• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Gimmesometruth said:
A provision created by slave owners.
Click to expand...

The 3/5ths provision was to restrict the representation of the South in Congress since they could effectively increase their pull in the government by buying more slaves.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Zyphlin said:
Nope. The commerce clause argument was found to be unconstitutional. However...they deemed that the penalty is a new tax, and that it falls under the guidelines of the feds ability to tax people. So the government can't force you to buy a commodity, but they can tax you for not owning a commodity.
Click to expand...

Then they could tax you for not owning a gun, or for owning one.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

American said:
Then they could tax you for not owning a gun, or for owning one.
Click to expand...

Yep. There is no doubt that Congress will have more bills like this on the table over the next decade.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
As somebody who really didn't know much about the healthcare debate and just wanted to see conservatives with eggs all over their faces:

obama-haters-gonna-hate.jpg


I for one would like to congratulate Obama for giving the Republicans 2 black eyes in 1 week. Not only did 3/4ths of the Arizona law get struck down, the ENTIRE healthcare mandate has been upheld. You can't make this guy up. Seriously, Republicans would need to essentially bring Jesus down from heaven to run against him. He's Clinton II.

Sorry fellas!
Click to expand...

You could someday come to regret these laws. Be careful what you wish for.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Gimmesometruth said:
A provision created by slave owners.
Click to expand...

The provision was agreed to by all of the states that ratified the original constitution.

Mass has seen an improvement in quantity and quality.
Click to expand...

I don't believe you.


Racists divide themselves from society, they whip up no one but fellow racists.
Click to expand...

Al Sharpton tells us that resentment is a perfectly legitimate basis for political organization.


Populism has been a feature of US politics for a long time.
Click to expand...

That's right, but there are different forms of populism.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

When the ACA came out I was vehemently against the mandate as legitimized by the Commerce Clause. But I fully supported various portions (26yo, pre-existing, no limits, no cancellation, etc.) of the law as private insurance companies have the ability to price the various provisions into their premiums. Yes these would increase premiums but there is no free ride. Those being uncovered could have easily consumed into already existing public mechanisms (Medicare/Medicaid). After reading the SCOTUS questions and arguments it seemed they were seeing it favorably under the purview of a tax which I am not against. The Court now has voiced the opinion thusly. The persistent banter seemed to revolve around ‘forcing folks to purchase something’ and ‘it’s not a tax’. It seemed to me the President could have avoided much of this division by initially claiming it to be a tax but would have contradicted his campaign position but the court ultimately reinforced this contradiction.

In the end will it work? Who knows, only time will tell but to be sure it is the law, confirmed by the SCOTUS, so we must abide.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Moderator's Warning:
More merging
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Redress said:
Moderator's Warning:
More merging
Click to expand...

What got merged, I'm not seeing it?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

American said:
You could someday come to regret these laws. Be careful what you wish for.
Click to expand...

I doubt the Republic will crumble because of Obamacare.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Albert Di Salvo said:
This decision can be used to stoke resentment. Resentment is an established basis for political organization and action.

President Obama's numbers among white voters can be driven down by stoking resentment among white seniors especially.
Click to expand...


Yes there that could happen.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Dickieboy said:
When the ACA came out I was vehemently against the mandate as legitimized by the Commerce Clause. But I fully supported various portions (26yo, pre-existing, no limits, no cancellation, etc.) of the law as private insurance companies have the ability to price the various provisions into their premiums. Yes these would increase premiums but there is no free ride. Those being uncovered could have easily consumed into already existing public mechanisms (Medicare/Medicaid). After reading the SCOTUS questions and arguments it seemed they were seeing it favorably under the purview of a tax which I am not against. The Court now has voiced the opinion thusly. The persistent banter seemed to revolve around ‘forcing folks to purchase something’ and ‘it’s not a tax’. It seemed to me the President could have avoided much of this division by initially claiming it to be a tax but would have contradicted his campaign position but the court ultimately reinforced this contradiction.

In the end will it work? Who knows, only time will tell but to be sure it is the law, confirmed by the SCOTUS, so we must abide.
Click to expand...

It is not 2014 yet, congress made this mess and can change it. ;-)
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Albert Di Salvo said:
Its political speech designed to motivate and help organization based on resentment. That's completely legal.
Click to expand...
Much of your" "speech" is not political, it has racial commentary and causes resentment against you, it doesn't motivate your brethren.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384]

Zyphlin said:
I'm confused. It seemed like you were saying you liked both rulings but didn't one of the rulings say that hte piece of garbage biker in a wheelchair with vietnam vet pins can still claim he lost his legs at hamburger hill?
Click to expand...

DAMN!!!!!!!!!! your right zyph I went back and re read it...I read it wrong the first time...unreal.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
I doubt the Republic will crumble because of Obamacare.
Click to expand...

The problem with the ruling is that it sets the precedent that Congress can pass a law taxing both action and inaction in any realm.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
I doubt the Republic will crumble because of Obamacare.
Click to expand...

This is another straw on the camel's back. As each straw is added the risk of the camel's back breaking increases.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

American said:
Then they could tax you for not owning a gun, or for owning one.
Click to expand...

Yep, government set themselves up good, didn't they?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

ttwtt78640 said:
It is not 2014 yet, congress made this mess and can change it. ;-)
Click to expand...

They can but it would seem too 'nuclear' for either side to seriously touch it. BUT the rhetoric will continue ad infinitum.
 
Re: Entire Healthcare Law Upheld

treedancer said:
Always look for the silver lining.:mrgreen:

Hospital stocks jump after health care ruling - Yahoo! Finance
Click to expand...

They seem to be down to me. Unless red means green and down means up.

Let me pose another scenario since the people celebrating seemed to have ignored my earlier statements:

Let's say big bad corporation x comes by and says "Hey congress, we elected you guys, we need you to pass a bill requiring people to buy our product!" So congress goes and says "Hey, okay, you did get us elected after all. Hmm, well we can't force people into commerce per say. Oh, I know, lets just follow the ACA and tax those who don't buy it!"

Anyone want to explain to me how the supreme court DIDN'T just rule that this is fair game and totally constitutional? What better motivation to sell your product then fear of destitution.
 
Last edited:
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

cpwill said:
Well that F'ing does it. I guess I really am going to have to send money to Romney.
Click to expand...

Calm down. It's not like GWB just got reelected or anything... lol
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Was today's decision a defeat for Conservatives? Not necessarily, and here's why. What would definitely have been ruled Constitutional would have been to put EVERYBODY in the US under Medicare, thus giving us a system just like Canada's. Medicare is already settled law, and the only thing that would have to be done is merely changing the age from 65 to 0. Obamacare may be upon us, but it could have been a lot worse, had the Democrats pushed for a change in Medicare and won.

Conservatives should not see todays ruling as either a victory or as a defeat. It's more like a tie in a football game, which is tantamount to having to kiss your sister. Liberals should see it the same way, since if they got what they wanted, Canada's system would be America's system too. And yes, today's ruling is an ugly looking sister too. :mrgreen:
 
Last edited:
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Albert Di Salvo said:
The provision was agreed to by all of the states that ratified the original constitution.
Click to expand...
Yea, but we fought a war to change it, your side lost yet after 150 years you still can't accept it.



I don't believe you.
Click to expand...
Go look it up.




Al Sharpton tells us that resentment is a perfectly legitimate basis for political organization.
Click to expand...
You are using the technique of those you hate?




That's right, but there are different forms of populism.
Click to expand...
Yep, and we see your form.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Gina said:
Why would the veterans administration hospitals and military hospitals be shut down over this? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Two excuses/reasons/justifications. 1-the cost for what they have is simply too high. 2-To get in universal healthcare they would eliminate the military specific hospitals (and fiscally, it makes sense).
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Dickieboy said:
They can but it would seem too 'nuclear' for either side to seriously touch it. BUT the rhetoric will continue ad infinitum.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the president (king?) can simply choose not to enforce it for citizens under age 80. ;-)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom