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The AZ Immigration Law Has Been Decided

Basically what they did is gut the law and affirm that federal law preempts state law on immigration. A big win for Obama.
And another big loss for the legal citizens of the United States.

Why should we pay federal taxes?

So given that we have an out of control president who regularly violates the Constitution, a Legislature that says we are beyond the constitution and half of a Supreme Court that as often as not voids portions of the Constitution what choice are we being drive to other that to decide this through the force of arms?
We have gone to war over this in the past. I believe we are being driven toward a revolt unless we elect to live under a loss of freedom in an expanding tyranny. I am sorry to see this. Revolutions are rending, deadly affairs, that are vicious, destructive, and horrible.

But what other course of action remains open?
 
They were right to do this. Federal law should overrule a state law so long as the Federal law doesn't trample on state's rights according to the Constitution.

They need to do the same thing to the states that are trying to legalize marijuana.
Then maybe we need to try the one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama for dereliction of duty. He is not allowed to decide which laws he will execute and which he will not.

And for Arizona rewrite your law to punish businesses who hire illegals. Make it illegal to rent to illegals. Put teeth in it. One the first instance shut down the business for a week. On the second revoke the businesses right to do business in the state for 30 days. One the third make it one year.

Then check for compliance.
 
If you truly care about your fellow Americans, you do more than just ask the price.



See, here's the real irony of our debate. I always buy American made products if I can, even though they cost more. I don't care if it's immigrants or American citizens doing the work, but I do care if my money goes toward helping the US economy or if it goes to help the Chinese economy.

The consumer is ultimately responsible because they are shortsighted and unwilling to sacrifice for the greater good. If they did this, many of our problems would not exist.

I USED to do that too, to try to help the U.S. workers. BUT, back to my 7 1/4" circular saw example: the Rigid brand ($100, made in China, but serviced in SC) is actually quite a bit better than than the Dewalt brand ($169, made in USA), as the Rigid has a longer cord, better blade fastener, bigger storage case and has NOTHING is welded to the base plate (each part is EASILY replacable). The Dewalt saw costs more MAINLY because they chose to ADVERTISE a lot more and sponsor a NSACAR team, instead of making a better tool.

The U.S. is losing in the global competition game, IMHO, not because their workers are bad or overpaid, but becuase their management is out of touch with what the CONSUMER wants, foolishly thinking that MADE IN USA and a bunch of "brand recognition" adds will make up for lack of product improvement, while the foreign company THINKS differently and uses customer feedback and market research to build what is NEEDED. Once the two saws are placed side by side on a retail shelf, I don't CARE if I recognize the brand, I want the best saw (no Harry Homeowner junk, with safety buttons, or "wing nut" depth/angle of cut adjustments) for the least money, so I check them out carefully (its a major purchase, to me, as I expect it to last 10 years or so, and will use/abuse it a lot).

I have dropped far too many circular saws to NOT know that the depth of cut setting bar is what bends/breaks first, if it is welded to the base plate then it is EXPENSIVE (or impossible) to get fixed (actually Milwaukee tools has a super thick, hard to bend/break part on theirs, but it costs even more than the Dewalt); however if I can order a replacement depth bar for $30 then I can "anticipate" the situation and thus be prepared, so Rigid wins for me. ;-)
 
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I'll have to review this when I get a chance, but I thought most of the AZ law was AZ doing the feds job because the feds wouldn't do it... If that is the case, perhaps it's time to send a case up the courts against the feds for negligence.
Unfortunately it will end up before this same Supreme Court.

How did we get to this point where a handful of people can take away our liberty?

This has got to stop. This has got to be reversed.
 
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or could it be a political move by an opposition party in its efforts to make the President look bad?
The one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama looks bad without assistance from others.
 
I USED to do that too, to try to help the U.S. workers. BUT, back to my 7 1/4" circular saw example: the Rigid brand ($100, made in China, but serviced in SC) is actually quite a bit better than than the Dewalt brand ($169, made in USA), as the Rigid has a longer cord, better blade fastener, bigger storage case and has NOTHING is welded to the base plate (each part is EASILY replacable). The Dewalt saw costs more MAINLY because they chose to ADVERTISE a lot more and sponsor a NSACAR team, instead of making a better tool.

The U.S. is losing in the global competition game, IMHO, not because their workers are bad or overpaid, but becuase their management is out of touch with what the CONSUMER wants, foolishly thinking that MADE IN USA and a bunch of "brand recognition" adds will make up for lack of product improvement, while the foreign company THINKS differently and uses customer feedback and market research to build what is NEEDED. Once the two saws are placed side by side on a retail shelf, I don't CARE if I recognize the brand, I want the best saw (no Harry Homeowner junk, with safety buttons, or "wing nut" depth/angle of cut adjustments) for the least money, so I check them out carefully (its a major purchase, to me, as I expect it to last 10 years or so).

I have dropped far too many circular saws to NOT know that the depth of cut setting bar is what bends/breaks first, if it is welded to the base plate then it is EXPENSIVE (or impossible) to get fixed (actually Milwaukee tools has a super thick, hard to bend/break part on theirs, but it costs even more than the Dewalt); however if I can order a replacement depth bar for $30 then I can "anticipate" the situation and thus be prepared, so Rigid wins for me. ;-)

Fair enough on Rigid being better than Dewalt for a circular saw. I can't argue on that. ****, if you asked me straight up which one of those two I preferred based on the design alone, I'd have said rigid hands down for the reasons you mentioned. I have to admit that I assumed the US-made brand you were talking about was Skil (and that they were cheaper in Texas), but I just looked it up and apparently Skil stopped making saws in the US in 2007 (right when I stopped having to buy new tools each year).

You do make some good points about the management, too.
 
Yeah, I'll agree that HotAir is a "Heavily biased site", a bit more balanced report may be found here
According to the Department of Homeland Security, DHS officials in Arizona have been directed not to respond to the scene of a state or local traffic stop or a similar law enforcement encounter upon the requests from state and local police officers for assistance in enforcing immigration laws unless the individual meets DHS enforcement priorities...

This sure sounds like abandonment to me. "We ain't coming unless it suits our dictator." The one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama, says do not deport illegals because he needs the illegal votes. So they won't be deported.
 
Easy solution... massive fines on business and revoking of business permits for 2nd time offenders of having illegals. If no one is hiring, no one will come illegally.
The focus of the Alabama law is on the employers who illegally hire the illegal aliens. I have seen estimates that as many as 80,000 illegal aliens moved on to Georgia, Tennessee, and Mississippi. We have way fewer illegals today than we did one year ago. And unemployment in the county with the greatest reduction in illegals dropped for American citizens. Win-win.

So other states need to review Alabama's law and tailor it to their specific situation. When all 50 states have such laws it won't matter much that the Dictatorship on the Potomac will not fulfill its Constitutional obligations.
 
Fair enough on Rigid being better than Dewalt for a circular saw. I can't argue on that. ****, if you asked me straight up which one of those two I preferred based on the design alone, I'd have said rigid hands down for the reasons you mentioned. I have to admit that I assumed the US-made brand you were talking about was Skil (and that they were cheaper in Texas), but I just looked it up and apparently Skil stopped making saws in the US in 2007 (right when I stopped having to buy new tools each year).

You do make some good points about the management, too.

Skil is like Black and Decker (B&D) that makes 99% throw away junk for Harry Homwowner, although B&D is trying to bring out a "pro" line. But Skil/B&D do make good, and cheap, accessories like blades/bits, saw horses and tool stands/legs/tables that work quite well. The Lowe's brand, Kobalt (also imported), makes some good (but not best) tools/accessories and has some clever variations of their own. Milwaulkee tool (and its partner Delta tool) make very good U.S. tools but they are a union labor shop and thus very expensive. The Japanese and Germans make some pretty good quality tools/accessories as well. The best part of a global market is the competition, as each must try to one up the other, while still not pricing themselves out of the game. ;-)
 
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I'm not sure about that. The SCOTUS seemed to have said that revokation of the business license was OK but that fines were not. Shutting down an entire company, because it hired an illegal alien, seems to be overkill. That may put hundreds of citizens out of work, and cost the business owner millions, for the fault of a single lazy manager that failed to check ID properly. I can see shutting a company down for repeated violations, but a steep fine seems sufficient to act as a deterent.
I disagree. A fine just becomes a cost of doing business.
Revoking a business license has a marvelous way of focusing one's mind.
 
I doubt that very much. Saving $5/hour by using illegal alien labor is not worth $100K fine for each such employee found. Many companies, like Walmart, have several stores that hire independently. What if a business (or public school) had hired an illegal alien to mow their grass, would you shut that place down?
What if games are for children.

I do like the idea of shutting down public schools. We should get the government out of education either way.
 
Skil is like Black and Decker (D&B) that makes 99% throw away junk for Harry Homwowner, although B&D is trying to bring out a "pro" line. But they do make good, and cheap, accessories like blades/bits, saw horses and tool stands/legs/tables that work quite well. The Lowe's brand, Kobalt (also imported), makes some good (but not best) tools/accessories and has some clever variations of their own. Milwaulkee tool (and its partner Deltl) make very good U.S. tools but they are a union labor shop and thus very expensive. The Japanese and Germans make some pretty good quality tools/accessories as well. The best part of a global market is the competition, as each must try to one up the other, while still not pricing themselves out of the game. ;-)

Aw, come on now, Black and Decker doesn't even have 1%. I'm only talking about the Skil worm drive circular saw (aka their 1%). Not their other tools, which are crap. I once made the mistake of buying a skil drill and tossed it off of three-flat in about 10 minutes.

Milwaukee has a big service center in Niles IL (a suburb of Chicago not far from me) so I used to buy a lot of their tools, although they are expensive.
 
You know, that's a great suggestion for Arizona to send a bit of the feds' treatment back to them - no drug smuggling help. Don't house or help the DEA in any fashion. No backup from local and state LEOs. The state LEOs will still enforce state and local drug laws, but will no longer enforce, house or help federal drug enforcement. Quid pro quo.
I think the states being ****ed over by the Regime should refuse to send taxes to the feds. Stop withholding. And refuse to assist the feds until we have a regime change.
 
Obama is not King. And we see this everywhere from health care to taxes to the economy. Only an idiot thinks he's king. The court ruled here.
He has become a dictator, a tyrant. He is acting in extra-constitutional ways. He is selecting which laws he will enforce and which he will not. He, along with the courts, are acting against the American citizen. We must have regime change in the US.
 
Any other administration I would agree with you, but this one? I am not so sure anymore....Obama is effectively saying he will not enforce the border in AZ, nor lend any federal help in doing so. I thought he took an oath?
He promised fundamental transformation. We have moved from a free people to people living under a regulatory tyranny. The one term Marxist did not do this by himself. President Bush set the stage. Shame on him.
 
No, the documents aren't lying, you just don't know what the **** they are saying.

Using the bureau of labor and statistics information:

Carpenters

If you scroll down, you will see that the mean hourly wage for Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL Metropolitan Division is $25.37

Mean, meaning the average.

The fact that I have experience was enough for me to know that you didn't have a ****ing clue about what you are saying. The above is simply verification from an outside source that you are, indeed, clueless.
Um, those are wages NOW, not during the peak that you were talking about, nor are you including any benefits (health, dental..), but go ahead and tell me again how you were paying benefits, meeting the wage levels for that time and again how US workers were "lazy".

They weren't lazy, they were not attracted to what you had to offer, they found BETTER offers.
 
You are being UNBELIEVABLY dense, AND purposefully distorting things. Of course AZ is likely to have more illegal aliens of Mexican origin than the U.S. average, as they are a border state with Mexico. That is the strangest thing about "averages", is it not? Some places have WAY MORE illegal immigrants than others; perhaps you think AZ has only the average number of them?
I often wonder why those on the left despise American citizens and prefer illegal aliens. If you do a quick review it is all the usual suspects who believe allowing illegals in and allowing them to stay is a good thing. It does not matter to them that American citizens are harmed. It is especially true if the Americans who are harmed are in the bottom half of wage earners.

God I hate liberals, including those whose lean is undisclosed.
 
For those I've been debating with in this thread:

I've been thinking about the "lazy Americans" rhetoric I've been using in this thread and I realize that I owe people an apology. It was way over the top and doesn't accurately portray my views. My apologies to anyone I have offended with this over-the-top and uncalled for rhetoric.
 
The problem with your assessment is the flawed assumption that it's just illegal immigrants that drive down the cost of labor. Legal immigrants, the people I typically hired, were twice the employee for half the cost as a natural born US citizen was.

Illegal immigrants aren't the problem (and they never have been, despite decades of whining by the anti-illegal crowd), lazy Americans are the problem. Personally I'd rather deport the no-skill-having, overpriced, arrogant Natural-born citizens that are nothing more than a victim-mentality drain in the economy than the hard working, talented, workers that just happen to be here illegally.
In my opinion you raise a good point. The left has made poverty comfortable for the free-loaders. Why should they work when the American taxpayers are still willing to be forced to pay to keep free-loaders comfortable?

We need to let poverty be poverty.
 
Um, those are wages NOW, not during the peak that you were talking about, nor are you including any benefits (health, dental..), but go ahead and tell me again how you were paying benefits, meeting the wage levels for that time and again how US workers were "lazy".

**** no I wasn't paying health and dental. That **** would have priced me right out of business because nobody doing residential offered those things.

Chicago's market for residential carpentry was not defined by the union. In fact, you'd be very hard pressed to find anything residential that was union built during the boom. And you'd be hard pressed to find any company doing residential that paid more than I did. Those are facts. You don't have to acknowledge them for them to be true. You can continue to believe all of the things you made up in your head.
 
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For those I've been debating with in this thread:

I've been thinking about the "lazy Americans" rhetoric I've been using in this thread and I realize that I owe people an apology. It was way over the top and doesn't accurately portray my views. My apologies to anyone I have offended with this over-the-top and uncalled for rhetoric.

Your main point is valid: overriding reason construction-related work is sucking wind is the real estate bust and not illegal immigration. What we should be doing to fix it is not to waste time and money on the fools errand of trying to hermetically seal the border, but rather to invest in major infrastructure repair which is sorely needed and which can be financed virtually for free. It is a huge demand and there is a huge supply of ready labor that is withering on the vine. It will only be more expensive to do the work going forward.
 
Your main point is valid: overriding reason construction-related work is sucking wind is the real estate bust and not illegal immigration. What we should be doing to fix it is not to waste time and money on the fools errand of trying to hermetically seal the border, but rather to invest in major infrastructure repair which is sorely needed and which can be financed virtually for free. It is a huge demand and there is a huge supply of ready labor that is withering on the vine. It will only be more expensive to do the work going forward.

The main problem with those government jobs doing infrastructure work is that they always get handed out to no-bid union contractors with political connections, at least here in Chicago that's how it works. The guys at the top make insane amounts because there's no competition, while the workers take on all the risk. Sure they'd get a lot of the unemployed union guys out working, but since they'd be going to outfits that have been clipping along on similar jobs anyway, it won't be as many people as you would think.
 
In my opinion you raise a good point. The left has made poverty comfortable for the free-loaders. Why should they work when the American taxpayers are still willing to be forced to pay to keep free-loaders comfortable?

We need to let poverty be poverty.

Have you ever been so broke you weren't sure when you were going to eat? "poverty comfortable for the free-loaders" is complete and utter crap!

Are there "free-loaders"? Of course. Are the vast majority of Americans who are only surviving because of various welfare and charitable efforts all "free-loaders"? NO


"let poverty be poverty" Misterveritis writes, I wonder if he has read Tyler Cowen's 'justifications for abolishing all government-funded health care
We need to accept the principle that sometimes poor people will die just because they are poor.
 
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