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Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/226]

Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Eighty Deuce said:
If I had 80,000 pages of documents about a gun-running operation, and you were investigating me, its OK that I pick which 8000 pages for you to see, and withhold the rest ?
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If you were to speak to a lawyer that is familiar with what Congress may and may not request from the Executive branch, you would find the answer to your question would quite possibly be yes, it is OK.

The right wing argument, perpetrated especially in right wing talk media (but echoed by Republican congressmen) is based upon the Executive being legally required to give Congress any document that Congress asks for. Such a premise is, of course, incredibly ignorant. However, if the purpose of the argument is to damage the president politically, then all becomes clear (including the reason for ignorant arguments).
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

roughdraft274 said:
Personally, I don't think that Fast & Furious was created with that intention in mind. You're tip-toeing the line of conspiracy theory with talk like that. Especially when there is no evidence to support that claim.
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Well --------- actually --------- There's a link in my previous posts on just this. Is it iron clad, probably not, but with the past histories of Holder and Obummer it can't be summarily rejected either.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

jimbo said:
[...] Holder is not providing the evidence believed to exist. That is contempt.
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Evidence of what?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Karl said:
Evidence of what?
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WHO authorized fast & fuzzy and WHY. Why did about 2,000 guns, their serial numbers carefully logged by federal agents, get sold to KNOWN cartel straw buyers and then suddenly "disappear", with NO arrests or recovery of the weapons? "Whoopsie", just won't cut it any more. Hmm...
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

jimbo said:
That's the problem in a nutshell, and why it is called an investigation. The job of the investigation committee is to determine the facts. When the what is determined, we then move on to the why and who. Then, if the facts warrant further actions, the actions should be taken. If not, no harm, no fowl.

Holder is not providing the evidence believed to exist. That is contempt.
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In a real court case there are strict rules on discovery that prevent wild fishing expeditions like this one. Of course there are also many privileges that limit discovery. If a party requests documents that the other side contends are privileged, it's generally resolved by producing the documents to the court, rather than to the party seeking them, and the court determines which, if any, documents are priveleged and which, if any, should be produced. The problem with this procedure is that Issa is acting as both the prosecutor and the judge. Ultimately the DC Circuit will decide.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

AdamT said:
Of course it's unbelievable. Its a clear indication that the subpoena was wildly overbroad.
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Maybe congress should have asked only for the incriminating ones then. LOL
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Karl said:
If you were to speak to a lawyer that is familiar with what Congress may and may not request from the Executive branch, you would find the answer to your question would quite possibly be yes, it is OK.

The right wing argument is based upon the Executive being legally required to give Congress any document that Congress asks for. Such a premise is, of course, incredibly ignorant. However, if the purpose of the argument is to damage the president politically, then all becomes clear (including the reason for ignorant arguments).
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Shielding the president from "political damage" is not a sufficient reason to claim Executive Priviledge. Don't get me wrong, it's probably been used for just that purpose in the past. However, there were other, legitimate reasons given for the claim of EP.

Congress holds the purse strings, so refusing their requests generally comes with a price. Hell, if you piss them off enough they could temporary freeze the funding for the DOJ until they satisfy congress. Probably not going to happen, but this does open the door for a huge dark spot opn the president's record right before an election.

Not to mention, the congress critters who are also up for election - doing this and opposing this, makes them look like they are doing something.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Karl said:
If you were to speak to a lawyer that is familiar with what Congress may and may not request from the Executive branch, you would find the answer to your question would quite possibly be yes, it is OK.

The right wing argument, perpetrated especially in right wing talk media (but echoed by Republican congressmen) is based upon the Executive being legally required to give Congress any document that Congress asks for. Such a premise is, of course, incredibly ignorant. However, if the purpose of the argument is to damage the president politically, then all becomes clear (including the reason for ignorant arguments).
Click to expand...

WHO authorized fast & fuzzy and WHY. Why did about 2,000 guns, their serial numbers carefully logged by federal agents, get sold to KNOWN cartel straw buyers and then suddenly "disappear", with NO arrests or recovery of the weapons? "Whoopsie", just won't cut it any more. Hmm...
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Karl said:
Evidence of what?
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Evidence Holder is hiding from Congress with the help of the POTUS.

Hey, I thought Romney was the flip-flopper. :lamo

My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.

Government should be transparent. Transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their Government is doing.


BARACK OBAMA
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Transparency and Open Government | The White House
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

My question is this: Does the AG have the right to ignore a subpoena?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

That right there was one the promises he made that attracted me to the guy. Of course the moment he had our votes and attained the office, he went the other way.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

nota bene said:
My question is this: Does the AG have the right to ignore a subpoena?
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If the POTUS so orders, by invoking "executive privilege", yes, as he has little choice but to obey his boss. ;-)
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

Has the POTUS actually invoked EP in this case, or is it so far that Holder is just using the threat?
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

ttwtt78640 said:
If the POTUS so orders, by invoking "executive privilege", yes, as he has little choice but to obey his boss. ;-)
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I meant over the past several months that Holder has ignored subpoenas. Of course, he can't now. Certainly not. :roll:
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

AdamT said:
Fact is that no president in at least 30 years has gone this long before asserting the privilege.
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OK, skippy, then why stall for over a year and then invoke it? You, and I and most of the nation can see this as a smoke screen to get Holder out of the fast & fuzzy jam. It is just too much coincidence that the day of Holder/DOJ reckoning is the day of the EP decision. These morons in the DOJ were finally about to have to spill the beans, so king Obama had to call a time-out. If there was REALLY any national secuity reason or state secret involved it was clearly not just discovered today. This is just Obama using the EP out of desperation to avoid the WHO, and especially the WHY, of fast & fuzzy from being proven and made public.
 
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Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

ttwtt78640 said:
WHO authorized fast & fuzzy and WHY. Why did about 2,000 guns, their serial numbers carefully logged by federal agents, get sold to KNOWN cartel straw buyers and then suddenly "disappear", with NO arrests or recovery of the weapons? "Whoopsie", just won't cut it any more. Hmm...
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It's best to keep it a secret from the American people, otherwise it might damage the close relationship with Mexico politicians and the drug cartels.

It's all very transparent, just like he promised.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
OK, skippy, then why stall for over a year and then invoke it? You, and I and most of the nation can see this as a smoke screen to get Holder out of the fast & fuzzy jam. It is just too much coincidence that the day of Holder/DOJ reckoning is the day of the EP decision. These morons in the DOJ were finally about to have to spill the beans, so king Obama had to call a time-out. If there was REALLY any national secuity reason or state secret involved it was clearly not just discovered today. This is just Obama using the EP out of desperation to avoid the WHO, and especially the WHY, of fast & fuzzy from being proven and made public.
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Pretty obvious. They didn't want to invoke while there was still a chance Issa might come to his senses.
 
Grant said:
It's best to keep it a secret from the American people, otherwise it might damage the close relationship with Mexico politicians and the drug cartels.

It's all very transparent, just like he promised.
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Yeah, I'm sure the Mexicans would appreciate Holder turning over all kinds of documents containing sensitive intelligence about the cartels and gun runners.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

AdamT said:
Pretty obvious. They didn't want to invoke while there was still a chance Issa might come to his senses.
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Again, has he actually invoked EP or is this yet another delaying tactic? Issa isn't the only one asking for this investigation. As much as you'd like folks to move along, there's nothing to see here, it's not going to happen.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

AdamT said:
Yeah, I'm sure the Mexicans would appreciate Holder turning over all kinds of documents containing sensitive intelligence about the cartels and gun runners.
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Just as much as they appreciated being clued in about Fast and Furious in the first place.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

nota bene said:
I meant over the past several months that Holder has ignored subpoenas. Of course, he can't now. Certainly not. :roll:
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No, that is why congress is slapping Holder with contempt of congress charges. Obama can't let the WHO and WHY of fast & fuzzy be known or he is toast, because you can't excuse "mistakes" that cost a couple hundred lives by just saying "whoops". The fear of Obama is that someone in DOJ will end up saying WHO ordered them to let 2,000 guns "walk" and then asking, that WHO, just WHY that decision was made.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over Fast and Furious

ttwtt78640 said:
What? That is the entire reason for this fast & fuzzy cover-up. Obama wants NO guns sold, tighter gun sale restrictions would certainly have "prevented" these sales, as they would prevent ALL U.S. private gun sales. The gov't did NOT provide the guns, they only PREVENTED the the licensed private firearms dealers, the local, state and even other federal law enforcement officers from stopping the THOUSANDS of straw gun purchases, made by KNOWN cartel affiliated buyers, from PRIVATE gun dealers in the soutwest; they intended for people to be killed with them and THEN using that as "proof" (in the form of traceable U.S. gun serial number records) needed to call for tighter gun control laws to "fix" the problem (that they created).
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Exactly so whatever gun control there was, he lifted, so please explain to me how gun control would have prevented this from happening, when the government lifts the rules.
 
Re: Justice Dept says president has exerted executive privilege over F&F doc [W:116/2

clownboy said:
Again, has he actually invoked EP or is this yet another delaying tactic? Issa isn't the only one asking for this investigation. As much as you'd like folks to move along, there's nothing to see here, it's not going to happen.
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But it can, and likely will, be stalled until after the election, then Obama and Holder can toss out some mid-level DOJ scapegoat that will take the "fall" for making "an error in judgement", and all will be forgotten.
 
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