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The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

ttwtt78640 said:
They, and their employer simply make one up. It has ZERO effect on the paycheck net amount.
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Not sure what you mean. It has the same effect on their paycheck that it does for everybody. All employers pay people less to cover the cost of payroll taxes.
 
mac said:
And where does it go?

Aren't you overlooking that most illegals are getting paid under the table?
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Link for that "FACT"? Many are paid directly as most are, with a W2; some are paid using a 1099 (independent contractor). I have worked with MANY illegals that ALL had "ID" yet, since there was no E-verify check, most are simply "made up".
 
teamosil said:
Not sure what you mean. It has the same effect on their paycheck that it does for everybody. All employers pay people less to cover the cost of payroll taxes.
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Exactly my point, NOBODY cares about that, they care ONLY only about "take home" pay.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Exactly my point, NOBODY cares about that, they care ONLY only about "take home" pay.
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I'm still not clear on what you mean. Can you explain your point and how you think it relates to what we're discussing?
 
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mike2810 said:
and some have used stolen SSN, hence ID theft. This just adds to the social security mess.
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True. All the more reason to do comprehensive reform.
 
AdamT said:
True. All the more reason to do comprehensive reform.
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I don't think that anyone is truly against fixing out immigration system. The only thing that Americans want is for the borders to be fixed first before we talk of what to do with those already here. Why is that not achievable?
 
j-mac said:
I don't think that anyone is truly against fixing out immigration system. The only thing that Americans want is for the borders to be fixed first before we talk of what to do with those already here. Why is that not achievable?
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It's not achievable because it's a nearly impossible task. How many years and how many billions of dollars have we spent trying to stop the importation of illegal drugs? And to what effect?
 
AdamT said:
It's not achievable because it's a nearly impossible task. How many years and how many billions of dollars have we spent trying to stop the importation of illegal drugs? And to what effect?
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and how many billions have spent on the "war on poverty"?, Can't eliminate it, its an impossilbe task. But we try
how many billions spent to improve education? We still are not the best in the world, must be impossible task, but we try.

My point to argue money has been spent and lable something as impossilbe as a reason not do something is not rational.

As far as drugs, if people would quit using the shxt, there would be no demand and little problem of import drugs.
You can't fix stupid.
 
AdamT said:
It's not achievable because it's a nearly impossible task. How many years and how many billions of dollars have we spent trying to stop the importation of illegal drugs? And to what effect?
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I don't think it is impossible at all. We have to take it as seriously as every other country in the world including our neighbor to the south. But, see demo's have a problem now in terms of immigration, and that is that they have in the past duped republicans into going along with two pronged fixes including amnesty, and security, then when the amnesty is granted we never get the security. That damaged trust.
 
j-mac said:
I don't think it is impossible at all. We have to take it as seriously as every other country in the world including our neighbor to the south. But, see demo's have a problem now in terms of immigration, and that is that they have in the past duped republicans into going along with two pronged fixes including amnesty, and security, then when the amnesty is granted we never get the security. That damaged trust.
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LOL! Would you care to review Bush's I & II stance on immigration then try telling that lie, again? The repo's are even worse. They need to keep their business buddy's in cheap labor.
 
MoSurveyor said:
LOL! Would you care to review Bush's I & II stance on immigration then try telling that lie, again? The repo's are even worse. They need to keep their business buddy's in cheap labor.
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Yes ... well.... Ahem....

Where's our longhorn friend who decries the lack of construction jobs in Texas?

Texas Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson rose nervously to urge Republicans at the state party’s convention to support a national guest-worker program for millions of undocumented residents.
Two years earlier, the party that dominates the second-most populous state had called for a crackdown on illegal immigrants.

“‘Well, here’s the end of a political career,’” Patterson said, recalling his thought as he looked over the June 8 gathering in the Fort Worth Convention Center. Instead, the delegates passed the platform with the guest-worker plan.

In Texas, the state with the second-largest illegal- immigrant population, Republicans have softened their stance toward them. The vote reflected a more pragmatic view of years past, such as when Governor Rick Perry signed a first-in-the- nation 2001 law that gave undocumented residents in-state tuition rates at public colleges. It preceded a U.S. Supreme Court ruling this week that voided most of an Arizona law cracking down on people in the country illegally.

“I’m no bleeding heart; I oppose birthright citizenship,” said Patterson, 65, whose elected office controls state lands and mineral rights. “But we need the labor.”

Job Growth

Employers in Texas, where job growth led the 10 largest U.S. states in the 12 months through March, can’t find people for jobs in industries such as construction and food service, Patterson said. The new platform put the party in line with agriculture directors in 15 states, including Texas, who are pushing for the creation of a “conditional status” for undocumented workers. The group includes Alabama, where labor shortages arose after a crackdown on illegal residents.

Texas GOP Shift May Show Way Out of Immigration Stalement - Bloomberg
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AdamT said:
Yes ... well.... Ahem....

Where's our longhorn friend who decries the lack of construction jobs in Texas?
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Alabama had problems taking in their harvest last fall, too.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Alabama had problems taking in their harvest last fall, too.
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I am impressed. You are an expert in Alabama. Thank goodness.

US unemployment dropped in the counties where most of the illegal aliens departed. In Alabama we choose citizens over illegals. Your mileage may vary.
 
haymarket said:
Many are being paid under the table. Would you support a penalty on the employer of such persons of $1,000.00 per day per worker if the employer is caught?
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I would support a fine on employers that hire illegals, for sure. I don't know what the fine should be, but at least equal to the amount paid the worker or the minimum wage equivalent for the time worked, whichever is greater.
 
MoSurveyor said:
LOL! Would you care to review Bush's I & II stance on immigration then try telling that lie, again? The repo's are even worse. They need to keep their business buddy's in cheap labor.
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Both parties (including Libertarian/Green) are the same.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Link for that "FACT"? Many are paid directly as most are, with a W2; some are paid using a 1099 (independent contractor). I have worked with MANY illegals that ALL had "ID" yet, since there was no E-verify check, most are simply "made up".
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Well, last year SSA reported 7.7 million false numbers and the estimated number of illegals in the US low estimate is 15 million and as high as 30 million. Even if the low estimate is accurate that would mean most are getting paid under the table.

Still, I hadn't considered the illegals getting paid legitimately with false IDs. It seems to me that that constitutes the govt taking advantage of illegals and in the end, the immigrant loses out. To be more clear, the immigrant is actually donating to the USG in the form of taxes that they do not ever reap the benefit on.

In a nutshell, the immigrant gets screwed in that case, and the gov gets screwed when they work under the table.
 
mac said:
Well, last year SSA reported 7.7 million false numbers and the estimated number of illegals in the US low estimate is 15 million and as high as 30 million. Even if the low estimate is accurate that would mean most are getting paid under the table.

Still, I hadn't considered the illegals getting paid legitimately with false IDs. It seems to me that that constitutes the govt taking advantage of illegals and in the end, the immigrant loses out. To be more clear, the immigrant is actually donating to the USG in the form of taxes that they do not ever reap the benefit on.

In a nutshell, the immigrant gets screwed in that case, and the gov gets screwed when they work under the table.
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We ALL get screwed by the use of illegal immigrant labor. The illegal alien worker makes 5x to 10x more (after expenses) than they could in the homeland, send a good bit of that back "home" and keep wages down for those here. It is that last part, the wage depression that makes them "so vital to our economy", as is always the argument. Even though only 2% work in agriculture, that is the "image" that is used to explain that they only take "jobs that citizens refuse to do", the great lie on the left (and right) to keep the supply of easily exploitable labor handy. The states don't complain much as they get paid federal "bribes" through education aid and other social services aid based on the number of illegals "found" in the census.

In the construction trades, assembly/production, food service and retail sales jobs these workers keep ALL labor costs WAY down; they work hard, work cheap, never ask for raises/benefits and will work in unsafe/unsanitary conditions without complaint. To assert that the illegal alien worker "loses out" is absurd, as they comapre what they get paid here "net" in a month or two, and it exceeds what they could get in a year in the homeland; that is hardly "losing out", IMHO.
 
haymarket said:
Many are being paid under the table. Would you support a penalty on the employer of such persons of $1,000.00 per day per worker if the employer is caught?
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Confiscate the employer's business property. Let's play hardball!
 
ttwtt78640 said:
We ALL get screwed by the use of illegal immigrant labor. The illegal alien worker makes 5x to 10x more (after expenses) than they could in the homeland, send a good bit of that back "home" and keep wages down for those here. It is that last part, the wage depression that makes them "so vital to our economy", as is always the argument. Even though only 2% work in agriculture, that is the "image" that is used to explain that they only take "jobs that citizens refuse to do", the great lie on the left (and right) to keep the supply of easily exploitable labor handy. The states don't complain much as they get paid federal "bribes" through education aid and other social services aid based on the number of illegals "found" in the census.

In the construction trades, assembly/production, food service and retail sales jobs these workers keep ALL labor costs WAY down; they work hard, work cheap, never ask for raises/benefits and will work in unsafe/unsanitary conditions without complaint. To assert that the illegal alien worker "loses out" is absurd, as they comapre what they get paid here "net" in a month or two, and it exceeds what they could get in a year in the homeland; that is hardly "losing out", IMHO.
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Are people playing jokes with their profile?

maybe I should change my profile to say Lean:Communist

Exploitation of cheap foreign labor 4profit is thee core economic philosophy of Libertarianism.

I could understand a Lean:Undisclosed saying that.
I could understand a Lean: Democrat saying that.
I can barely understand a Lean:Republican saying that.
But a Lean:Libertarian?
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
We ALL get screwed by the use of illegal immigrant labor. The illegal alien worker makes 5x to 10x more (after expenses) than they could in the homeland, send a good bit of that back "home" and keep wages down for those here. It is that last part, the wage depression that makes them "so vital to our economy", as is always the argument. Even though only 2% work in agriculture, that is the "image" that is used to explain that they only take "jobs that citizens refuse to do", the great lie on the left (and right) to keep the supply of easily exploitable labor handy. The states don't complain much as they get paid federal "bribes" through education aid and other social services aid based on the number of illegals "found" in the census.

In the construction trades, assembly/production, food service and retail sales jobs these workers keep ALL labor costs WAY down; they work hard, work cheap, never ask for raises/benefits and will work in unsafe/unsanitary conditions without complaint. To assert that the illegal alien worker "loses out" is absurd, as they comapre what they get paid here "net" in a month or two, and it exceeds what they could get in a year in the homeland; that is hardly "losing out", IMHO.
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Isn't keeping labor costs down a conservative dream?
 
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