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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Moderator's Warning:
Thread Topic: The healthcare mandate survives

Not Topic: The rules of this forum

Continue this line of conversation and thread bans will occur

I apologize and retract the objectionable comments.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Id have to look but I sort of remember there being a penalty exemption for a certain level below or at the poverty line. Got to do some digging to find the income cap on that. Or I could be completely wrong, gimme a few to sort it out.

I've been trying to find this, but to no avail. Hope you have better luck.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

How about FDA reform? How about cures proven to be better than existing ones not showing up in the US because the FDA requires an additon mulit-million dollar trials program from companies that can't afford it? How about an FDA that appears to over inspects medicine and underinspects beef?
Absolutely. Here's a simple solution, the FDA can still require their testing for products for consumer recourse, people who seek non FDA approved medicines would forfeit the right to seek a civil penalty unless fraud, negligence, or some other standard of bad faith treatment can be set. As well, guarantees of product performance should fall under bad faith. In the case of a terminal diagnosis, when the approved cure doesn't work, why not give the option for alternative medicine. Consumers should have choices in the USA.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

The ObamaCare tax penalty applies to the unlucky citzens that make too much too get in the "discount" (free?) pool, yet not enough to afford the medical care insurance premiums offered IN THEIR STATE so they must pay the federal fine AND pay out of pocket for any needed medical care that they should happen to require. Unlike SNAP benefits, that have a sliding benefit scale, no such deal was included in PPACA, you either do or do not qualify for gov't help buying "private" medical insurance. The law will likely be "tweeked" to avoid this nonsense.

No, the penalty simply applies to anyone who can afford to pay for insurance but doesn't.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Lots of opinions floating about on this decision. I am not surprised at from it. The only thing that made me raise an eyebrow was that the individual mandate stood, but they struck down the Medicaid issue where states would be thrown out of the program if they disagreed or what have you.

I honestly thought the only thing in jeopardy of being struck down was the IM.

I also found it interesting that Liberal leaning Justice Kennedy voted against it while Conservative leaning Chief Justice Roberts voted in favor of it.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Id have to look but I sort of remember there being a penalty exemption for a certain level below or at the poverty line. Got to do some digging to find the income cap on that. Or I could be completely wrong, gimme a few to sort it out.

Found it sorta.

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia hate using Wiki as a source

Medicaid eligibility is expanded to include all individuals and families with incomes up to 133% of the poverty level along with a simplified CHIP enrollment process
I believe this was struck down. Anyone corroborate?

Low income persons and families above the Medicaid level and up to 400% of the federal poverty level will receive federal subsidies[28] on a sliding scale if they choose to purchase insurance via an exchange (persons at 150% of the poverty level would be subsidized such that their premium cost would be of 2% of income or $50 a month for a family of 4
Are the exchanges still a go or were they axed as well?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

No, the penalty simply applies to anyone who can afford to pay for insurance but doesn't.


So again, if the poorest of the poor can't pay who picks up the tab?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I thought you we're talking about waivers. You're talking about exemptions. Same thing applies: high proportion of union plans because unions have a lot of Cadillac plans. :shrug:

And they get exemptions until 2018 why? Cant prove its politics but if it walks like a duck.....
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

So again, if the poorest of the poor can't pay who picks up the tab?
The poorest of the poor aren't affected by this at all. They're covered by Medicaid.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Even if that were true, and we're not sure that's going to be the case, the remaining 18 million uninsured won't be so happy. They'll still have no insurance, and be penalized for it to boot.

Number of uninsured Americans rises to 50.7 million.

Despite being a misleading number, that equates to about 10% of the population. It also includes those that choose not to buy insurance despite being able to afford it.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Despite being a misleading number, that equates to about 1% of the population. It also includes those that choose not to buy insurance despite being able to afford it.

50,700,000 is only 1% of 320,000,000?

try 16%.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I thought you we're talking about waivers. You're talking about exemptions. Same thing applies: high proportion of union plans because unions have a lot of Cadillac plans. :shrug:

That is a hoot. The gov't has set both minimum and maximum benefits that "private" insurance companies can offer. ;-)
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I agree. But go back and look at Kelo and tell me you didnt see this? I sort of did as a worst case scenario.

Anyone feel Wickard got derailed but a worse decision took its place as government now has the ability to tax the absence of commerce as well as its existence?
Kelo was a horrible decision, and yeah, Wickard got mutated into something much worse here. So yeah, while the government lost a commerce clause argument they gained powers through taxes. Basically the CC just got the final coffin nail towards irrelevance. How the **** can a court say that the government can tax anything, even things not within it's authority!?!? What a stupid ****ing ruling!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

And they get exemptions until 2018 why? Cant prove its politics but if it walks like a duck.....

Everyone who gets this exemption has until 2018 — not just unions.

But you can understand the unuions' problem. Unlike other entities, unions health benefits are subject to collective bargaining agreements.
 
The poorest of the poor aren't affected by this at all. They're covered by Medicaid.

As prices rise and those just above cutoff stay chained to their expensive policies, we can expect them to drop into eligibility and for Medicaid needs to swell immensely, right? I guess this must be the plan. Make us poor enough to need them.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

The poorest of the poor aren't affected by this at all. They're covered by Medicaid.

That argument turns in on itself. The purpose of this law was to cover people not covered by medicaid.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Despite being a misleading number, that equates to about 10% of the population. It also includes those that choose not to buy insurance despite being able to afford it.

The ObamaCare tax penalty applies to the unlucky citzens that make too much to get in the "discount" (free?) pool, yet not enough to afford the medical care insurance premiums offered IN THEIR STATE so they must pay the federal fine AND pay out of pocket for any needed medical care that they should happen to require. Unlike SNAP benefits, that have a sliding benefit scale, no such deal was included in PPACA, you either do or do not qualify for gov't help buying "private" medical insurance. This will really enrage those that are right on the edge, they make just too much to get the gov't "help", but after paying the IRS fine, their REAL remaining income would have qualified. The law will likely be "tweeked" to avoid this nonsense.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

That is a hoot. The gov't has set both minimum and maximum benefits that "private" insurance companies can offer. ;-)
A bit of a non sequitur, and also not true. Companies can set whatever maximum benefits they want, as long as they're willing to pay the tax.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

So again, if the poorest of the poor can't pay who picks up the tab?

The same folks who pay now when those poor folks use emergency care for healthcare and then stiff the hospital because they're too poor to pay the bill.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

The poorest of the poor aren't affected by this at all. They're covered by Medicaid.

Why? Isn't this the reason for the bill? To take care of those who can't afford HC?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

So again, if the poorest of the poor can't pay who picks up the tab?

Just like now. ALL of the insured do. It's just that now there are more of us insured so the costs will be less for each of us.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

how much insurance do you now have to have?

is only hospital insurance enough? can it just be non-emergency coverage?

can it be super cheap with a $15,000 deductable?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

THIS is what you decided to vote for Romney on? Seriously dude? Where have you been for the past two decades? Despite Romney's claimed new position, he was a champion of Obamacare. If you are basing your vote for him on this....you are seriously just getting shaken and snowed by this week's etch a sketch.

No, as I explained, I decided to vote Romney when Obama went full-on off the rails (the Dream Act passed by the Executive, covering his or someone's ass in the F&F mess, etc.). This, most recent BS, has made me want to stump for Romney. Now, I'm not only going to vote for him, but I'll work to get him elected.

At this point it's all about the SCOTUS. Two, maybe three justices are going to step down in the next couple presidential terms. I do not want Obama making those appointments.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Why? Isn't this the reason for the bill? To take care of those who can't afford HC?

No not really. The bill was written so more can afford coverage but more importantly it serves to reign in the insurers who have been abusing many of us. No more denying coverage..that is a major cause of bankruptcy amoung the insured.
 
At this point it's all about the SCOTUS. Two, maybe three justices are going to step down in the next couple presidential terms. I do not want Obama making those appointments.

Yeah we need more conservative justices like Roberts.
 
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