead guilty. That is ANTITHETICAL to the American system of justice, where we have a constitutional right to a fair trial and to avoid self-incrimination. In case you didn't figure it out, that means no one has to plead guilty to anything.
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I didnt say he had to plead guilty. He had a choice. Plead guilty and accept a plea, or go to trial and face longer sentences. He made his choice.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

VanceMack said:
If there is ANY justice in the Karmic universe, this guy or someone else that your ass and heart bleeds over will get out early and pay you or someone you love a visit. Just to...you know...thank you.
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I pity you. You seem like a very miserable person.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kandahar said:
I pity you. You seem like a very miserable person.
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I **** on your pity and hope the criminals your ass bleeds over make sure yours and people like you are the first homes they stop at and show their appreciation to you. I also laugh at your pathetic argument of racism. So...dont we both feel all awesome and stuff.
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Welp, I stopped by DP last week after being gone for a couple months to discuss the health care ruling, got distracted by other threads, and now I'm ready to leave the forum again. That didn't take long.

Later everyone. Talk to y'all the next time I feel like returning to DP. :2wave:
 
re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kandahar said:
It doesn't matter if the judge was trying to garner some votes, or if the judge was white/black/Hispanic/Chinese. If he thinks he can SUCCEED in garnering votes by locking up a black guy for a ridiculous amount of time, then that just proves that our system is racist. And the judge's ethnicity has nothing to do with whether or not he's racially biased against black defendants in his courtroom. Same thing for a jury.
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Umm garnering votes doesn't have to do with race ya know. He very well could have done the same thing with someone of a different race. Including white. The fact that you guys continue to pull the racist card with no evidence that this WAS racially motivated just shows what is wrong with this country. Too many racists claiming that others are racist while ignoring their own racism....or is it just plain stupidity? :shrug: I haven't figured that part out yet.

Kandahar said:
But more importantly, I think you miss the whole point that our entire justice system as a whole is racially biased...this case is merely an example of that problem. Whenever people try to pick at the specifics of individual examples of perceived racial injustice (e.g. the people who defend George Zimmerman) rather than discussing the larger issue , I think it's because they subconsciously identify more with the people being CALLED racist than they do with the victims of racism. And that subconscious identification is, itself, racist.
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The system is not racially biased. The people that enforce it might be racially biased. But the system is inherently non-biased.

And as far as Z goes...seriously? You brought him into this? That case has NOTHING to do with race period. Z was a volunteer youth mentor for blacks for gods sake. THAT is documented and is not based on hearsay. Unlike his ex's account and his former co-workers account (who also agreed that the "jokes" Z said were not racially motivated btw)

You just made a perfect example of what I stated above. Thank you.

I'm quite willing to agree that lots of judges and leo's seem to target blacks more than others and that it is racially motivated, so long as it is talked about in general and people don't try to use individual examples. When it comes to individual accounts, such as the OP, I want evidence before I start condemning anyone. Its that nasty "innocent until proven guilty" shtick ya know? So many people seem to ignore it when they feel that it gets in their way.
 
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re: Insight: Florida man sees "cruel" face of U.S. justice [W:53]

Kandahar said:
Yeah, **** him for being poor.
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No, **** him for being a violent criminal that proved he doesn't need to be a part of this society. He victimized many, threatened one mans life, and shot at another. Doesn't matter if he intended to kill or not. He's a violent animal that belongs in a cage.
 
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