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SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384, 635, 652, 758, 1205]

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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Billy the Kid said:
What's amazing about this the AARP sold the seniors down river. The AARP told the seniors they were getting a deal. But they really got the shaft. Those not eating cat food now, will be soon.
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AARP is in the INSURANCE business, just as the NRA is in the "CCW permit" training class business, thus suddenly likes the CCW training class business more than the 2nd amendment "freedom" now. The comingling of state/private interests is amazing now. AARP likes the mandate AND the cuts in Medicare since they sell more insurance to both seniors and non-seniors that way. Yes they can!
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384]

AdamT said:
That's a poor analogy because it doesn't cost you anything NOT to eat at the steak house. In contrast, if there is a tax deduction that you aren't getting, it does cost you something because your taxes have to be higher and/or government services have to be lower to pay for the deduction.

See the difference?
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That logic would follow is the government were incapable of incurring debt. However, as we all know, taxes are defined independently; just because one tax is lowered doesn't mean another is raised to compensate.

Again, it doesn't cost me anything to NOT buy an electric car. The taxes that COULD be deducted were taxes I was already obligated to pay.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
you see tens of millions of more Americans having health-insurance and pre-conditions being covered, as a bad thing?
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You're explaining the benefits. To do a fair comparison, you need to look at the costs as well. And the costs add up to more than the finances in this case (though the financial benefits themselves are enough for some to discredit this)
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
You guys can always call Ron Paul. He'll save ya.
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Yeah, we know. Ron Paul's problem is that he thinks he's speaking to people 200 years ago who would know exactly where he's coming from; instead of people who are clueless about the Constitution. He's right about a lot, but not about some things, and his approach needs work.
 
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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

rocket88 said:
Keep digging, you haven't reached the bottom yet...
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When one digs beneath the walls of a fortress those walls are undermined. It just requires digging really really deep.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

AdamT said:
No one gets something for nothing under this bill. The poorest people affected still have to pay part of their premiums.
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Sure they do, with my money.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125, 384]

Republic Now! said:
That logic would follow is the government were incapable of incurring debt. However, as we all know, taxes are defined independently; just because one tax is lowered doesn't mean another is raised to compensate.

Again, it doesn't cost me anything to NOT buy an electric car. The taxes that COULD be deducted were taxes I was already obligated to pay.
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As I'm sure you know, there is no free lunch. If a deduction is paid for by borrowing then it will eventually have to be paid for by higher taxes and/or spending cuts.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

danarhea said:
Was today's decision a defeat for Conservatives? Not necessarily, and here's why. What would definitely have been ruled Constitutional would have been to put EVERYBODY in the US under Medicare, thus giving us a system just like Canada's. Medicare is already settled law, and the only thing that would have to be done is merely changing the age from 65 to 0. Obamacare may be upon us, but it could have been a lot worse, had the Democrats pushed for a change in Medicare and won.

Conservatives should not see todays ruling as either a victory or as a defeat. It's more like a tie in a football game, which is tantamount to having to kiss your sister. Liberals should see it the same way, since if they got what they wanted, Canada's system would be America's system too. And yes, today's ruling is an ugly looking sister too. :mrgreen:
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I believe this ends the United States.

The supreme court has set the precedent that effectively means there are no more limits to the federal government's power. Private property rights were effectively ended today.

No matter who the president is the nation is doomed. The statists have won.

So what is left? I believe a revolution must now occur. I do not see any way around it now that the full blown tyranny is upon us. It is a defeat for everybody.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
you see tens of millions of more Americans having health-insurance and pre-conditions being covered, as a bad thing?
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For every ONE added SELF PAYING customer THREE are added to the TAXPAYER FUNDED "pool". If you think that this saves you money then you are either a fool, or in the poor pool.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

ttwtt78640 said:
AARP is in the INSURANCE business, just as the NRA is in the "CCW permit" training class business, thus suddenly likes the CCW training class business more than the 2nd amendment "freedom" now. The comingling of state/private interests is amazing now. AARP likes the mandate AND the cuts in Medicare since they sell more insurance to both seniors and non-seniors that way. Yes they can!
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Yup. IMO, they talked seniors into buying into this Obamacare bill, telling them everything was gonna be fine. How many of us on this board don't have an elderly parent/grandparent who's going to suffer?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Opteron said:
Mandating health insurance is like mandating that everyone carries car insurance if they drive, not like buying towels. People go to ER's all the time and don't pay.
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Interesting position. Is there a "tax" for not driving a car? Is there a situation where you could just not have to pay car insurance? Answer is yup, don't drive a car.

What you're essentially doing is equating a voluntary action like "driving a car" to living. So, I guess in a way you're right, if you don't want to pay the tax or get bloated insurance you could just kill yourself, but I guess that logic would apply to any law really.

What people neglect is that the high cost of current health care includes this ER coverage in which people are already paying for people that don't carry insurance.
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What people neglect are the alternatives to big bloated insurance that many people choose to use because they are more practical for them. No, your options aren't just buying a 400 buck a month insurance plan or leeching off the public dime.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

American said:
Yeah, we know. Ron Paul's problem is that he thinks he's speaking to people 200 years ago who would know exactly where he's coming from; instead of people who are clueless about the Constitution. He's right about a lot, but not about some things, and his approach needs work.
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I'm pretty sure those slave owning Libertarians would know where he's coming from.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

AdamT said:
Nnnnnooooo, with their money.
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Unless they can't afford it. in which case there are grants to pay for it... which is paid for by the government who is funded by.... (I'll give you a hint - the penalties will not be enough to cover the grants. not even 50%)
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

ttwtt78640 said:
For every ONE added SELF PAYING customer THREE are added to the TAXPAYER FUNDED "pool". If you think that this saves you money then you are either a fool, or in the poor pool.
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And what do you think those people were doing for healthcare before? Doing without? No, they were getting it for free at everyone else's expense. Now they will at least pick up some of the tab.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
you see tens of millions of more Americans having health-insurance and pre-conditions being covered, as a bad thing?
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I oppose anything that reduces the quality of the health care of my kith and kin. It wasn't necessary to diminish the quality of my health care in order to expand coverage for the uninsured.

This will fester and foster continuing and ongoing division. This will be a pyhrric victory for your side. You have imposed your will upon us, but have engendered bitterness that will grow and grow as the quality of healthcare diminishes.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

fredmertzz said:
Unless they can't afford it. in which case there are grants to pay for it... which is paid for by the government who is funded by.... (I'll give you a hint - the penalties will not be enough to cover the grants. not even 50%)
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What grants?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
I'm pretty sure those slave owning Libertarians would know where he's coming from.
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trolling about
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

AdamT said:
Folks at the low end of the scale will have to pay something towards their insurance, but it's subsidized on a sliding scale, with the subsidy phasing out as income rises. Would you prefer that they just get free health care?
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There is no sliding scale is there?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Thunder said:
I expect there to be little concern over this, from white old people. What are they gonna do, throw their false-teeth at the tv?
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They will vote based on their interests.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Hatuey said:
I'm pretty sure those slave owning Libertarians would know where he's coming from.
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Is that all liberal/progressives know how to do, is throw the race bomb?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Albert Di Salvo said:
I oppose anything that reduces the quality of the health care of my kith and kin. It wasn't necessary to diminish the quality of my health care in order to expand coverage for the uninsured.

This will fester and foster continuing and ongoing division. This will be a pyhrric victory for your side. You have imposed your will upon us, but have engendered bitterness that will grow and grow as the quality of healthcare diminishes.
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What in ACA do you think diminishes your health care?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

AdamT said:
No one gets something for nothing under this bill. The poorest people affected still have to pay part of their premiums.
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This doesn't make sense. If the poorest people are living off of food stamps and welfare, where are they going to get the money to pay these premiums?
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

Prof. Peabody said:
There is no sliding scale is there?
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Yes, there is. The more you make the more you pay.
 
Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives [W:125]

fredmertzz said:
Unless they can't afford it. in which case there are grants to pay for it... which is paid for by the government who is funded by.... (I'll give you a hint - the penalties will not be enough to cover the grants. not even 50%)
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Who do you think pays for it when an uninsured person goes to the emergency room and doesn't pay the bill?

In a perfect world everyone would pay for themselves, and they could all afford it happily, and it would rain champagne. It's not a perfect world. We did manage to pass a bill that does insure a large group of those that didn't previously had it which will allow many people to actually practice preventative medicine and such, which will save some money.
 
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