• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Marco Rubio says he would come to the U.S. illegally if he had to

ttwtt78640 said:
We have between 11 and 15 MILLION illegal aliens here now, plus at least twice that number in "anchor babies", unemployemnt is WAY up, and you think that we need LAXER laws? You are INSANE. For every illegal alien that is deported that has a job (trust me, that MANY do), that is one more U.S. citizen that is back to work. Do that 3.4 miilion times and we have solved much of the unemployment problem.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think we need more immigration right now. What we need to do is RATIONALLY look at how much we need and then establish WORKABLE rules to stay close to that limit. The biggest reason we have so many illegals isn't that enforcement is lacking; it's that the legal limits currently in place are ridiculously low.

Once you establish rational limits, then you will have much less resistance from the business community, which of course works to block enforcement measures, and you will have a much smaller group for enforcement authorities to target. And by bringing illegals into the system, you will also gain revenue, because legal residents must pay taxes.
 
Hicup said:
What? Not even close.. :)

More like, before we raise the speed limit to 65 we're going to force auto makers to put governors on thier engines.


Tim-
Click to expand...

Okay, so it would be like requiring governors limited to 55mph before raising the speed limit to 65mph.
 
AdamT said:
No, I don't think we need more immigration right now. What we need to do is RATIONALLY look at how much we need and then establish WORKABLE rules to stay close to that limit. The biggest reason we have so many illegals isn't that enforcement is lacking; it's that the legal limits currently in place are ridiculously low.

Once you establish rational limits, then you will have much less resistance from the business community, which of course works to block enforcement measures, and you will have a much smaller group for enforcement authorities to target. And by bringing illegals into the system, you will also gain revenue, because legal residents must pay taxes.
Click to expand...

The FIRST step in "doing it rationally" is to secure the border, the SECOND step is to deport ALL illegal aliens that can be found AND to fine/jail those that employ(ed) them and the THIRD step is to talk about a change in the rules (after we know what the REAL demand is). All the nonsense that says, the HOARDS of illegal aliens that have "self-declared" them to be at the top of the list, get ANY SPECIAL POSITIVE treatment, simply encourages more of the same (just like all such past amnesty laws did). I would take exactly the OPPOSITE approach, that ALL current illegal aliens be first allowed to self-deport, penalty free, perhaps even given a free ride FOR ONE MONTH; after that any found WILL BE deported (all property confiscated and autioned off) and NEVER allowed to reapply, giving those that did obey the law, a decent chance of success in gaining access to the American dream. I would also stop the NONSENSE of not allowing state/local LEOs not to assist in the process of identification of illegal alien SUSPECTS, by turning them over to ICE.
 
There's nothing wrong with aliens coming here illegally to work. Or, Hell, to sponge off our welfare system and deal drugs. They're doing what's best for their families.

There's something wrong with us for allowing it.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
There's nothing wrong with aliens coming here illegally to work. Or, Hell, to sponge off our welfare system and deal drugs. They're doing what's best for their families.
Click to expand...

I tend to disagree. Then again I believe more in the concept of Principles than most people do.

Viktyr Korimir said:
There's something wrong with us for allowing it.
Click to expand...

This I will agree with.
 
jamesrage said:
Then those 2/3 of the people who took that poll takes are morons.This will make our illegal immigration problem worse.
Click to expand...

No doubt. Majority concensus certainly doesn't mean it's a good idea, and in fact, probably points to the actual unworthiness of many policy ideas these days.
 
Wiggen said:
Apparently about 2/3 of America's voters disagree with you.

Obama Immigration Policy Favored 2-to-1 by Likely Voters - Bloomberg
Click to expand...

Funny, but did you even see the immigration policy question, actually asked, included in the "story"? I can ask the question a number of ways and get far different results;

1) If an illegal immigrant, age 29, is caught by ICE should they be deported?

2) If an illegal immigrant, age 29, is caught by ICE should they be deported, if they served in the U.S. military?

3) If an illegal immigrant, age 29, is caught by ICE should they be deported, if they have no criminal record?

4) If an illegal immigrant, age 29, is caught by ICE should they be deported, if they were brought here at age 15?

5) If an illegal immigrant, age 29, is caught by ICE should they be deported, if they have a criminal record?

6) If an illegal immigrant, age 31, is caught by ICE should they be deported?

7) If an illegal immigrant, age 31, is caught by ICE should they be deported, if they served in the U.S. military?

8) If an illegal immigrant, age 31, is caught by ICE should they be deported, if they have no criminal record?

9) If an illegal immigrant, age 31, is caught by ICE should they be deported, if they were brought here at age 15?

10) If an illegal immigrant, age 31, is caught by ICE should they be deported, if they have a criminal record?
 
Rubio should be deported for treason. Immigration has become an unarmed invasion of our country, enabled by the incompetent business class, which can only make the money it is addicted to by cheating its workers. Since the pre-owned government is betraying the people, it is time for us to take the law back into our own hands. If they can't stop illegals, they can't stop vigilantes either. Some day the anti-American crowd will be hanged if they keep pushing these unwanted foreigners on us.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The FIRST step in "doing it rationally" is to secure the border, the SECOND step is to deport ALL illegal aliens that can be found AND to fine/jail those that employ(ed) them and the THIRD step is to talk about a change in the rules
Click to expand...

There's nothing rational about that. First, it's never ever going to happen, and second, it's a senseless waste of time and money to force out productive workers only to allow them back in later.

As someone mentioned above, local PDs already work with ICE and there is nothing preventing anyone from calling in to report a violation.
 
AdamT said:
There's nothing rational about that. First, it's never ever going to happen, and second, it's a senseless waste of time and money to force out productive workers only to allow them back in later.

As someone mentioned above, local PDs already work with ICE and there is nothing preventing anyone from calling in to report a violation.
Click to expand...

It is very rational to adequately secure the border and kick out trespassers. What is irrational is allowing people to trespass left and right into the country at the expense of citizens who are footing the bill for these illegals.
 
Neither Republican nor Democratic administrations are willing to allocate the resources necessary to round up all illegals and send them home, or to adequately stop the flow through the southern border. nor are they willing to implement significant penalties against those who hire illegals...nor are they willing to set up a system to make sure all legal workers in the USA are verified before they get a job.

with that in mind, we might as well just do what Obama has done...and more. Weed out the criminals, and let those who are honest & hardworking stay.
 
danarhea said:
Ya' know, I like this guy. His honesty is refreshing. And I'll tell you something else. If Rubio were running at the top of the GOP ticket instead of Romney, I would give him a serious look. And he is right about common decency in dealing with immigrants. There is far too little of that right now, and we need more "Rubio" in America's political dialogue.

Article is here.
Click to expand...

Of course you would like this guy. He would come to the US illegally if he had to but he won't do anything to help those who are here already. Sounds a lot like a typical conservative to me, "I'll get mine and the hell with the rest of you"!
 
Thunder said:
Neither Republican nor Democratic administrations are willing to allocate the resources necessary to round up all illegals and send them home, or to adequately stop the flow through the southern border. nor are they willing to implement significant penalties against those who hire illegals...nor are they willing to set up a system to make sure all legal workers in the USA are verified before they get a job.

with that in mind, we might as well just do what Obama has done...and more. Weed out the criminals, and let those who are honest & hardworking stay.
Click to expand...

Boy, some people just love to talk to hear themselves talk, don't matter if they don't know what they are talking about. Obama has deported more illegals than any other president, even the cherished Bush.

And now, maybe to satisfy those of us who remember his promise, he has shifted - more power to him!

 
mertex said:
Boy, some people just love to talk to hear themselves talk, don't matter if they don't know what they are talking about. Obama has deported more illegals than any other president, even the cherished Bush....
Click to expand...

yes, I know this.
 
AdamT said:
Morons see draconian government action as the solution to every problem. In this case, of course, we need to patrol the border, but it makes no sense to shut it down completely as a precondition to liberalizing immigration laws. It's like saying, "before we raise the speed limit to 65, we need to arrest every single person who breaks the 55mph limit." Totally illogical.
Click to expand...

Your analogy is kind of silly, which is a shame, as this is one area we have fundamental agreement.

Rubio is far more pragmatic and honest on this subject than the overwhelming majority of politicians. And he is taking political risk. If I might add, not unlike Paul Ryan on the budget. These are the guys that truly reach across aisles, and find those willing to reach back.

Sowell is correct though, in that any comprehensive solution starts with a secure border. We call that "stop the bleeding", and it works with far more than Immigration.

I applaud Rubio. Bigtime.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That being said, what does Marco Rubio say about an employer that would BREAK THE LAW to hire an illegal alien, paying them less than the "customary" and prevailing wages, offering them NO other benefits and being quite assured that no complaints could be made about the working conditions? It is STILL a very good deal when compared to what the illegal alien left, yet not nearly the good deal that it COULD be, without the ILLEGAL alien's VOLUNTARY presense.

That same job would still be there, but would be filled ONLY if the pay and benefits OFFERED were attractive enough to get a citizen or LEGAL guest worker to take that job. A LEGAL guest worker CAN insist on decent pay and safe/sanitary working conditions, BEFORE relocating their family. Why should Marco Rubio get "first dibs" on a U.S. job because he (and his familiy) cuts the line? How is that fair to OUR citizens OR to his fellow countrymen who sign up for LEGAL work in the U.S.?

The law of the jungle is not "fair" as it always favors might over right. The fact that people live in very corrupt counties under poor conditions does NOT necessarily make them "head of line" candidates for U.S. immigration policy; it would be interesting to hear his "justification" for getting/giving an immigration advantage to those that simply ignore immigration law; are we to assume that these same ILLEGAL folks will not ignore many other U.S. laws as well, if it is simply deemed in their best self interest to do so?.
Click to expand...

I think the point was that a MAN (or woman) will do what they need to do for their family to survive.

When you live in a country where the vast majority of the wealth is concentrated in VERY few hands, that doesn't leave much for everybody else. We as a country do VERY LITTLE to pressure Mexico to address its patently unfair "divvy-up". On 7he ccontrary, American maquiladoras profit greatly from the desperation Mexicos economic disparity engenders.

Crossing an imaginary line to a place where one can make enough to live and send enough home to support ones family isn't a big "moral" hurdle for someone who is starving.

It says more about the system of imaginary lines than it does about the character of the individuals who cross them..
 
PrometheusBound said:
Rubio should be deported for treason. Immigration has become an unarmed invasion of our country, enabled by the incompetent business class, which can only make the money it is addicted to by cheating its workers. Since the pre-owned government is betraying the people, it is time for us to take the law back into our own hands. If they can't stop illegals, they can't stop vigilantes either. Some day the anti-American crowd will be hanged if they keep pushing these unwanted foreigners on us.
Click to expand...

'Ya know, there IS a group that refers to immigrants as an invasion:

Everyday that our government allows this Illegal Mexican Invasion to continue, our membership numbers continue to grow in the KKK.
Click to expand...

Funny how everybody believes that the Klan only hates Blacks and Jews. What they are saying now about Mexican immigrants, they once said about Irish and German immigrants too. They lost those wars, as they will also lose this one. Hatred comes with a price.
 
...well no duh. Of course he'd come to this country illegally if he had to. Every single one of you would come to this country illegally if you had to.

Far too many armchair experts out there.
 
What if...? said:
I think the point was that a MAN (or woman) will do what they need to do for their family to survive.

When you live in a country where the vast majority of the wealth is concentrated in VERY few hands, that doesn't leave much for everybody else. We as a country do VERY LITTLE to pressure Mexico to address its patently unfair "divvy-up". On 7he ccontrary, American maquiladoras profit greatly from the desperation Mexicos economic disparity engenders.

Crossing an imaginary line to a place where one can make enough to live and send enough home to support ones family isn't a big "moral" hurdle for someone who is starving.

It says more about the system of imaginary lines than it does about the character of the individuals who cross them..
Click to expand...

I like most of your post, but you have made a mis-statement of fundamentals. Wealth is not zero sum. It is not "concentrated". It exists where it is created. And it can be created anywhere, by anyone. Rubio knows this. And if you would rethink it, you might agree.
 
Last edited:
Jeezy said:
...well no duh. Of course he'd come to this country illegally if he had to. Every single one of you would come to this country illegally if you had to.

Far too many armchair experts out there.
Click to expand...

Nice to see another Conservative who, like Rubio, gets it. And will say it.
 
Last edited:
danarhea said:
Ya' know, I like this guy. His honesty is refreshing. And I'll tell you something else. If Rubio were running at the top of the GOP ticket instead of Romney, I would give him a serious look. And he is right about common decency in dealing with immigrants. There is far too little of that right now, and we need more "Rubio" in America's political dialogue.

Article is here.
Click to expand...

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with what he said. Hell, if I wasn't born here and knew the potential that anyone has here, I'd do whatever was needed to get here too. I'd think a good number of people would say the same if they were honest with themselves.

Of course what he said has nothing to do with controlling illegal immigration, which is, I'd imagine, the direction any that don't like what he said would take. But that is an approach full of fallacy.
 
Actually isn't this just politics? Obama early a few days ago talking about amnesty for illegal Mexicans. Reports then flow that the hispanic vote is certain to go to Obama.


And then days later Rubio from the Republican Party comes out and says.....

Nah, am just certain it is a coincidence.
 
What if...? said:
I think the point was that a MAN (or woman) will do what they need to do for their family to survive.

When you live in a country where the vast majority of the wealth is concentrated in VERY few hands, that doesn't leave much for everybody else. We as a country do VERY LITTLE to pressure Mexico to address its patently unfair "divvy-up". On 7he ccontrary, American maquiladoras profit greatly from the desperation Mexicos economic disparity engenders.

..
Click to expand...

Actually, since Mexico has the highest rate of obesity in the world, followed by us at a close second, I'd say that the Mexicans are surviving.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom