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Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

If you don't even know that, why are you on this thread?

Do you know, for example, that a border guard was killed with one of these weapons?
Ah. I know that is lie. What else do you know that is false?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

Your argument makes no sense to me. Arrests and recoveries have already been proven (with photos even). You seem to be the only one talking about "accident", "error in judgement" or "mistake". Therefore I will leave you to argue with yourself. Have a nice day :)

How many arrests and recoveries?

http://www.justice.gov/usao/az/press_releases/2011/Fast_Furious_Map_ATF.pdf

US - 372
Mexico - 195

So 433 or so guns just running lose is not a mistake?

You have to be joking.

Obama should have had the balls to ditch this asshole years ago.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

How many arrests and recoveries?

http://www.justice.gov/usao/az/press_releases/2011/Fast_Furious_Map_ATF.pdf

US - 372
Mexico - 195

So 433 or so guns just running lose is not a mistake? You have to be joking.
It is your strawman that is pulling your leg. The poster I was trying to debate was claiming NO arrests and NO recoveries. His tune changed, so I switched to a different channel.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

QUOTE=mtlhdtodd

And why don't got and look at the stark differences between the two.

According to Emails obtained by The AP in Oct, of 2011, the only difference between the two was the name;it was operated outta the same office. In 2006 it was called “Operation Wide Receiver”. They started out with 200 weapons, of which they can account for only 12 reaching Mexico.priming a pump for future incompetence.

It was flawed and stopped as soon as it was realized the tracking EVEN WITH COOPERATION OF MEXICO LAW ENFORCEMENT (which FnF did not do) was impossible.

Then why doesn't the felon conducting the witchhunt look at the Documents and emails relating to the 2007 case that was made available months ago to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee?Surely the felon has that info available to him.

Like i said its a witchhunt,more than likely hatched at the Koch brothers Rancho Mirage and carried out by the felon leading the committee.:2wave:
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

Your argument makes no sense to me. Arrests and recoveries have already been proven (with photos even). You seem to be the only one talking about "accident", "error in judgement" or "mistake". Therefore I will leave you to argue with yourself. Have a nice day :)

Some F&F arrest links:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/jaime-avila-jr-pleads-guilty_n_1408035.html

Fast and Furious: Primary Target Arrested and Released in 2010 | Conservative News, Views & Books

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/208265-holder-signals-imminent-arrests-in-fast-and-furious-murder

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ble-cause-to-arrest-fast-and-furious-suspect/

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/02/mexico-arrests-fast-and-furious-gun-smuggler.html
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

It is your strawman that is pulling your leg. The poster I was trying to debate was claiming NO arrests and NO recoveries. His tune changed, so I switched to a different channel.

Please, do you honestly beleive that over 2,000 guns, their serial numbers all carefully logged, all of a sudden just "walked" without any arrests or recovery of the guns? Maybe 50 in a single botched delivery, but not over 2,000 guns, sold over several months, from multiple sales locations and in multiple states, that is WAY beyond the realm of an "accident", "error in judgement" or "mistake" .

It actually appears that was not the argument he was making.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Ah. I know that is lie. What else do you know that is false?

Your sense of reality.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Evidence of what?

Or if that question is not clear,

What kind of evidence? What crime will this purported evidence prove?

Since you don't seem to keep up:

"Attorney General Eric Holder's refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama's assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the American people the truth. Our son, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, was killed by members of a Mexican drug cartel armed with weapons from this failed Justice Department gun trafficking investigation. For more than 18 months we have been asking our federal government for justice and accountability. The documents sought by the House Oversight Committee and associated with Operation Fast and Furious should be produced and turned over to the committee. Our son lost his life protecting this nation, and it is very disappointing that we are now faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting themselves rather than revealing the truth behind Operation Fast and Furious."

Read more: Brian Terry's family releases statement on Obama's executive privilege assertion | Fox News
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

I see. You won't know if there's any evidence until you get all the evidence. And I suppose you wont know what crime has been committed until you get all the evidence.

Of course there is always the crime of not producing all the evidence. Even if there isn't any. It's all so clear now . . . . .

Yeppers, you've just described an investigation. Try withholding evidence from the police in an investigation.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Ah. I know that is lie. What else do you know that is false?

Apparently you need to be brought up to speed also.

Attorney General Eric Holder "sorry" for Terry family loss - CBS News Investigates - CBS News
3 more murders linked to Gunwalker - CBS News Investigates - CBS News
Second gun used in ICE agent murder linked to ATF undercover operation - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

You can dance around this all you want but this is not going away and Holder should be in jail. No amount obfuscation by the vocal sycophants is going to change this.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

It is your strawman that is pulling your leg. The poster I was trying to debate was claiming NO arrests and NO recoveries. His tune changed, so I switched to a different channel.

How many arrests BEFORE the F&F lid was blown off? Sure once the lights come on then you scamble for cover, make some quickie arrests for show, I am trying to find the arrests BEFORE the cat was out of the bag. Can you help with that?
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

It actually appears that was not the argument he was making.
You quoted his post #295. He first attracted my attention with this:

WHO authorized fast & fuzzy and WHY. Why did about 2,000 guns, their serial numbers carefully logged by federal agents, get sold to KNOWN cartel straw buyers and then suddenly "disappear", with NO arrests or recovery of the weapons? "Whoopsie", just won't cut it any more. Hmm...

When proven to be in error, he changed his tune with the post you quote.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Yeppers, you've just described an investigation. Try withholding evidence from the police in an investigation.
What crime are the police investigating?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Μολὼν λαβέ;1060611446 said:
Since you don't seem to keep up:
I keep up quite well. So much so, in fact, that I am way ahead of many.

What crime is the Terry family accusing Holder of?

This simple question is apparently stumping the right.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Apparently you need to be brought up to speed also.

Attorney General Eric Holder "sorry" for Terry family loss - CBS News Investigates - CBS News
3 more murders linked to Gunwalker - CBS News Investigates - CBS News
Second gun used in ICE agent murder linked to ATF undercover operation - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

You can dance around this all you want but this is not going away and Holder should be in jail. No amount obfuscation by the vocal sycophants is going to change this.
Do any of your links substantiate the debunked claim that a F and F weapon killed Agent Terry?

If not, aren't you the one swaying to the right wing music?

What crime is Holder alleged to have committed?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

I keep up quite well. So much so, in fact, that I am way ahead of many.

What crime is the Terry family accusing Holder of?

This simple question is apparently stumping the right.

Perhaps you should ask the Terry family.... Contempt of Congress so far is what's on the table... If found guilty and if it goes to sentencing (a miracle) it would carry a possible penalty of up to 1 year in prison and a very modest fine of between around $1,000. Perhaps there's yet more to be found, but so far - that it. Real stumper there Karl... :lamo

But let's face it... getting Holder on a contempt charge after Obama has injected himself into the process with the executive privelege is just fuel for the GOP. Now they have the big fish to investigate in an election year. Much hay will be made ... prison time is nothing compared to the Fast & Furious debacle that continues to pay dividends to the Republicans.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

Bigger article coming as this just happened.

i find it amazing how this administration is avoiding the government process to investigate the fast and furious debacle. Given this move, I am curious as to the opinions of others on this matter.

The "government process to investigate the fast and furious debacle" is going on unimpaired. This political grandstanding circus the House Republicans are doing is just political, it isn't the actual investigation. The actual investigation is being conducted be professionals who have the security clearance to see that kind of stuff.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

How many arrests BEFORE the F&F lid was blown off? Sure once the lights come on then you scamble for cover, make some quickie arrests for show, I am trying to find the arrests BEFORE the cat was out of the bag. Can you help with that?
Out of curiosity, just how heavy is that goalpost?

WHO authorized fast & fuzzy and WHY. Why did about 2,000 guns, their serial numbers carefully logged by federal agents, get sold to KNOWN cartel straw buyers and then suddenly "disappear", with NO arrests or recovery of the weapons? "Whoopsie", just won't cut it any more. Hmm...

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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Perhaps you should ask the Terry family....
Why would I do that? Are they lawyers? Prosecutors?

Contempt of Congress so far is what's on the table...
For committing what F and F crime?

Why is Issa investigating this? What crime is alleged to have taken place? And by whom?

But let's face it... getting Holder on a contempt charge after Obama has injected himself into the process with the executive privelege is just fuel for the GOP. Now they have the big fish to investigate in an election year. Much hay will be made ... prison time is nothing compared to the Fast & Furious debacle that continues to pay dividends to the Republicans.
Oh, I agree completely on that one -- the GOP is having a major Viagra moment today, which simply proves that it is all a partisan witch hunt with no basis in rational thought, which also serves to denigrate Agent Terry's death while the right uses his family as sad political pawns. I doubt any instance can be found of politicians stooping so low as the Tea-influenced/wagged GOP has on this one since the McCarthy era (whom many current day conservatives champion, so that kinda figures).
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Why would I do that? Are they lawyers? Prosecutors?


For committing what F and F crime?

Why is Issa investigating this? What crime is alleged to have taken place? And by whom?


Oh, I agree completely on that one -- the GOP is having a major Viagra moment today, which simply proves that it is all a partisan witch hunt with no basis in rational thought, which also serves to denigrate Agent Terry's death while the right uses his family as sad political pawns. I doubt any instance can be found of politicians stooping so low since the McCarthy era (whom many current day conservatives champion, so that kinda figures).

That is exactly what they are trying figure out. One of our own was murdered by guns that our government supplied. There is no answers to who, or why this happened, unless of course you can tell us. Please do. Or do you even care who or why this happened?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

Next year. After Obama's gone. No presidential pardons for Eric.

It's unlikely that he could be convicted of anything, except by the right's kangaroo court which has already convicted him of being a Democrat. Anything he did was in an official capacity, and you can only convict on that if it's blatantly criminal.

Besides, even if Obama loses in November, he's still President until January, and is likely to pardon Holder on his way out. If there's actually a crime that was committed.

I don't think Obama's right on this, but let's get out of right-wing wet dream world, and focus on reality. He didn't commit a crime, he made a bad call on a sting operation that went South.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

It's unlikely that he could be convicted of anything, except by the right's kangaroo court which has already convicted him of being a Democrat. Anything he did was in an official capacity, and you can only convict on that if it's blatantly criminal.

Besides, even if Obama loses in November, he's still President until January, and is likely to pardon Holder on his way out. If there's actually a crime that was committed.

I don't think Obama's right on this, but let's get out of right-wing wet dream world, and focus on reality. He didn't commit a crime, he made a bad call on a sting operation that went South.

How do you know anything what you just said, what proof do you have to back up anything you said. How about lying to congress. There is a cover up of wrong doing, otherwise why not hand over the documents?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Why would I do that? Are they lawyers? Prosecutors?

Apparently you asked the question... or were you being rhetorical?

Karl said:
What crime is the Terry family accusing Holder of?


For committing what F and F crime?
You need to read up on Contempt of Congress. According to Wiki:

Wiki said:
Contempt of Congress is the act of obstructing the work of the United States Congress or one of its committees.
Apparently 16 months of stalling Congress and not complying with their subpoena's gets them a little

Karl said:
Why is Issa investigating this?
Because there are some questions about Holder's two statements which were retracted. That no one has as yet been held accountable or responsible for F&F and the illegality of the walking 1,800 weapons into Mexico without Mexico's knowledge. That no one's been held accountable for Terry's death, nor the 400+ Mexican citizens who have been killed by these weapons. That the BATF and people in charge are still working for the Government, that a few have even been promoted and moved. That no one seemed to know what was going on when it was their job to know and that they've been seemingly non-compliant when Congress asks for information, emails, letters, etc.


Karl said:
What crime is alleged to have taken place?
I answered that in my prior post.


Karl said:
And by whom?
If Holder would release the information Congress could find out. If they cannot get Holder to comply, they go after Holder. Now that Obama's in it... maybe they go after Obama. You know how this works... you go where the information leads you.


Karl said:
Oh, I agree completely on that one -- the GOP is having a major Viagra moment today, which simply proves that it is all a partisan witch hunt with no basis in rational thought, which also serves to denigrate Agent Terry's death while the right uses his family as sad political pawns. I doubt any instance can be found of politicians stooping so low as the Tea-influenced/wagged GOP has on this one since the McCarthy era (whom many current day conservatives champion, so that kinda figures).

And thanks to stupid liberal idiots in Washington... the GOP will continue to have a field day. The gift just keeps on giving... it's hilarious to watch.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

But let's face it... getting Holder on a contempt charge after Obama has injected himself into the process with the executive privelege is just fuel for the GOP. Now they have the big fish to investigate in an election year. Much hay will be made ... prison time is nothing compared to the Fast & Furious debacle that continues to pay dividends to the Republicans.

Much hay will be made in the court of public opinion, which is the one the GOP is really interested in winning anyway. They don't want an actual conviction, because it just means that Democrats will go after their AG when the time comes. Which it will, these things always come back around. It may take a few years, but they do.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

How do you know anything what you just said, what proof do you have to back up anything you said. How about lying to congress. There is a cover up of wrong doing, otherwise why not hand over the documents?

There's a cover up of something politically embarassing in an election year. Pay attention, there's one of those happening, and that is way more important to the GOP than anything they can do to Holder. They want to make hay and hope it's an issue that helps Mitt win, and that's it. That's what they care about.
 
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