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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384]

covering it live on the blog. mods- not sure if this is the best venue, but it was "breaking"

Also, the Stolen Valor Act was declared to be in violation of the First Amendment, so any of you who are fake war heroes can go on telling people how you were a Green Beret Seal who won the Medal of Honor.



Damn. Damn Damn Damn. Apparently they bought that it was a tax, Roberts has sided with the left of the Court.


the Medicaid expansion was "limited but not invalidated"





Seriously, you gotta be F'ing kidding me. Obama spent a year and a half swearing up and down that this wasn't a tax, Congressional leadership following in suit.

I understand it as a tax deduction and not a tax... If you don't have insurance, you miss out on a federal deduction and that means you could very well pay higher taxes but it probably depends on your filing status and such.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Stupidest ****ing ruling ever, Roberts dropped the ball on this.

Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of RW panties in a wad.

lisa_laughing.gif
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

This is another straw on the camel's back. As each straw is added the risk of the camel's back breaking increases.

The problem with the ruling is that it sets the precedent that Congress can pass a law taxing both action and inaction in any realm.

Where were you guys during the court case? I'm sure if you'd presented your arguments to the court they'd side with you. I honestly wonder why SCOTUS never listens to all the critics. I'm not saying they're infallible - but I doubt the arguments you guys are making were radically different from those made in court. If the courts didn't listen to the team of high powered attorneys - why would they listen to you? Why did ROBERTS a supposed "Constitutionalist" side with Obama?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I find it extremely interesting that Roberts would agree with that, since it seems to go against his belief in strict interpretation.

There's one interesting interpritation I've heard...

Supposedly the SCOTUS can't rule on the constitutionality of a tax until it has been actually levied. So essentially, striking it by the commerce clause but declaring this thing a tax, is essentially saying "This, in general, is allowable because it's a tax and taxes are something the government can institute". HOWEVER, it's not stating said tax ITSELF is constitutional...only that it's constitutional for the government to levy a tax, and this thing levies a tax, and therefore the bill is constitutional in its current status today.

A status where the tax hasn't been levied.

Once the tax IS levied, THEN a decision regarding the constitutionality of the tax itself could be done.

Now granted, this is really early and just one general reading of it I've heard and been able to gather myself...but that would be one possability for explaining Roberts view on this. Essentially that it's constitutional for the government to institute a tax in general, but that the constitutionality of this specific tax can't really be decided today because it hasn't been levied.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

The problem with the ruling is that it sets the precedent that Congress can pass a law taxing both action and inaction in any realm.

The Federal Government can make you do anything it wants and just call it a tax
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Well that F'ing does it. I guess I really am going to have to send money to Romney.

You seem to got that Obamacare was Romney's plan 4 years ago..
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Morally, I support this law. We need to have more Americans on health insurance in order to lower all of our ER costs, and to have a healthier Republic.

But legally, I think the idea of taxing someone because they didn't buy something they don't want...is silly & dumb.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Was today's decision a defeat for Conservatives? Not necessarily, and here's why. What would definitely have been ruled Constitutional would have been to put EVERYBODY in the US under Medicare, thus giving us a system just like Canada's. Medicare is already settled law, and the only thing that would have to be done is merely changing the age from 65 to 0. Obamacare may be upon us, but it could have been a lot worse, had the Democrats pushed for a change in Medicare and won.

Conservatives should not see todays ruling as either a victory or as a defeat. It's more like a tie in a football game, which is tantamount to having to kiss your sister. Liberals should see it the same way, since if they got what they wanted, Canada's system would be America's system too. And yes, today's ruling is an ugly looking sister too. :mrgreen:

Actually Medicare for all would have been much, much better, and I hope we are heading into that direction.
 
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Much of your" "speech" is not political, it has racial commentary and causes resentment against you, it doesn't motivate your brethren.

That's your subjective opinion to which you are entitled. I don't agree with you about the motivating effect of this decision. No one can deny that $500 billion is being transferred from Medicare to Obamacare. The de facto impact is to transfer health care from white seniors to non-whites. This is the basis for deep resentment. Resentment is the basis for political action.

Political speech often hurts the feelings of others. This is regrettable, but is a necessary predicate for political organization and action. African America has shown the way in which resentment can be used for political purposes. In doing so the precedent was established.
 
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I understand it as a tax deduction and not a tax

From what I've read, you seem to understand it differently than the SCOTUS understood it as the basis for their ruling of it constitutional.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

And I must say, it is amazing that John Roberts, who was GWB's nominee and the Chief Justice, is the one who made the deciding vote. Fun times we live in. :)
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Calm down. It's not like GWB just got reelected or anything... lol

No, but GWB did just pass Obama's health care bill. Thanks Dubya!
 
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Actually Medicare for all would have been much, much better, and I hope we are heading into that direction.

or at a minimum, let folks buy into Medicare. It would make it more solvent.....as many folks who buy health insurance rarely use it.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Actually Medicare for all would have been much, much better, and I hope we are heading into that direction.


I hope so too YS. I have always expected that the ACA would be refined. This ruling provides the opportunity to do so. Now, if only they will take it and go that route.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Sick to my stomach ATM. :(


Tim-

It's funny how people are posting about getting sick in this thread...
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

As somebody who really didn't know much about the healthcare debate and just wanted to see conservatives with eggs all over their faces:

I for one would like to congratulate Obama for giving the Republicans 2 black eyes in 1 week. Not only did 3/4ths of the Arizona law get struck down, the ENTIRE healthcare mandate has been upheld. You can't make this guy up. Seriously, Republicans would need to essentially bring Jesus down from heaven to run against him. He's Clinton II.

Sorry fellas!

Don't feel sorry so fast.

Public opinion of the health care law

June 28, 2012 10:36 AM

Since it was enacted over two years ago, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, President Obama's signature piece of legislation, has never been especially popular with the American public. Just 34 percent approve of the health care law, according to a CBS News/New York Times Poll released earlier this month, while 48 percent disapprove. Other recent polls also show more oppose the law than support it.

Overall opinions of the health care law have barely wavered since its passage in March 2010, and support for it has never reached 50 percent in CBS News Polls. Back in May 2010, two months after it was passed, 43 percent of Americans approved of the law - that's the highest percentage to date.

Public opinion of the health care law - CBS News

Add to that $5 trillion in new debt, stagnant economy and over 1 million filing new jobless claims per month vs 169,000 new jobs an what do you get?

I can see you are unfamiliar with the health care bill. Folks making more than 133% of the Federal Poverty Level and you pay for insurance or pay the $600 a year tax. A single person making over $14,856 would have to pay for insurance (on $14,856, really?) or $600 tax. A married couple with no kids making over $20,122 a year would be required to pay for insurance for 2 or the tax for 2. A family of 4, 2 adults and 2 kids making over $30,656 a year would have to buy insurance for 4 or pay double the tax for the adults. I'm sure all of them will think this is a really good idea when they vote in November.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Well that F'ing does it. I guess I really am going to have to send money to Romney.

Why, this is his plan. He has just been trying to appease to get elected.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I doubt the Republic will crumble because of Obamacare.

No, it never happens because of one thing, but preponderance of things. This attitude that people owe other people their property will be the undoing of this country. You may actually see that day. This rulling today was another large chunk axed out of the tree of liberty.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Great day for the country. The more people that we have insured the better off we all are.
yes, yes it is a great day!!!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Yea, but we fought a war to change it, your side lost yet after 150 years you still can't accept it.

I think the Civil War turned out correctly.



Go look it up.

It's your responsibility to prove the truth of the matter you assert to be true.




You are using the technique of those you hate?

All is fair in love and war.






Yep, and we see your form.

Actually, my views are so eclectic that you probably haven't encountered someone like me who draws from both left and right.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384]

I understand it as a tax deduction and not a tax... If you don't have insurance, you miss out on a federal deduction and that means you could very well pay higher taxes but it probably depends on your filing status and such.

It's a tax because it is something that didn't previously need to be paid.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Yep, government set themselves up good, didn't they?

And Roberts helped them.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I tried to warn folks not to get too far ahead of themselves and think they already know the outcome. What I hope is that they go back to work and craft something better. UHC would be best. A public option second best. But we'll just have to see how it plays out.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

That's your subjective opinion to which you are entitled. I don't agree with you about the motivating effect of this decision. No one can deny that $500 billion is being transferred from Medicare to Obamacare. The de facto impact is to transfer health care from white seniors to non-whites. This is the basis for deep resentment. Resentment is the basis for political action.

Political speech often hurts the feelings of others. This is regrettable, but is a necessary predicate for political organization and action. African America has shown the way in which resentment can be used for political purposes. In doing so the precedent was established.
Again, you are making it a race issue, it doesn't fly, it doesn't motivate your side and makes you look really bad. But please....don't stop, that helps my side.
 
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