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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

What? Haymarket is a liberal. Slavery was a right wing thing. What are you talking about?

Don't confuse em with facts. It can be dangerous. ;):roll:
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

You made it this far without dying or starving or freezing to death. From my perspective, that means just about anyone can.

Yeah because nobody has ever died or starved or froze to death. :roll:
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

The only difference being that we'll get taxed to pay for it now.

If the hospital builds into the cost on your bill or the government adds a tax what is the differemce
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

You really like using third grade labels like STUPID don't you?

Then don't say third grade level things. ;)

And you do NOT have to buy health insurance either.

Again the same lie. When are you going to prove it?

In our society, the way it is the choice to NOT drive a car and NOT purchase insurance is a so called choice that is not real or practical for very large numbers of people. Lets talk about the real USA where real American live real lives with real needs - the car being one of them instead of the libertarian dream world.

I live next to 30 people that don't own a car. And know at least a dozen more that don't live next to me. I know 20 other kids that drive around thier parents property without a license or insurance....its a good way to teach a kid how to drive actually and most parents around here do it. Hell, my wife didn't even have a license or a car until she was 32 and even then I pushed her into getting a license as I knew it would boost her confidence levels which were sorely lacking when I first met her. And that is just in this town alone. I could say much the same thing in several other towns I've lived in.

And then you seem to forget places like New York City where at least half the city doesn't own a car because they have public transportation readily available. And other cities nation wide.

Was that "real" enough for you?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

What? Haymarket is a liberal. Slavery was a right wing thing. What are you talking about?
Slavery has existed since the dawn of man. You attempt to make it a partisan issue is pathetic.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Again - the larger question has already been long decided and I see no real move to change that. Feel free to prove my observation wrong.

Your observation is not wrong. It's a function of doctors' oath and their legal responsibility to treat first, bill later. I understand that.

But you can't champion "responsibility" when government is taking over the decision-making process. Similarly, you can't suggest that someone who opts out of buying insurance is truly responsible for the implications of that choice if we end up treating him anyway.

If you want a system in which people take responsibility, rather than kick the cost burden of their health care needs to others, then you have to return to a private pay cash-only system. Short of that, our model of health care is characterized by systemic irresponsibility, because whatever you do, you'll get bailed out in your time of need.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Does the phrase "the greatest good for the greatest number" mean anything to you?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions....does that mean anything to you?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

You dodged my question. Again:

In my state of Michigan, one cannot obtain a drivers license without a automobile insurance policy in effect. Do you know of any states where this is NOT the case that you have insurance or proof of financial responsibility?

Maryland. Insurance follows the car.


Oh, and when I was stationed in KY, TN didn't require insurance to drive, or plate a car...That has changed I am sure since then.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

We debate about the margins and details - not about the basic decision at the core.

As a society, we argue about the number of angels dancing on the pin - not about IF there are angels dancing on the pin.

The basic decision at the core is the USG's right to force you to buy health insurance. That's still very much in debate, despite the fact that SCOTUS upheld the authority to do it.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Slavery has existed since the dawn of man. You attempt to make it a partisan issue is pathetic.

Nonetheless we can certainly categorize it on today's political spectrum. Slavery is the most extreme end of the conservative spectrum. Total sacrifice of social freedom to economic freedom. Small government. State's rights. Staying out of the way of big business. It is the exact opposite of everything haymarket believes in. So what are you basing your accusation on?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

You dodged my question. Again:

In my state of Michigan, one cannot obtain a drivers license without a automobile insurance policy in effect. Do you know of any states where this is NOT the case that you have insurance or proof of financial responsibility?

I don't believe that is true in any state, including Michigan. You may be confusing registration of an automobile with being licensed to drive a vehicle.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

The road to hell is paved with good intentions....does that mean anything to you?

If I was asking directions to Hades it might have some significance.

So I guess that puts you firmly against any good intentions?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

While it may be possible in some areas of the land to NOT own a car - there are plenty of areas where that is not a reality.

Why should people be fined for not buying health insurance? Were I writing the law- that would not be part of it. However, since it is I can only imagine it is there as in incentive to take responsibility for your life in that area and not simply let others totally assume the cost of your own irresponsibility.

:lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

I was looking here and didn't see that requirement...

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DE40_032001_20459_7.pdf

Driver Responsibility - Frequently Asked Questions

An owner or operator of a motor vehicle who fails to produce evidence of insurance when requested to produce that evidence or who fails to have motor vehicle insurance is responsible for a civil infraction

To get a license plate you must also have proof of insurance. You cannot legally drive a car without a license plate.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Those decisions have already been made on a societal level. They are beyond debate.

Hate to break your illusions there Haymarket but Congress and Senate and SCOTUS does not make up even 1% of society.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

I've been licensed in 7 states, and not once did they ask for insurance before giving me a license. All but one required proof of insurance to register a vehicle.

Texas requires proof of insurance for both registration and inspection
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

:lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo

Where you laughing on Thursday morning when the decision went against you and showed you were wrong?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Those decisions have already been made on a societal level. They are beyond debate.

Is it your assertion in the above statement that the societal decision was made based on the results of elections? If so haven’t you been arguing that elections are not the voice of the majority of society but rather those who choose to participate in elections?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Hate to break your illusions there Haymarket but Congress and Senate and SCOTUS does not make up even 1% of society.

I have no idea what the hell that means to what is being discussed.

Can you explain it in detail so it makes some semblance of sense?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Is it your assertion in the above statement that the societal decision was made based on the results of elections? If so haven’t you been arguing that elections are not the voice of the majority of society but rather those who choose to participate in elections?

The decisions that I say have been long ago made for the society we live in is that we do not simply let people die at the emergency room door, or starve to death, or freeze to death or any number of things because we judge they are stupid or irresponsible.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183]

The main difference is that there is no individual mandate in Romneycare, and no individual tax as a result.

Now, since Romney is obviously a pioneer in healhcare, why oppose him?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Texas requires proof of insurance for both registration and inspection

But not to get a drivers license, as Haymarket argued.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

I have no idea what the hell that means to what is being discussed.

Can you explain it in detail so it makes some semblance of sense?

I believe Kal's underlying point is that due to the low voter participation the legislative branch does not represent the majority of society thus the minority is making the decisions of the majority. Haven't you argued this before?
 
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