• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Teacher of the year is laid off.

Your Star said:
I agree with you on the last part, education should be the last thing cut. We put too little emphasis on education in this country. We are mediocre at best, and we seem to be comfortable there. Very sad, we need to improve things quickly or the cost will be enormous.
Click to expand...

Our larger problems are more difficult than teachers though. Actually, more than money as well. We don't really value education enough. I see people form other cultrue all the time making great strides here. it isn't the education; it's the effort. With great students, we're all great teachers. ;)

Now don't get me wrong. We need good teachers. And too few even enter the profession. As I've noted, I know places where police captians and retired folk are trying to fill the gap of not having anyone to teach.
 
Your Star said:
I agree with you on the last part, education should be the last thing cut. We put too little emphasis on education in this country. We are mediocre at best, and we seem to be comfortable there. Very sad, we need to improve things quickly or the cost will be enormous.
Click to expand...

California = #1 in educational spending.

Near last in test results.
 
Boo Radley said:
Our larger problems are more difficult than teachers though. Actually, more than money as well. We don't really value education enough. I see people form other cultrue all the time making great strides here. it isn't the education; it's the effort. With great students, we're all great teachers. ;)

Now don't get me wrong. We need good teachers. And too few even enter the profession. As I've noted, I know places where police captians and retired folk are trying to fill the gap of not having anyone to teach.
Click to expand...

All very true, well except for the bolded part I don't agree with that. It takes a certain person to be a great teacher, and not everyone can do it.
 
Rhapsody1447 said:
Thanks Catawba! I didn't know about that! I thought the Hope and Change ended it in June 2009.
Click to expand...

No problem. Glad I could help you learn that the effects of the greatest recession since the Great Depression extended far beyond June, 2009.
 
Rhapsody1447 said:
California = #1 in educational spending.

Near last in test results.
Click to expand...

All that means is the money is wasted on things that don't actually improve their education, it doesn't mean we should gut their funding because that won't help either.
 
Rhapsody1447 said:
California law already requires at least 40% of state spending be allocated to K-12 education. It was the the general budget's reduction in spending that caused the state to proportionally reduce educational spending.

As for less blaming and more cooperation, I don't think you'd find anyone who disagrees with you. Remember, the entire CA legislature and governorship is controlled by the Democratic party.
Click to expand...

Republican legislators have refused to let the tax vote move forward and face increasing pressure to stick to the party line. Brown said he is particularly troubled by a conservative faction within the California Republican Party that wants to label as a traitor any lawmaker who votes for the governor's plan.

"Unfortunately, now the more extreme elements of the Republican Party are about to brand any Republican legislator a terrorist and some evil being if they give the people the right to vote," Brown told reporters Tuesday before a luncheon speech to state probation officers. "And if it comes to a situation in America where letting the people vote becomes an act of terrorism, we're in a very serious situation when a major party thinks that way."

California Legislature To Vote On Governor's Budget Proposal Wednesday

Whether they hold power or not, they chose not to participate and to work against. We see this on the national level as well. Now, I am not saying democrats are much better. I am saying this is not how our leaders should govern.
 
Your Star said:
All very true, well except for the bolded part I don't agree with that. It takes a certain person to be a great teacher, and not everyone can do it.
Click to expand...

Well, that's why I added the don't get me wrong part. But a good student will learn dispite the teacher. I have no doubt about this. ;)
 
Catawba said:
No problem. Glad I could help you learn that the effects of the greatest recession since the Great Depression extended far beyond June, 2009.
Click to expand...

Right, so we can blame every problem in the country on your subjective causation of a recession that ended 4 years ago! That's a beautiful propaganda tool you've got there. Good Job!
 
Your Star said:
All that means is the money is wasted on things that don't actually improve their education, it doesn't mean we should gut their funding because that won't help either.
Click to expand...

The money is wasted on things that don't improve education, therefore we shouldn't reduce how much we spend? What?
 
Boo Radley said:
Republican legislators have refused to let the tax vote move forward and face increasing pressure to stick to the party line. Brown said he is particularly troubled by a conservative faction within the California Republican Party that wants to label as a traitor any lawmaker who votes for the governor's plan.

"Unfortunately, now the more extreme elements of the Republican Party are about to brand any Republican legislator a terrorist and some evil being if they give the people the right to vote," Brown told reporters Tuesday before a luncheon speech to state probation officers. "And if it comes to a situation in America where letting the people vote becomes an act of terrorism, we're in a very serious situation when a major party thinks that way."

California Legislature To Vote On Governor's Budget Proposal Wednesday

Whether they hold power or not, they chose not to participate and to work against. We see this on the national level as well. Now, I am not saying democrats are much better. I am saying this is not how our leaders should govern.
Click to expand...

The $15.7B deficit already assumes that the tax initiative is passed! Gov. Brown is fighting factions within his own party to reduce spending even further than what they will allow. How did you spin this to make it look like it was the Republican's fault?

Your article was from 3/15/11!!
 
Last edited:
Rhapsody1447 said:
The $15.7B deficit already assumes that the tax initiative is passed! Gov. Brown is fighting factions within his own party to reduce spending even further than what they will allow. How did you spin this to make it look like it was the Republican's fault?

Your article was from 3/15/11!!
Click to expand...

I don't believe I did. I suggested they work together. You said it was controlled by democrats. I linked the fact that republicans were not participating, and if you get an updated report, you'll find that they moved forward without republicans. I'm just saying this is not the cooperation I ask for. Leaders work and not sit doing nothing by trying to stop everything.


I also made a special point to say this: Now, I am not saying democrats are much better. I am saying this is not how our leaders should govern.
 
Rhapsody1447 said:
The money is wasted on things that don't improve education, therefore we shouldn't reduce how much we spend? What?
Click to expand...

No, we should spend wisely, and pay for what we spend. I don't think this is shocking either.
 
Rhapsody1447 said:
Right, so we can blame every problem in the country on your subjective causation of a recession that ended 4 years ago! That's a beautiful propaganda tool you've got there. Good Job!
Click to expand...

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that states are back up to income levels before the recession?
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't believe I did. I suggested they work together. You said it was controlled by democrats. I linked the fact that republicans were not participating, and if you get an updated report, you'll find that they moved forward without republicans. I'm just saying this is not the cooperation I ask for. Leaders work and not sit doing nothing by trying to stop everything.


I also made a special point to say this: Now, I am not saying democrats are much better. I am saying this is not how our leaders should govern.
Click to expand...

You don't believe you singled out Republicans. Did you not just write this?

Boo Radley said:
Republican legislators have refused to let the tax vote move forward and face increasing pressure to stick to the party line. Brown said he is particularly troubled by a conservative faction within the California Republican Party that wants to label as a traitor any lawmaker who votes for the governor's plan.
Click to expand...

From an article over a year old?

From the (recent) article:

Democrats agree with the governor on many aspects of his $91.4 billion spending plan but their plan doesn't save as much as the governor proposed. They sought to minimize the amount of cuts they have to make by slashing his proposed reserve fund from $1 billion to about $500 million.

They are urging the governor to back off from plans to cut programs that assist the poor, but Brown maintains the reductions are needed to help bring the state back to fiscal balance.

Democrats are resisting deeper cuts to the state's welfare-to-work program known as CalWORKS, child care assistance for low-income families, in-home supportive services, and eliminating Cal Grants for students who attend private colleges.

The two sides disagree on how to distribute money to local governments that once went to community redevelopment agencies. Brown also has proposed a 5 percent reduction in state worker pay that still must be negotiated with unions.
Click to expand...

You said:

Boo Radley said:
No, we should spend wisely, and pay for what we spend. I don't think this is shocking either.
Click to expand...

After Your Star said:

Your Star said:
All that means is the money is wasted on things that don't actually improve their education
Click to expand...

I agree!
 
Catawba said:
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that states are back up to income levels before the recession?
Click to expand...

Right, so your argument is: National Republicans caused the recession because of focusing on "military hegemony and wealth tax cuts" (with zero proof provided). Therefore every state's budget deficit is the fault of the Republicans from 4 years ago. Keep taking the blue pill!
 
As George Carlin said, it is called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it.
 
Last edited:
Rhapsody1447 said:
Right, so we can blame every problem in the country on your subjective causation of a recession that ended 4 years ago! That's a beautiful propaganda tool you've got there. Good Job!
Click to expand...

The recession ended four years ago! Wow, I had no idea. Let's celebrate our full employment, our increase in disposable income, and our new economic security! Why lay off teachers when the classrooms are already overflowing? Hire more, now that the recession is over. Let's re hire the laid off cops and firefighters while we're at it.
 
Prof. Peabody said:
It is a shame that the Union contracts go just by seniority. A mediocre/lousy teacher will keep their job while teacher of the year gets laid off, thanks teaches union.
Click to expand...

It's a shame you didn't read this thread before posting. That issue was already brought up, discussed, and found wanting.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Last in first out, it is the union way!
Click to expand...
Um, the article says she is a veteran teacher and her page says she's been teaching for over 10 years. What are you talking about?
 
Last edited:
ThePlayDrive said:
Um, the article says she is a veteran teacher and her page says she's been teaching for over 10 years. What are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Reading is for the mental, I mean, fundamental. I did say union, but in this case, it is ALSO state law personnel policy. A snipette from the OP source follows:

"The Sacramento City Unified School District has suffered approximately $143 million in budget cuts in recent years. School spokesperson Gabe Ross told News 10 that who gets laid off is mandated by state law and is based on seniority, not performance."

Now, is it clear to you, that seniority and NOT performance is the deal?
 
Last edited:
ThePlayDrive said:
Um, the article says she is a veteran teacher and her page says she's been teaching for over 10 years. What are you talking about?
Click to expand...

And? Why was she selected then? Union rules are first in, first out. So likely, the remaining teachers have over 10 years teaching time. Perfect example of why that concept is absolutely destructive. You fire the teacher of the year (assuming the criteria here means she really is a great teacher) for others who didn't make the cut. Based on her performance, she SHOULD be the most protected for these layoffs. In addition, why didn't the teachers and their union offer pay and benefits concessions to avoid these layoffs? Isn't a slight reduction of pay and bennies better than laying off in mass? Well, guess not for the teachers who have seniority.

Hmmm...maybe if they scrap that stupid high speed train that NO ONE will ride, they can save these teachers jobs. The CA budget is an overflow of waste and cut outs for the various left leaning special interest groups or their causes. The worst their fiscal house gets, the more the "obligation" to these interest groups/causes begin to conflict. This is a perfect example.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It's a shame you didn't read this thread before posting. That issue was already brought up, discussed, and found wanting.
Click to expand...

The POLICY is the same just that, in this case, it is STATE LAW, rather than union policy, that dictates SENIORITY, not performance, be used as THE layoff criteria. ;-)
 
Dittohead not! said:
The recession ended four years ago! Wow, I had no idea. Let's celebrate our full employment, our increase in disposable income, and our new economic security! Why lay off teachers when the classrooms are already overflowing? Hire more, now that the recession is over. Let's re hire the laid off cops and firefighters while we're at it.
Click to expand...
The recession ended over 3 years ago, that doesn't mean that state and local governments aren't experiencing budget constraints. You seem to be ignoring the technical definition of Recession and substituting your own.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom