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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kandahar said:
The bulk of the bill was passed through the standard process. This includes nearly all of the major provisions of the law. Wikipedia has a good rundown of all the provisions in the original bill (which were NOT passed by reconciliation) here:
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The changes that were passed by reconciliation were known as the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010, and can be found here:
Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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If you actually know which provisions of the legislation were passed through the Budget Reconciliation please refer me to them by reference to the specific sections in the legislation. That would save me a great deal of time. Thanks.
 
Redress said:
It is a good representation of why using anecdote is not an effective argument. Literally billions of people receive health care in the world every year, there are good stories and bad stories. My step-sister was killed by a doctor's mistake, right here is the US(Needed a catheter run into her heart while giving birth, the catheter went out the wall of the artery running to heart, then back in, then out again, then in and damaged wall of heart).
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Theres alot of canadians that winter in my area...they are of course more financially secure than the average canadian I believe....We have a dinner dance in our VFW every week that is open to the public and we have open bingo and other events in which canadians are more than welcome...from what ive been told and its 100% of every canadian Ive talked too...they have said hands down health care is better in the USA and whenever they can they wait until they are in floridia to get elective procedures....now is that a huge cross section of canadians of course not...but its more than just a few over the last 8 yrs and I have to assume its relatively accurate...the one actual story that I was told...by a fella that got two knee replacements...his were so bad that while he waited 9 months to get the surgery he was wheel chair bound.
Here in the usa...I can go to my orthpaedic surgeon get an mri..be told i need a replacement and have all the pre op tests and my knee replaced within 10 days.
 
Redress said:
That is pretty much what happened to my dad right here in the US.....
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I'm sorry. Losing a parent is tough because a little bit of you dies when they pass on.

America probably has wonderful health care for people with good insurance or lots of money, and is probably mediocre to bad for people with poor or no coverage.

The thirty million uninsured could have been provided with coverage without disturbing my health care. It would have been advisable imo to open up Medicaid to those folks and to pay for it by cutting five Army divisions, one Marine division, six Air Force wings, and three aircraft carrier battle groups. That's where the money was. It was not necessary to alter the health care of my kith and kin. That approach wouldn't have opened up a constitutional can of worms.
 
mac said:
The attorney arguing the case also did, which is why his tertiary argument was based on Congress' authority to tax.

My main issue is that I feel that the individual mandate is at the very least, an innapropriate overreach of govt. Another issue is the President, who is well versed on Constitutional law, claimed he would not pay for it through taxes and that is exaclty what he did. And he HAD to know that he was doing it.

Lastly, I'm simply amazed that it was upheld under Congress' right to tax, and nothing else, yet the partisans here still insist it is not a tax.
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It makes not difference one way or the other. I won't pay a tax or a penalty because I have insurance. That should be the same for all responibile people. SO, other than repeating tax ad nausium, what real and pertinent difference does it make?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Kal'Stang said:
Or maybe the ones that haven't been are actually in the minority and those with political agenda's have blown it all out of proportion. Much like they did with ciggarettes.
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Then I am in the minority along with everybody I know. That seems difficult to believe.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Waiting times were already getting longer in the United States. Obamacare didn't solve the problem, nor did it create the problem. Why we're debating this is beyond me, as it has nothing to do with what was decided yesterday.

And when you think about it, it's the perfect metaphor for his entire Presidency. Neither caused nor solved the problem.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

AdamT said:
No, I haven't been a patient in a VA hospital but I've visited a few. Also have a friend who was a VA radiologist.

And the VA is absolutely the most socialist health system in the world. The doctors work for the government, the hospitals and all the equipment are owned by the government, the care is paid for by the government, the meds are paid for by the government ... It doesn't get any more socialist than that.
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And all retired personnel that use it pay insurance premiums. It takes months to get an appointment, and the care is...rushed...to say the least.
 
Boo Radley said:
It makes not difference one way or the other. I won't pay a tax or a penalty because I have insurance. That should be the same for all responibile people. SO, other than repeating tax ad nausium, what real and pertinent difference does it make?
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I prefer this new system where only those not being responsible for their health care are paying the tax, rather than the system before where everyone paid higher health care costs to cover those not willing to be responsible for their own health care.

Conservatives, back when they cared more about fiscal responsibility, agreed obviously, when they came up with the insurance mandate as an alternative to UHC.
 
Boo Radley said:
It makes not difference one way or the other. I won't pay a tax or a penalty because I have insurance. That should be the same for all responibile people. SO, other than repeating tax ad nausium, what real and pertinent difference does it make?
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Most importantly that they passed it under false pretenses. Which is a nice way of saying they lied to the American people.
 
Billy the Kid said:
Or the "hospitals and clinics" are afraid they'll have their pants sued off.
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Another thing that sucks about the American system. Lawsuits are very rare here.

But heck, better cover your ass and start sending 20 somethings to get mammograms and colonoscopies. :roll:
 
Catawba said:
I prefer this new system where only those not being responsible for their health care are paying the tax, rather than the system before where everyone paid higher health care costs to cover those not willing to be responsible for their own health care.

Conservatives, back when they cared more about fiscal responsibility, agreed obviously, when they came up with the insurance mandate as an alternative to UHC.
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It's not just those that are irresponsible. It's anyone that makes enough money to have to file a tax return. That's anyone making over 9k a year (single) and families making over 18k a year (married). Think they can afford insurance premiums?
 
mac said:
It's not just those that are irresponsible. It's anyone that makes enough money to have to file a tax return. That's anyone making over 9k a year (single) and families making over 18k a year (married). Think they can afford insurance premiums?
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The insurance premiums could be lower for everyone, considering that 30 million people will be joining the pool.

I'm not holding my breath for that one.
 
mac said:
It's not just those that are irresponsible. It's anyone that makes enough money to have to file a tax return. That's anyone making over 9k a year (single) and families making over 18k a year (married). Think they can afford insurance premiums?
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The folks you're talking about qualify for regular Medcaid. They aren't even effected by Obamacare.
 
Mickey Shane said:
The insurance premiums could be lower for everyone, considering that 30 million people will be joining the pool.

I'm not holding my breath for that one.
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Right, insurance extended to poor people with bad diets is gonna lower the premiums. Let me ask you something....Do people in Dallas pay the same auto insurance premiums as people in, say Truth or Consequences, NM?
 
mac said:
Most importantly that they passed it under false pretenses. Which is a nice way of saying they lied to the American people.
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I don't see that. He didn't believe it was a tax. A good lawyer covered his bets and won. But, practically, it makes no difference.
 
mac said:
It's not just those that are irresponsible. It's anyone that makes enough money to have to file a tax return. That's anyone making over 9k a year (single) and families making over 18k a year (married). Think they can afford insurance premiums?
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There is assistance available for those that cannot afford health insurance:



"Help for the Uninsured
I don't have insurance, and really can't afford it. Is there anything in health reform to help me now?

New York State already has a lot of programs for people that don't have insurance. Visit the Health Insurance Coverage in New York State page for more information. You can also call 1-800-698-4KIDS for more information about health insurance for children, or 1-877-9FHPLUS (1-877-934-7587) for more information about health insurance for low income adults.

Health reform will further expand the Medicaid program starting in 2014, making it easier for more low income adults and children to get help. If you would like more information, go to Putting Americans In Control of Their Health Care, and click "I do not have insurance."

Questions and Answers - Federal Health Care Reform Implementation in New York State
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

rocket88 said:
Waiting times were already getting longer in the United States. Obamacare didn't solve the problem, nor did it create the problem. Why we're debating this is beyond me, as it has nothing to do with what was decided yesterday.

And when you think about it, it's the perfect metaphor for his entire Presidency. Neither caused nor solved the problem.
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What do you think the "waiting time" is going to be when 30 Million more people are added. I'm on record that it's going to be a lot longer. The solution is to produce more doctors. Who's going to foot the bill for these doctors?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

mac said:
And all retired personnel that use it pay insurance premiums. It takes months to get an appointment, and the care is...rushed...to say the least.
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I have friends in the system and their comments reflect what you've posted.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't see that. He didn't believe it was a tax. A good lawyer covered his bets and won. But, practically, it makes no difference.
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I see. The Constitutional law professor didn't understand what they were doing. I guess Pelosi was right, they had to pass it to figure out what was in it.

Did they argue under congress' authority to tax by mistake, as well?
 
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Middleground said:
Another thing that sucks about the American system. Lawsuits are very rare here.

But heck, better cover your ass and start sending 20 somethings to get mammograms and colonoscopies. :roll:
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If you're refering to the link, I didn't write it, just posted it. Don't agree, then dispute.

If your refering to the American system, I posted the reason we have so many "extra" mammos and scopes, is the doctors are covering their arse. Maybe some sort of "tort reform" should have been added to Obamacare. Oh, I forgot the American Bar Association rejected that part.
 
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AdamT said:
Folks who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but too little to pay for health coverage, as well as many with pre existing conditions.
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And paying an additional tax is going to help them.
 
mac said:
I see. The Constitutional law professor didn't understand what they were doing.

Did they argue under congress' authority to tax by mistake, as well?
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You'll notive the judges disagreed. Not only was there a 5-4 split, but at least bought the commerce clause argument. So, you premise that there was only one answer doesn't really hold water.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758]

Billy the Kid said:
I have friends in the system and their comments reflect what you've posted.
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As I understand it it's like the private system: better in some places than others.

WASHINGTON, Jan. 20, 2006 – Veterans continued to rate the care they receive through the Department of Veterans Affairs health care system higher than other Americans rate private-sector health care for the sixth consecutive year, a new annual report on customer satisfaction reveals.

Defense.gov News Article: VA Outranks Private Sector in Health Care Patient Satisfaction





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