• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives

Under the mandate, if an individual does not maintain health insurance, the only consequence is that he must make an additional payment to the IRS when he pays his taxes. See §5000A(b). That, according to the Government,means the mandate can be regarded as establishing acondition—not owning health insurance—that triggers atax—the required payment to the IRS. Under that theory, the mandate is not a legal command to buy insurance.Rather, it makes going without insurance just another thing the Government taxes, like buying gasoline or earning income. And if the mandate is in effect just a tax hike on certain taxpayers who do not have health insurance, itmay be within Congress’s constitutional power to tax.

So I wonder what can't be a "tax" now. It seems to me like any time the government wishes to coerce an act (such as a purchase), all they have to do is put a steep fine on it and claim the fine is a "tax."

So what am I missing here? What's the distinction?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Irrelevant. Demonstrable incompetence is demonstrable incompetence.

I don't care if you have a PHD in Mathematics from MIT. If someone else says 2+2=5, and you give your stamp of approval to that, you're too ignorant of mathematics to be performing your job.

So why do you know more about the Constitution than John Roberts?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Better DEAD than Red and those seem to be the only two options now.

Do you think you might be overreacting a tad? This is going to have little or no effect on your life.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

But my point is, here's a bunch of people who have been studying law and the Constitution for years and years.

Irrelevant. Demonstrable incompetence is demonstrable incompetence.

I don't care if you have a PHD in Mathematics from MIT. If someone else says 2+2=5, and you give your stamp of approval to that, you're too ignorant of mathematics to be performing your job.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

My take on things based on limited knowledge that may be incorrect.

The individual mandate was ruled as a tax, and a tax cannot be struck down as unconstitutional until it is implemented (which it has not yet). .
No AIA (the tax implementation thingy) has been ruled to not apply by the chief justice. The language in the act as a 'penalty' was sufficient for AIA to not apply, however it was still found valid under congress power to tax.

Confusing no.
Still reading the decision, so I may have been mistaken.

Part of the law mandated that states expand Medicaid. I believe that this was struck down as unconstitutional.
yes roughly correct,
Because THE CHIEF JUSTICE finds the withholding—not the granting—of federal funds incompatible with the Spending Clause, Congress’ extension of Medicaid remains available to any State that affirms its willingness to participate.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives

So I wonder what can't be a "tax" now. It seems to me like any time the government wishes to coerce an act (such as a purchase), all they have to do is put a steep fine on it and claim the fine is a "tax."

So what am I missing here? What's the distinction?

That's about right, and it has always been the case.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

so tell us what those like you are gonna do about it

First thing will be renouncing my US Citizenship. Then I have other plans on what to do....

Not by a million miles. In fact they estimate that very few people will be affected by the penalty -- which is what happened in MA.

I LIVE IN MASSACHUSETTS. The Mass system runs a massive defecit every single year. It forces people who cannot afford insurance to purchase it, or face a fine on your taxes. Many of those people would actually be better off paying the fine than the premiums that they pay.

Well, you can do that, but then you'll need a green card to work here. Or you can be an illegal immigrant, that'd be an interesting twist.

Why the hell should I keep working? What is the point? So I can pay taxes for even more crap I don't agree with and don't believe my relatives who fought and died to found this country believed in either? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

If you don't want to be called a racist, don't say racist things. I judge you on your words.

Check out post no. 125. Don't violate the TOS by attacking me personally. That isn't permitted.

Big victory for the African American Underclass. Huge defeat for the White Middle Class. The former group moves up the food chain and the latter group moves down the food chain.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives

So I wonder what can't be a "tax" now. It seems to me like any time the government wishes to coerce an act (such as a purchase), all they have to do is put a steep fine on it and claim the fine is a "tax."

So what am I missing here? What's the distinction?

It's all semantics. When Tim Pawlenty was Governor of Minnesota he raised taxes on cigarettes. But he couldn't call it a "tax" because that would make Grover Norquist mad, so it was a "health impact fee." But it was a tax.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

From Scotusblog

10:52
Lyle: The rejection of the Commerce Clause and Nec. and Proper Clause should be understood as a major blow to Congress's authority to pass social welfare laws. Using the tax code -- especially in the current political environment -- to promote social welfare is going to be a very chancy proposition.
10:53
Lyle: Interesting, at least to scholars, that while the mandate and its attached penalty are a tax for purposes of its constitutionality, but not for the Anti-Injunction Act. If it were a tax for AIA purposes, this case would not have been decided re the mandate.

Indeed this is a decision that has a little bit for everything, i guess.

Confusing nonetheless

It is a tax, no it isn't. John Stewart would go nuts over this.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Do you think you might be overreacting a tad? This is going to have little or no effect on your life.

IF IT TAKES EVEN A SINGLE ****ING PENNY MORE OUT OF MY PAYCHECK (which it will) THEN IT HAS HAD TOO MUCH OF AN EFFECT ON MY LIFE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

No it's not. It definitely is not my country and that's why I just sent an email to the offices of both Massachusetts Senators asking how one goes about renouncing one's US Citizenship.

You bring me great enjoyment. I am absolutely loving this.

 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

I LIVE IN MASSACHUSETTS. The Mass system runs a massive defecit every single year. It forces people who cannot afford insurance to purchase it, or face a fine on your taxes. Many of those people would actually be better off paying the fine than the premiums that they pay.

The MA plan is very popular in MA. You have near universal coverage and very few people actually pay the penalty to avoid buying insurance.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Check out post no. 125. Don't violate the TOS by attacking me personally. That isn't permitted.

Big victory for the African American Underclass. Huge defeat for the White Middle Class. The former group moves up the food chain and the latter group moves down the food chain.

Fine, you're not a racist, but your ideas are.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Why the hell should I keep working? What is the point? So I can pay taxes for even more crap I don't agree with and don't believe my relatives who fought and died to found this country believed in either? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!
Singapore is nice this time of year....
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Conquered? I didn't conquer anything. I don't even support Obamacare. I'm simply someone making a mature decision to keep on living my life.

"Growing up" - you should try it. Deal with it.

Grown ups don't feel it necessary to make personal attacks on other members of this forum.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Sometimes, right is just right and wrong is just plain wrong. I have always been of the opinion that a sitting SC judge should be above political ideology and just stick with the letters of the law without taking the liberty of intrepretation to their particular ideology or political leanings.

Hazlnut was asserting that pro-mandate was the conservative position. not the Constitutional one. the Court may have held the tax as Constitutional, that doesn't make it the "conservative" position.

But I do find it entertaining that had Roberts decided differently you would have accused him of "sucking up to the GOP".
 
Last edited:
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

This is a major victory for African America because the Black Underclass will now be the major beneficiary of the transfer of wealth from the White Middle Class. This helps Black people at the expense of White people.

such a racist post
you refuse to recognize that the white, hispanic, asian, Native American underclass will also benefit from the availability of health care
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

It is NOT 2014 yet. What congress adds as a "tax" they can just as easily repeal. This is nonsense and unpopular, so it is not likely to remain the "law of the land". I like the idea actually, of being able to buy insurance ANY TIME, even if I am sick, use the benefits and then cancel the policy immediatley after treatment. This will bankrupt the medical insurance industry in short order. ;-)

Did you like the part where the insurance company took your premiums for years and then dropped you the minute you got sick?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

IF IT TAKES EVEN A SINGLE ****ING PENNY MORE OUT OF MY PAYCHECK (which it will) THEN IT HAS HAD TOO MUCH OF AN EFFECT ON MY LIFE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!

Cool. Which country are you moving to?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

So why do you know more about the Constitution than John Roberts?

Obama voted against the confirmation of John Roberts, and now John Roberts has saved Obamacare. It's ironic isn't it?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Grown ups don't feel it necessary to make personal attacks on other members of this forum.

That's not a personal attack. Try and cry some more.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

While everyone is beginning their victory dance, you DO realize that even if you are young, relatively healthy, and dont WANT to buy insurance (or are not in a secure place financially) that now you MUST and if you dont they can penalize you...right?

Ive said all along...This isnt a bad idea...where/when implemented by the STATES. At the fed level? We have no idea how bad it is going to be financially. SO...again...

pop the cork baby.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom