SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

AdamT · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Neomalthusian said:
Providing care to the 30 million more Americans who have nothing to offer to the pool means not only that per capita health care expenditures increase, but that the burden of covering them weighs down that much more heavily on... whoever has any money left.

You are supposed to feel bad about that, yes. The goal here needs to be about suppressing the costs of medical care, not flinging ever more costs onto the taxpayer.

Everyone who is covered under the Act has to contribute something. I don't feel bad about subsidizing health care for working families — sorry.

Albert Di Salvo · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
Everyone who is covered under the Act has to contribute something. I don't feel bad about subsidizing health care for working families — sorry.

The extension of Medicaid to the working poor isn't the problem. The problem is that the health care quality of my kith and kin will decline. That wasn't necessary. Aren't you surprised that conservatives will not acquiesce?

Neomalthusian · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
Everyone who is covered under the Act has to contribute something.

Even the poor saps who are struggling so much that they can't reasonable afford to pay much of anything?

Then what ever is going to suppress the costs of over-priced medical care?

I don't feel bad about subsidizing health care for working families — sorry.

Well we already were before PPACA.

AdamT · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Albert Di Salvo said:
The extension of Medicaid to the working poor isn't the problem. The problem is that the health care quality of my kith and kin will decline. That wasn't necessary. Aren't you surprised that conservatives will not acquiesce?

I think your kin will be alright, though I can't vouch for your kith.

What was your alternative plan to extend Medicaid to the working poor without putting additional stress on the health care industry?

AdamT · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Neomalthusian said:
Even the poor saps who are struggling so much that they can't reasonable afford to pay much of anything?

Those poor saps get standard Medicaid.

Well we already were before PPACA.

How so?

Boo Radley · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Bronson said:
Which is why a Free Market HC system like the United States had before Obamacare is vastly superior to the Socialized system the ACA is trying to force us into

The elderly in the UK hospitals are dying from starvation and thirst because there is no money left, yet people like you amazingly believe that the quality and availability of HC in the US is going to improve because of Obamacare. :lol:

Actually, there isn't any socialized medicine here, but the market rations as well. In fact, it rations perhaps a little more.

Albert Di Salvo · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
I think your kin will be alright, though I can't vouch for your kith.

What was your alternative plan to extend Medicaid to the working poor without putting additional stress on the health care industry?

Slash the military budget to the extent necessary to fund the extension of Medicaid. But it's too late to unring the bell now. The die is cast, and that is a terrible thing for America.

Neomalthusian · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
Those poor saps get standard Medicaid.

Ah, right, so they don't have to pay anything. Anyone who has something left to pay though, must. Yes?

From each according to his ability... you know the rest.

How so?

We've already been guaranteeing medical care indiscriminately, which ultimately forces whoever has money/income to cover the cost of all medical needs of the have-nots, assuming they can make their way to a hospital. Whether families had members who were working or not is irrelevant. Medical costs are incurred on the basis of need, and payment is shifted around and ultimately lands on whoever has the ability to pay. It is a predominantly communistic arrangement that ultimately pays for our health care.

Republic Now! · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
NO, the costs don't just land on the freeloader, they hit everybody. Maybe later they sign up for full fledged insurance, maybe the vast majority of their costs are over the deductible anyways. Either way, the costs end up driving up the cost of insurance. Preventative care is way cheaper than treating preventable conditions. Like a tiny fraction of the cost.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying at all. The costs end up driving up the costs of insurance? What does that sentence mean? How do HDHPs drive up the costs, and how does having an HDHP preclude getting preventative care? Do you know the cost of regular check ups compared to monthly premiums of average insurance? Unless someone else is paying for you, check ups are much cheaper.

Finally, throwing terms like "freeloader" around aren't productive.

Prof. Peabody · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Neomalthusian said:
Even the poor saps who are struggling so much that they can't reasonable afford to pay much of anything?

Then what ever is going to suppress the costs of over-priced medical care?

Well we already were before PPACA.

If you make just over the minimums of the Federal Poverty Level and can only afford the bottom (Bronze) plan here's the deductibles, copays and coinsurance you have to look forward to.

General percentage by level paid by consumer
(through deductibles, copays and coinsurance)

Bronze Level – 40%
Silver Level – 30%
Gold Level – 20%
Platinum Level – 10%

What kind of coverage will the plans sold through the health insurance exchanges include?

Root Canal Cost: $1,000 per Molar

May 12, 2009 By Julie Frey

This survey found the average root canal fee is $740 for a front tooth and $1,000 for a molar, with three out of four dentists saying they perform posterior root canals.

Root Canal Cost: $1,000 per Molar

If you have a 2 tooth root canal and still haven't met your 40% deductible, Bring your VISA card because your portion of the bill will be $2000 X 40% = $800. That's assuming you pay the deductible as you go, it's unclear if you'll need to go all out of pocket till the yearly is met.

OnWisconsin · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

What about 30 million more customers do you people not understand. This will not only line the Insurance providers pockets but also create a demand for doctors which will pull more students through the system. How is this socialism when it actually strengthens private insurance companies by 30+ million customers? A mandate is necessary if you want to keep the preexisting conditions clause which in my opinion is the most important part.

It just amazes me at the complete ignorance of what "socialism" is. Conservatives throw that word around to represent anything that doesn't fit into their narrow perspective, which means there is a lot of socialism out there...

Dan Treadway: Hate Obamacare? Don't Worry, Here Are Some Countries You Can Move To

Kal'Stang · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

OnWisconsin said:
What about 30 million more customers do you people not understand. This will not only line the Insurance providers pockets but also create a demand for doctors which will pull more students through the system. How is this socialism when it actually strengthens private insurance companies by 30+ million customers? A mandate is necessary if you want to keep the preexisting conditions clause which in my opinion is the most important part.

It just amazes me at the complete ignorance of what "socialism" is. Conservatives throw that word around to represent anything that doesn't fit into their narrow perspective, which means there is a lot of socialism out there...

Dan Treadway: Hate Obamacare? Don't Worry, Here Are Some Countries You Can Move To

Oh the irony.....*thinks about how liberals love to throw the race card around*

Republic Now! · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

OnWisconsin said:
What about 30 million more customers do you people not understand. This will not only line the Insurance providers pockets but also create a demand for doctors which will pull more students through the system. How is this socialism when it actually strengthens private insurance companies by 30+ million customers? A mandate is necessary if you want to keep the preexisting conditions clause which in my opinion is the most important part.

It just amazes me at the complete ignorance of what "socialism" is. Conservatives throw that word around to represent anything that doesn't fit into their narrow perspective, which means there is a lot of socialism out there...

Dan Treadway: Hate Obamacare? Don't Worry, Here Are Some Countries You Can Move To

It becomes easy to mesh socialism into any generic collectivist standard when viewing something like this.

Of course, it becomes difficult to accurately define such collectivist principles into a specific category since, it seems, the litmus test for most collectivists is whether they like it or not. Ultimately though, I don't really think applying a label like "socialist" is all that necessary anyway, as the nature of the bill, and more specifically the individual mandate, speaks for itself.

mac · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

teamosil said:
Honestly, I think a lot of conservative politicians are relieved by the decision. They talk big about how much they hate health care, but they didn't want to have to campaign to people who can't get medical care because of what they did. Republicans have all kinds of crazy rhetoric they're into, but it's better left as rhetoric, not reality.

None of them "hate healthcare" they hate Obamacare.

American · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
Everyone who is covered under the Act has to contribute something. I don't feel bad about subsidizing health care for working families — sorry.

And I'm tired of communist terms like "working families". Stop ****ing saying it, it's pure communism. Are you a communist?

mac · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1]

Kandahar said:
3. Perhaps the Democrats will indeed get a commanding majority in the Senate, the House, and the White House.

I believe it far more likely that the opposite is true. My bet is that Dems lose the senate, lose more of the house, and lose the executive.

Fletch · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1]

mac said:
I believe it far more likely that the opposite is true. My bet is that Dems lose the senate, lose more of the house, and lose the executive.

Right. For those who dislike Obamacare, there is now only one way to get rid of it since the Supreme Court has let it stand: you have to get rid of Obama. After all, it is Obamacare that led to the creation of the TP and the massive democrat congressional losses in 2010. Look for a repeat in 2012.

ttwtt78640 · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

OnWisconsin said:
What about 30 million more customers do you people not understand. This will not only line the Insurance providers pockets but also create a demand for doctors which will pull more students through the system. How is this socialism when it actually strengthens private insurance companies by 30+ million customers? A mandate is necessary if you want to keep the preexisting conditions clause which in my opinion is the most important part.

It just amazes me at the complete ignorance of what "socialism" is. Conservatives throw that word around to represent anything that doesn't fit into their narrow perspective, which means there is a lot of socialism out there...

Dan Treadway: Hate Obamacare? Don't Worry, Here Are Some Countries You Can Move To

These 30 million "customers" have either no jobs or McJobs, that is why they do not have insurance now. ObamaCare does not force "customers" into the system, it forces the taxpayers to CREATE "customers" by paying their premiums for them, as well as more for their own premiums. Yes insurance companies THINK they are getting more business, but wait and see what the REAL costs are when the ObamaCare added "free" preventive coverage mandates AND premium cost restrictions actually take effect.

AdamT · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Albert Di Salvo said:
Slash the military budget to the extent necessary to fund the extension of Medicaid. But it's too late to unring the bell now. The die is cast, and that is a terrible thing for America.

Slashing the military budget won't do a blessed thing to reduce wait times.

ACA is pretty good overall, but it's just a first step aimed primarily at expanding coverage. Much more needs to be done to contain costs.

AdamT · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

mac said:
None of them "hate healthcare" they hate Obamacare.

Correction: they hate OBAMA.

cpwill · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

StillBallin75 said:
HC is always being rationed in one manner or another. It's economics.

yup. so, generally speaking, who do you think is going to understand your individual circumstances better in figuring out what you don't need? You? Or someone in a cubicle in Washington trying to make you fit into a box with 125,000,000 others with a one-size-fits-not-quite-anybody solution?

hazlnut · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

cpwill said:
yup. so, generally speaking, who do you think is going to understand your individual circumstances better in figuring out what you don't need? You? Or someone in a cubicle in Washington trying to make you fit into a box with 125,000,000 others with a one-size-fits-not-quite-anybody solution?

Good thing what you suggest has nothing to do with the very constitutional ACA.

cpwill · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

AdamT said:
Correction: they hate OBAMA.

no. just the policies. Obama's favorabilities are much higher than the health insurance ~~bill~~ tax that bears his name.

AdamT · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

ttwtt78640 said:
These 30 million "customers" have either no jobs or McJobs, that is why they do not have insurance now. ObamaCare does not force "customers" into the system, it forces the taxpayers to CREATE "customers" by paying their premiums for them, as well as more for their own premiums. Yes insurance companies THINK they are getting more business, but wait and see what the REAL costs are when the ObamaCare added "free" preventive coverage mandates AND premium cost restrictions actually take effect.

It's certainly possible that a construction worker is better at evaluating risk than the entire insurance industry ... but I wouldn't bet on it.

cpwill · Jun 30, 2012

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

hazlnut said:
Good thing what you suggest has nothing to do with the very constitutional ACA.

apparently you have never heard of the Independent Panel Advisory Board

.

SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2[W:1, 183, 386, 590]

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mac

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cpwill

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