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North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax

sawyerloggingon

sawyerloggingon

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This kind of prosperity could be going on across America if Obama wasn’t so anti fossil fuel and blue states that use so much fossil fuel wouldn’t refuse to drill in their own back yards. We could be in a boom instead of a bust, nice work left wingers


North Dakota voters will decide Tuesday on the ultimate tax revolt: abolishing the property tax altogether. A citizen-led petition drive has put the daring, all-or-nothing proposal before the voters in a state flush with tax revenue, jobs and prosperity generated by an oil boom.

North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax
 
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It would be a mistake to abolish the (local) property tax since all the local services (schools, police and fire protection for example) depend on that tax. Rather than make localities dependent on the state for money to fund local services, they should be voting to eliminate the state income taxes.
 
Diogenes said:
It would be a mistake to abolish the (local) property tax since all the local services (schools, police and fire protection for example) depend on that tax. Rather than make localities dependent on the state for money to fund local services, they should be voting to eliminate the state income taxes.
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good points... and it's what Alaska did when it found itself some prosperity... they did away with the state income tax.

I can't find any hard and fast details... we might be looking at a case where property taxes still exist in incorporated localities, but do not exist in unincorporated areas... I just don't know.



oh nevermind, i just found some details...it did include local property taxes.... and it is being reported that amendment was defeated.
 
Diogenes said:
It would be a mistake to abolish the (local) property tax since all the local services (schools, police and fire protection for example) depend on that tax. Rather than make localities dependent on the state for money to fund local services, they should be voting to eliminate the state income taxes.
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I totally agree. At first becoming a home owner a decade ago, I thought abolishing property taxes was the way to go. But, the more years that went by, and the more years to think rationally about it, I've come to realize that property taxes, which are as local of a tax as you can get, are the least evil of all of the taxes that I pay. I would much rather have my local county, township and school district run on local property taxes than, say a sales tax or income tax increase that would be distributed by the state, at their discretion, regardless of needs.
 
property taxes are infinitely more just than income taxes... so yeah, they should have shot for getting rid of income taxes

a missed opportunity for sure...
 
Okay, no emergency responders of any type for that state. No public services of any type. Clever people...not! Thank goodness my state is a "progressive" state!
 
sawyerloggingon said:
This kind of prosperity could be going on across America if Obama wasn’t so anti fossil fuel and blue states that use so much fossil fuel wouldn’t refuse to drill in their own back yards. We could be in a boom instead of a bust, nice work left wingers


North Dakota voters will decide Tuesday on the ultimate tax revolt: abolishing the property tax altogether. A citizen-led petition drive has put the daring, all-or-nothing proposal before the voters in a state flush with tax revenue, jobs and prosperity generated by an oil boom.

North Dakota voters to decide on abolishing property tax
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....still a better love story than Twilight.
 
Rosie1 said:
Okay, no emergency responders of any type for that state. No public services of any type. Clever people...not! Thank goodness my state is a "progressive" state!
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there is really no need to reach into the realm of absurdity...
 
Just had the tax assessor come by today, actually. Know what they told me? When property values go down, mill rates go up. When property values increase, mill rates go down.


Long story short, the people who depend on you tax dollars to get paid, are also the people who decide how, and how MUCH of those tax dollars to collect.

Meaning? Those folks aint ever NOT gonna get paid, not matter what sorta silken blind fold they pull over your eyes. No income tax? Fine. They'll just increase the sales tax. No propert tax? No problem, just increase the sales AND income tax. No property tax? No issue, just hike up the mill rates on property taxes.

In the end, the pound of flesh is extracted, no matter the process of extraction.
 
Thrilla said:
there is really no need to reach into the realm of absurdity...
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It's standard operating procedure. You mention cutting a tax, they jump straight to emergency services as if there's no pork that could be trimmed. They can't help but lie, it's the reason for their existence.
 
Rosie1 said:
Okay, no emergency responders of any type for that state. No public services of any type. Clever people...not! Thank goodness my state is a "progressive" state!
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You miss the point entirely, there’s a movement to abolish property tax because the state is flooded in money from sales tax . They quite literally have more money than they know what to do with. The point of the op was, wouldn’t it be nice if more states had this kind of prosperity and were making decisions on abolishing certain taxes. If they would harvest resources like ND, many states could be having this same boom which would lift the entire country out of this near depression. On the prop tax issue though, the proponents of abolishing it have an excellent slogan that makes sense, “nobody should become homeless because they can’t pay a tax”.
 
Property taxes along with income taxes are the most immoral kind.

With property taxes, we are nothing but serfs to the state who never truly own property.

Its too bad it didn't pass, but I hope the effort will continue in North Dakota and around the nation.
 
Thrilla said:
good points... and it's what Alaska did when it found itself some prosperity... they did away with the state income tax.
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Horse****. Alaska has oil. Alaska also has the largest debt/unfunded liabilities (pensions and such) vs GDP of all states and Alaska receives the most federal money per capita of all states. Alaska is the Greece of the US, not having enough income locally and depending on money transfers from the other 49 states. That is not prosperity, but living a lie in a dream world, much like the Greeks.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
You miss the point entirely, there’s a movement to abolish property tax because the state is flooded in money from sales tax . They quite literally have more money than they know what to do with. The point of the op was, wouldn’t it be nice if more states had this kind of prosperity and were making decisions on abolishing certain taxes. If they would harvest resources like ND, many states could be having this same boom which would lift the entire country out of this near depression. On the prop tax issue though, the proponents of abolishing it have an excellent slogan that makes sense, “nobody should become homeless because they can’t pay a tax”.
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While I am not absolutely sure of the current ND taxation structure, property taxes are USUALLY not a state tax, they are county/school district based local taxes. Sales and income taxes, however are TYPICALLY state taxes. If the state of ND suddenly finds itself "too rich", simply reduce the rate of the "offending" state/county tax, which can easily be raised again should the need arrise. A complete, and drastic, taxation system "overhaul" may not be the "best" answer to a new (and possibly temporary) financial situation.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
While I am not absolutely sure of the current ND taxation structure, property taxes are USUALLY not a state tax, they are county/school district based local taxes. Sales and income taxes, however are TYPICALLY state taxes. If the state of ND suddenly finds itself "too rich", simply reduce the rate of the "offending" state/county tax, which can easily be raised again should the need arrise. A complete, and drastic, taxation system "overhaul" may not be the "best" answer to a new (and possibly temporary) financial situation.
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I pay my prop tax to the state, that's who the check is written out to. In a state like ND that has more money coming in than it knows what to do with I would be for aboloshing prop taxes but apparently I am in the minority, as usual. LOL

I have always resented how the state owns my property, if I don't pay tax on it they sieze it. Complete BS if you ask me. If a man can't own his land then he owns nothing. Freedom is an illusion.
 
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The government has to spend money that benefits your property. You get protection from crime, assistance from natural disasters, roads that connect up to you, infrastructure for utilities and many other services. Its certainly more equitable to require such costs be shouldered primarily by property owners rather than making other people pay to improve your land.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
You miss the point entirely, there’s a movement to abolish property tax because the state is flooded in money from sales tax . They quite literally have more money than they know what to do with. The point of the op was, wouldn’t it be nice if more states had this kind of prosperity and were making decisions on abolishing certain taxes. If they would harvest resources like ND, many states could be having this same boom which would lift the entire country out of this near depression. On the prop tax issue though, the proponents of abolishing it have an excellent slogan that makes sense, “nobody should become homeless because they can’t pay a tax”.
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They're doing well because they're sitting on a ton of oil and gas. Not a great model for states that aren't sitting on a ton of oil and gas.
 
I don't support abolishing a tax that is designed to pay for services related to the protection and maintenance of my property and my family, which is what property taxes are largely used for.

If there is a surplus, return it to the citizens in the form of a proportional rebate.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
You miss the point entirely, there’s a movement to abolish property tax because the state is flooded in money from sales tax . They quite literally have more money than they know what to do with. The point of the op was, wouldn’t it be nice if more states had this kind of prosperity and were making decisions on abolishing certain taxes. If they would harvest resources like ND, many states could be having this same boom which would lift the entire country out of this near depression. On the prop tax issue though, the proponents of abolishing it have an excellent slogan that makes sense, “nobody should become homeless because they can’t pay a tax”.
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We don't have more money than we know what to do with. We have a massive infrastructure problem as a result of the floods and the boom. A Few years ago, I and A majority of the state voted on a measure to have a rainy day fund that would be very difficult to tap into. We have many groups that proclaim they need more funds, flood relief, road construction, a huge housing problem, and anything else you could possibly imagine that would proceed a massive economic and population shift in a state that 10 years ago was concerned its young would leave the state for better opportunities in nearly every field. Consider the fact that we have moved past our peak population of 680k that was set before the aftermath of the Great depression and decreasing farm land.Thereafter we had steadily lost population. North Dakota is changing rapidly and we are trying to keep up, and we aren't doing so hot on that front.

The property tax removal campaign was an older movement preceding the boom. This time around it just used the boom for justification. It would solve very little and would have created more havoc than it was worth and would end up harming more than making better, as the revenues would have to come through other directions that are neither gurqnteed to remain constant and could do more damage to our wallets than otherwise. Minnesota was bragging about the possibility of benefitting from North Dakota's possible move away from property taxes.
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
This kind of prosperity could be going on across America if Obama wasn’t so anti fossil fuel and blue states that use so much fossil fuel wouldn’t refuse to drill in their own back yards. We could be in a boom instead of a bust, nice work left wingers
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Like every state has oil and other natural resources. Think I'll mine for gold in my back yard.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I pay my prop tax to the state, that's who the check is written out to. In a state like ND that has more money coming in than it knows what to do with I would be for aboloshing prop taxes but apparently I am in the minority, as usual. LOL
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Yeah, you are in the minority because most property taxes are paid to the county.
 
North Dakota voters reject measure to abolish property taxes - NBC Politics

North Dakota voters on Tuesday soundly rejected a ballot measure that sought to make the oil-rich state the first to abolish property taxes, a move critics said would have undermined local governments and forced an increase in taxes overall.

The measure, which would have required state lawmakers to come up with a way to replace $812 million in lost property tax revenues for 2012 alone, was defeated by a vote of 77.5 percent to 22.5 percent, with 70 percent of precincts reporting.

A varied coalition organized opposition to the measure, including the North Dakota Chamber of Commerce, which said it was looking for "broad based" reform of personal income, corporate and sales taxes as well as property taxes.
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Yup. I was glad when it was defeated
 
Anyone who has actually been to the oil boomtowns in ND would realize that the local governments are way behind trying to create the infrastructure, emergency services, schools, housing, etc to support the boom. I have heard estimates that the boom could be twice as big in areas like Williston and Watford City if the infrastructure would be there to support it. This would just drain already struggling communities trying to cope with the huge population influx, truck traffic, spikes in crime, etc.
 
Hikertrash said:
Yeah, you are in the minority because most property taxes are paid to the county.
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Actually, the bulk of my property taxes are paid to my school district (we don't have a county-wide school district where I live, there are 16 separate school districts in my county), and a separate, much lower, property tax bill goes to the county, and another separate, even lower tax bill goes to the township. So, I have three annual property tax bills, and yes, not one of them goes to the state. I'm not calling sawyerloggingon a liar, some places do property tax collection differently, but sending real estate property taxes to the state is something I've never heard of.
 
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