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Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights'[W:110]

rocket88 said:
OK....tell that to the people of Iran. The Shah was all about freedom.
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And you are thinking that the people of Iran have more freedom now than they did 40 years ago, are you?
 
AreteCourage said:
Wow...

We target SUSPECTED murderers...not always known ones. Sometimes we don't even kill the target but rather innocent people. Oh yeah, but we're "building freedom" with bombs. Total nonsense.
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I think it's safe to say that the US government does not target "suspected" terrorists for assassination. Can you name a single "suspected" terrorist who has been killed by these strikes? To my knowledge it's a pretty open/shut case as far as their involvement. Do they get it wrong sometimes and drop a bomb at the wrong time? Sure. These things do happen. Are they targeting dudes simply cause they wear turbans and speak English with funny accents? Nah dude.
 
I'm gonna wait a bit before I make the last call on the Carter auction, but it looks like he's gonna go to Hat for "mediocre". We'll see if a "better than average" bid comes in.
 
This is about Jimmy Carter f-f-f-f-fading away. Otherwise, his recommended plan is that we boycott the Olympic Games when next held in .... ummmm .... Iran.
 
Hatuey said:
I think it's safe to say that the US government does not target "suspected" terrorists for assassination. Can you name a single "suspected" terrorist who has been killed by these strikes? To my knowledge it's a pretty open/shut case as far as their involvement. Do they get it wrong sometimes and drop a bomb at the wrong time? Sure. These things do happen. Are they targeting dudes simply cause they wear turbans and speak English with funny accents? Nah dude.
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I never said they were doing that....Strong suspicion has led to attacks. The fact that "these things do happen" should be enough to drive the people to question this method. We're not at a state of declared war. We're dropping bombs over sovereign countries, and our government claims it makes us safer. It does nothing to make us safer when we incite hatred around the world.

I could only imagine a child going to school in an Arab country and the parents having to worry whether or not bombs will be dropped today because a suspected terrorists is in a suspected safehouse along the way to school.
 
Hatuey said:
Actually, I don't think that at all. However your straw man is silly and your contention that public/academic opinion polls aren't taken with real people is laughable at best.
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In a way, they aren't. Do you think the polling orgs just call random people from the phonebook (illegal in some states)? They build lists so that they can get a balance, be representative of a larger whole. But they rarely achieve it. The list ends up to be shut-ins and people who have such a large axe to grind that they want to participate. Working folks, and those busy with family and friends don't take kindly to pollsters calling.

It's very difficult for the polling orgs to put together the lists they need for respondents to various polls.
 
AreteCourage said:
The fact that "these things do happen" should be enough to drive the people to question this method.
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It is, we do. We compare it to a multitude of options and figure which will cost the least lives and satisfy other considerations. You don't know this?



Regarding Carter, the topic is always a laugh. Watch, he's gonna sell for 'mediocre'.
 
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AreteCourage said:
I never said they were doing that....
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When you say they target "suspected" terrorists, that's what I get the feeling you're trying to say. As if there is doubt to their involvement - when really, there isn't. You don't drop a bomb on somebody simply because you think they're up to no good. You drop bombs on cities and then beat yourself over how many innocents who had nothing to do with politics died unnecessarily. You don't have targeted bombing simply based on suspicion of wrongdoing.

Strong suspicion has led to attacks. The fact that "these things do happen" should be enough to drive the people to question this method. We're not at a state of declared war. We're dropping bombs over sovereign countries, and our government claims it makes us safer. It does nothing to make us safer when we incite hatred around the world.

I could only imagine a child going to school in an Arab country and the parents having to worry whether or not bombs will be dropped today because a suspected terrorists is in a suspected safehouse along the way to school.
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Okay, that's NOT what happens. Whenever you return to the real world where the US isn't dropping bombs to the point where people in some "Arab country" need to worry about being bombed, you're more than welcome to discuss this topic. However as it stands the overwhelming majority of targeted US bombings haven't been done in civilian heavy areas. Sure. Iraq did get bombed by us and some did die, however it's not as if we're carpet bombing the ****ing place.
 
clownboy said:
In a way, they aren't. Do you think the polling orgs just call random people from the phonebook (illegal in some states)? They build lists so that they can get a balance, be representative of a larger whole. But they rarely achieve it. The list ends up to be shut-ins and people who have such a large axe to grind that they want to participate. Working folks, and those busy with family and friends don't take kindly to pollsters calling.

It's very difficult for the polling orgs to put together the lists they need for respondents to various polls.
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exactly.... I have never been called, nor has anyone I have asked been called...
 
Travis007 said:
exactly.... I have never been called, nor has anyone I have asked been called...
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You ever been eaten by a bear? I haven't been either. I guess we can safely conclude that polar bears don't exist then.
 
Hatuey said:
You ever been eaten by a bear? I haven't been either. I guess we can safely conclude that polar bears don't exist then.
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No, just that they don't eat people, which is pretty true.
 
Okay, that's NOT what happens. Whenever you return to the real world where the US isn't dropping bombs to the point where people in some "Arab country" need to worry about being bombed, you're more than welcome to discuss this topic. However as it stands the overwhelming majority of targeted US bombings haven't been done in civilian heavy areas. Sure. Iraq did get bombed by us and some did die, however it's not as if we're carpet bombing the ****ing place.
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The paranoia exists. When people see stories like these:

Cable reveals US behind airstrike that killed 21 children in Yemen | The Raw Story

Study: CIA drones strikes have killed 168 children - Pakistan - Salon.com

US cluster bombs 'killed 35 women and children' - Telegraph


There are many other tales of horror that Americans rarely see or hear about. Your telling me to come back to the real world...I'm telling you to stop living in a false reality.
 
ecofarm said:
No, just that they don't eat people, which is pretty true.
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So then by the same token we can conclude pollsters simply haven't polled Travis or myself. We can't conclude that they don't interview real people. ;)
 
AreteCourage said:
The paranoia exists. When people see stories like these:

Cable reveals US behind airstrike that killed 21 children in Yemen | The Raw Story

Study: CIA drones strikes have killed 168 children - Pakistan - Salon.com

US cluster bombs 'killed 35 women and children' - Telegraph

There are many other tales of horror that Americans rarely see or hear about. Your telling me to come back to the real world...I'm telling you to stop living in a false reality.
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Every day MILLIONS of kids in the Muslim world go to school. The 99.999x% of them come home without a single problem. A few misguided airstrikes here and there is paranoia. Good. I can't expect less from the human populace. However what we're discussing is what is the real chance of a drone air strike hitting a kid in any Muslim country. The truth is that it's negligible at best.
 
Would you consider people to be part of their diet? No. In this sense, we can say that bears don't eat people.
 
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American said:
Jimmy Carter Accuses U.S. of 'Widespread Abuse of Human Rights' - Yahoo! News



Is there any question that Jimmy Carter has either an agenda or is a loon?
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Meathead said:
Well, he was never the sharpest tack anyway. He has ceaselessly sought to vindicate his failed presidency and himself by presuming to be the conscience of a nation with even less success than his presidency.
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Billy the Kid said:
I vote loon. :2razz:
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Arbo said:
I vote loon.

Now I will read the rest of the thread and probably have a good laugh at people that will defend one of the worst presidents we have ever had, showing their partisanship...
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j-mac said:
Carter has a long history of supporting terror organizations like Hamas against Israel, he has also had a history of projecting some fictitious guilt of being American.

Maybe he is sad that Obama is overtaking his crown as the Chamberlin of our times, and is trying desperately to make sure that his legacy of stupidity is carried on.

j-mac
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Billy the Kid said:
:lamo . . . . that's funny!
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sawyerloggingon said:
Carter is remembered for being an absolute failure as potus. He has slowly but surely been losing his mind from the pressure of being considered one of, if not THE worst president we ever had. Nothing he says surprises me anymore, he is just a pathetic old man lashing out at everyone as he sinks farther and farther into his black hole of despair and shame.
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Eighty Deuce said:
Jimmy Carter is running out of time to salvage his legacy. At this point, it is just to try to not be the door-mat of Presidencies. He wants that honor to be all Obama's. Jimmy is content to just be the door-sill. ;)
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Travis007 said:
In reality everyone knows Carter is the worst and a bigot.. so nice try.. Libs got nothing..
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Travis007 said:
You nailed it there... thats right. just like how you think the majority of the country is whacked out liberal ..

You Libs have nothing.. all you have is empty BS..
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Plenty 'o' personal attacks with little substance. Good posting guys!
 
Yes, Carter wasn't a good President. That doesn't invalidate his position on this. Especially if he has facts to back up what he is saying. Hell, it's at least worth an investigation.
 
ecofarm said:
Would you consider people to be part of their diet? No. In this sense, we can say that bears don't eat people.
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I don't regularly answer the phone. Again, if the premise is that pollsters don't interview real people because you or people you know haven't been polled by one, then by the same premise we can conclude that bears don't exist because neither you, I or anyone we has been eaten one. However, we know the world isn't so simple and bears do exist and they have eaten people even if you don't know any who have.
 
Hatuey said:
So then by the same token we can conclude pollsters simply haven't polled Travis or myself. We can't conclude that they don't interview real people. ;)
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Indeed, however, we do know where, increasingly, they pull their lists from. And there are plenty of folks like me who give bad data to every marketer we run across. I'm pretty sure some marketing companies now think I'm a red-headed 600lb lesbian with acne and shingles who votes straight dem ticket. Other marketers think I'm a white male with pattern baldness and a thing for trains who votes republican.

I do get calls from the polling folks. The first thing I ask them is who they think I am. Their answer helps me to understand where they're getting their lists, their data from. But in any event, the me they're talking to is not the me their data says I am.
 
Hatuey said:
You ever been eaten by a bear? I haven't been either. I guess we can safely conclude that polar bears don't exist then.
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No wonder you are a lib with that "logic"... Libs... how do they function?
 
Jimmy Carter has been trying to be significant ever since the american people dubbed him the worst president in modern history and kicked him right to the curb.
 
Hatuey said:
I don't regularly answer the phone. Again, if the premise is that pollsters don't interview real people because you or people you know haven't been polled by one, then by the same premise we can conclude that bears don't exist because neither you, I or anyone we has been eaten one. However, we know the world isn't so simple and bears do exist and they have eaten people even if you don't know any who have.
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I think he accepts the existence of the polls, but questions the method. Just as we might accept the existence of bears yet conclude that they don't eat people.
 
PeteEU said:
On this? hell no, but he has made it better.. under Bush it was far far far worse. But on their own grading scale, no American politician presently running for office deserves a first nor a second term.
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Well, when you start from a basic position that America doesn't deserve to exist as a nation because it is the very definition of evil, that's a fairly easy conclusion to reach.
 
Gardener said:
And you are thinking that the people of Iran have more freedom now than they did 40 years ago, are you?
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I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we propped up the Shah, who was not a democratically elected official, and was not a proponent of individual freedoms.

Regardless of what's there today, to say that we stand up for freedom and democracy after keeping him in power - especially after we helped him overthrow a democratically elected government - umm...not always.
 
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